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#1 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?) » 2021-02-27 11:43:05

Here is an attempt to make a summary of the whole thing, in one place:-


Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
DM: XFCE 4.12
LM: SLiM 1.3.6-5.1+devuan6

Held-back packages:


Clue within Beowulf Release Notes:

The default session manager for all desktops is logind (libpam-elogind).

Scary Fix:

$ sudo apt install libpam-elogind

The above switches the session manager from consolekit (which appears to be deprecated) to logind; these are mutually-exclusive. One driving force of this appears to be SLiM (the Login Manager that refuses to die). Switching the Session Manager also means switching the Policy Manager.

At this point everything worked fine, with the sole exception of every menu-link within the DM that required an elevation of privilege. A good example of this was Menu:System|Synaptic (the menu came up, but nothing happened when clicked). Further, all of the DM Menu:Logout options were dimmed (inaccessible) except for 'Logout' itself. A further clue was that $ sudo /usr/sbin/synaptic worked fine, plus Synaptic itself then operated in expected fashion & allowed a system update, including of the previously-withheld packages.

In for a penny, in for a pound (this removed >200 packages) (yikes):

$ sudo apt autoremove

Installing libpam-elogind had removed libsystemd0 (hurrah!), so no surprise that the system then required a restart to complete (just like Windows) (boo!):

$ sudo reboot

After restart, the whole system functioned in normal fashion. DM menu-links such as Synaptic & Logout now all work normally. All of that occurred without any further config required.

#2 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?) » 2021-02-26 23:56:50

Thank you everyone, my system seems back in order following a restart (sudo reboot). Menu synaptic + shutdown/restart, etc. dialogs now all function as normal, no extra config required. Reboot + login all functioned perfectly, again without any reconfig.

I was *very* nervous restarting, and with good reason. I've been on both local + remote machines where I've suffered outages & then had to endure hours-long manual re-config from the terminal following a restart, including grub hacking. Not fun at all.

The one helpful feature to it all this trouble was discovering that ~/.xsession-errors was >3GB. Diagnosing that is going to have to wait.

#3 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?) » 2021-02-26 17:07:00

Thanks for such a fast reply, Altoid. Thanks also for such an excellent diagnosis provided within your earlier thread. Surely the very best advice is given from those that have met the same/similar problem & fixed it.

I swallowed hard & went ahead:-

$ sudo apt install libpam-elogind
The following additional packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  consolekit libpam-ck-connector libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 libsystemd0
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0
0 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 5 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,144 kB of archives.
After this operation, 2,241 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y
dpkg: libsystemd0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 xserver-xorg-core depends on libsystemd0.
 vlc-plugin-base:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 sane-utils depends on libsystemd0.
 samba-libs:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 rsyslog depends on libsystemd0.
 rpcbind depends on libsystemd0.
 pulseaudio depends on libsystemd0.
 modemmanager depends on libsystemd0 (>= 209).
 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libpulse0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18:amd64 depends on libsystemd0.
 libapt-pkg5.0:amd64 depends on libsystemd0 (>= 221).
 irqbalance depends on libsystemd0.
 gvfs-daemons depends on libsystemd0.
 cups-daemon depends on libsystemd0.
dpkg: libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
dpkg: consolekit: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
dpkg: libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0:amd64: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:

Well, I went across just now to YouTube & I still have sound, so maybe those scary warnings meant nothing. However, I cannot login to Synaptic; I can launch it from the Terminal (root login with sudo, and those two held packages are now released, so I updated), but the Desktop menu link does not work.

We'll see what happens after a restart (quiver!), but for now many thanks, and it looks like I may have a clear system again. Hooray!

#4 Desktop and Multimedia » Packages in Synaptic that are 'Held Back' (how to fix that?) » 2021-02-26 12:41:12

Replies: 9


Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
DM: XFCE 4.12 + Slim

At some point during daily updates - possibly on upgrade to Beowolf - I found that Synaptic had auto-pinned (is 'pin' the right word?) two packages; they now show as "2 packages will be held back and not upgraded" on every update. I have zero idea why this happened. I want to sort it if at all possible, and am posting here in hope of getting some help to do that.

