Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

sonichy · 2024-12-24 02:53:34

https://alexxcons.github.io/blogpost_14.html
When to upgrade ?
I meet a bug:
https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/x … issues/112

Altoid · 2024-12-24 10:02:07

Hello:

sonichy wrote:

When to upgrade?

Hmmm ...
Never?

sonichy wrote:

... meet a bug:

See?

Best,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2024-12-24 10:02:22)

brocashelm · 2024-12-25 00:14:40

Hooray for Wayland integration!

Hooray for deprecating traditional UIs even more!

Hooray for even more CSD (just look at the Thunar screenshots)!

Hooray for Whisker Menu not being able to resize by hand (have to do it by X and Y variables, because it BREAKS in Wayland otherwise)!

Hooray for even more GTK3 (and soon GTK4) bloat along the way!

This was definitely what everyone asked for. So glad that Xfce is now a "modern" DE. Hip, hip, hooray! HOORAY!

P.S. Maybe it's time to fork 4.10 (at the latest). GTK2, X11, and less than 200 MB at "full load".

Altoid · 2024-12-25 00:28:59

Hello:

brocashelm wrote:

Hooray for ...

It seems that the term enshitification was coined especially this type of crap.

Unbelievable (albeit not unexpected).
The Xfce crowd have been heading towards it for the longest while.

Best,

A.

swanson · 2024-12-25 09:23:40

Really sad...

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn · 2024-12-25 