These are the held-back packages:

Package: libpolkit-qt-1-1
Version: 0.112.0-5

Package: libpolkit-qt5-1-1
Version: 0.112.0-5

Warning! The following may be a wrongful black-hole that I fell down during a patch of prior research:-

The research threw up virtually nothing. One of the few scraps was in this forum, within a question on problems to shutdown or reboot after update to beowulf. The Questioner was asked to show policykit related packages, and his results matched mine almost exactly (although I do NOT have any shutdown problems):-

$ dpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|elogind|policykit|polkit|libpam"
ii  consolekit                                1.2.1-8                             amd64
ii  gir1.2-polkit-1.0                         0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpam-cap:amd64                          1:2.25-2                            amd64
ii  libpam-ck-connector:amd64                 1.2.1-8                             amd64
ii  libpam-gnome-keyring:amd64                3.28.2-5                            amd64
ii  libpam-modules:amd64                      1.3.1-5                             amd64
ii  libpam-modules-bin                        1.3.1-5                             amd64
ii  libpam-runtime                            1.3.1-5                             all
ii  libpam0g:amd64                            1.3.1-5                             amd64
ii  libpolkit-agent-1-0:amd64                 0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpolkit-backend-1-0                     0.105-25+devuan8                    all
ii  libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0:amd64    0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpolkit-gobject-1-0                     0.105-25+devuan8                    all
ii  libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0:amd64    0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  libpolkit-qt-1-1:amd64                    0.112.0-5                           amd64
ii  libpolkit-qt5-1-1:amd64                   0.112.0-5                           amd64
ii  policykit-1                               0.105-25+devuan8                    amd64
ii  policykit-1-gnome                         0.105-7                             amd64

The Beowolf Release notes stated that:-

Two session management systems are available in Devuan Beowulf:

 - consolekit
 - logind (elogind and libpam-elogind)

These session managers are mutually exclusive; …

The default session manager for all desktops is logind (libpam-elogind).
Xfce and Cinnamon will work with either logind or consolekit.

The latest post by rolfie stated that switching from consolekit to logind had fixed all issues on his machine. I was willing to try that, but to do so would remove a vast amount of existing packages:-

$ sudo apt install libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0
The following additional packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  bleachbit breeze colord consolekit drkonqi kactivitymanagerd kde-runtime kde-style-qtcurve-qt5 kdelibs5-plugins kdenlive
  keditbookmarks khelpcenter khelpcenter4 kinit kio kpackagelauncherqml kpat libkf5declarative5 libkf5kcmutils5 libkf5kdegames7
  libkf5kdelibs4support5 libkf5kdelibs4support5-bin libkf5khtml-bin libkf5khtml5 libkf5newstuff5 libkf5newstuffcore5
  libkf5notifyconfig5 libkf5parts-plugins libkf5parts5 libkf5quickaddons5 libkf5xmlrpcclient5 libokular5core8 libpam-ck-connector
  libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-qt-1-1 libsystemd0 okular okular-extra-backends
  packagekit packagekit-tools policykit-1-gnome qml-module-org-kde-newstuff rtkit slim synaptic task-xfce-desktop xiccd
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0

That is way too much pain to fix this little issue (including no means to login after doing it).

Is anyone able to help, please? In particular, why did these packages get held back in the first place?

#5 Re: News & Announcements » Devuan 2.0 ASCII Release Candidate » 2018-05-17 21:42:50

boycottsystemd wrote:

I can't mount logical disk

Hi boycottsystemd. That error msg suggests that you are attempting a root operation whilst logged in as a normal user. If so, then it is probably a setup issue.

I do not think that this topic is the place for hard/software support, but here is a typical Arch-linux help-link:

#6 Re: News & Announcements » Devuan 2.0 ASCII Release Candidate » 2018-05-17 01:00:03

figdev wrote:

you are incorrect that devuan or debian "needs to" support non-free software.

you incorrectly refer to those who disagree with your position as "zealots"

Hmm. I'm sorry that you are upset by my comments.

One of my early experiences with Debian was of a thwarted install attempt with a friend due to their device employing only Wifi, no Ethernet. The installer that I used did not have any non-free software in it and, whilst their device worked to a point, it could not be updated and that left it crippled. My position, therefore, is that Debian/Devuan NEEDS to have non-free software support for the sake of such machines.

I came up through the era of software modems, which iirc never provided any Linux support. Hardware modems were orders of magnitude more expensive. If you could not afford a hardware modem you could not run Linux.

I understand and support the position of all that want to stay pure & close to the ideal of Free Software. If they then say that the installer should not offer non-free binaries (to enforce their ideals), I believe that a line has been crossed into zealotry and oppose it.

I see that you have stated that “there is nothing wrong with doing so” (including non-free software in the installer), and therefore am a little puzzled at your upset. Anyway, maybe this will help to make my previous post a little clearer.

#7 Re: News & Announcements » Devuan 2.0 ASCII Release Candidate » 2018-05-16 21:24:56

Essikario wrote:

The only very very very bad thing is the use of "contrib" and "non-free" with the default install …
Debian: only free software (good) + systemd (bad)
Devuan: proprietary software (very very very bad)

You need to persuade computer equipment manufacturers to all provide source code for their device microcode (good luck with that), or to stop using closed-source microcode devices. Whilst the mfcs continue to only provide binary blobs Devuan (and Debian) will need to support ‘non-free’ software.

Debian & Devuan are identical in their treatment of non-free sources.

Before loading Devuan Jessie on this computer I had Debian Jessie loaded. sources.list for me had “main contrib non-free” else no wifi & my grandkids would stop visiting.

You are perfectly free to howl at the moon and spit into the wind as much as you wish. However, the whole of the world uses wifi/you-name-it that requires binary blobs to be loaded as microcode. If that is not present at installation the install will fail for many & yet another potential user will tell all their friends that “Devuan is broken”.

I understand that many zealots are proud of walking around with no noses. In my opinion that is a foolish decision, and an impractical one. Nevertheless I will support to the hilt your decision to cut off your own nose to spite the closed-source manufacturers. I draw the line, however, at any demand for everyone else to get out their knives.

#8 Re: News & Announcements » Devuan 2.0 ASCII Release Candidate » 2018-05-14 02:38:09

I registered explicitly to state how happy I am with Ascii:– naturally it took ages to update, but my system is now much more sprightly in both startup & operation and a number of outstanding irritations have been fixed with the upgrades. Most excellent.

alexk@ng3:~$ neofetch
   ..,,;;;::;,..                   alexk@ng3 
           `':ddd;:,.              --------- 
                 `'dPPd:,.         OS: Devuan GNU/Linux testing/unstable x86_64 
                     `:b$$b`.      Model: 90BJ008CUK Lenovo H30-05 
                        'P$$$d`    Kernel: 4.9.0-6-amd64 
                         .$$$$$`   Uptime: 4 days, 18 hours, 38 minutes 
                         ;$$$$$P   Packages: 1999 
                      .:P$$$$$$`   Shell: bash 4.4.12 
                  .,:b$$$$$$$;'    Resolution: 1366x768 
             .,:dP$$$$$$$$b:'      DE: XFCE 
      .,:;db$$$$$$$$$$Pd'`         WM: Xfwm4 
 ,db$$$$$$$$$$$$$$b:'`             WM Theme: Default 
:$$$$$$$$$$$$b:'`                  Theme: Clearlooks-Phenix-DarkPurpy [GTK2], Adwaita [GTK3] 
 `$$$$$bd:''`                      Icons: Oxygen [GTK2], Adwaita [GTK3] 
   `'''`                           Terminal: xfce4-terminal 
                                   CPU: AMD A8-7410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics (4) @ 2.2GHz 
                                   GPU: AMD Radeon R4/R5 Graphics 
                                   Memory: 4078MB / 7403MB 

Some small changes from the upgrade advice given on … e-to-ascii (mine was a fully-updated Devuan Jessie on a 2-years-old EFI AMD64 Lenovo H30-05 A8 desktop):–

  • Ascii is one of the distributions within, so use that within sources.list
    The advice from golinux (the Administrator here) is to use as per the advice within There is no need to log into your bank when updating, so I guess that a secure connection via HTTPS is a little over the top.

  • Use “main contrib non-free” rather than just “main”, else your wifi (etc.) may not work after

# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
## package repositories
deb ascii main contrib non-free
deb ascii-updates main contrib non-free
deb ascii-security main contrib non-free
deb ascii-backports main contrib non-free
# apt-get upgrade devuan-keyring
# apt-get update
# apt-get dist-upgrade
# apt autoremove
# apt-get clean

‘apt-transport-https’ needs to be installed in order to join the rest of the human race within the 21st Century if using HTTPS rather than HTTP, but golinux has stated that HTTPS support will eventually be removed from sources.list. I originally updated using HTTPS, but after changing sources.list to the above & updating again I discovered a missing deb, so NOT using HTTPS is good advice.

There has been enough time to catch only one so far, and it is a universal rather than a Devuan-specific issue:–

${pre_exec} has been removed in v1.10.6 conky (a dumb decision, imo).

Either pin the version from Jessie, or use (eg) ${execi 65000 lsb_release -ds}.

Whilst on the subject, the Conky man page still advises using http:// (withdrawn 2016-08-03 and gives a 404). … /stations/ is a drop-in replacement, providing the identical METARs.

Many thanks to all that have worked on getting Ascii fit for release.

2018-05-17 Edit: Added neofetch output obtained after upgrade to ascii.
2018-05-15 Edit: Modifed sources.list advice following input from golinux.

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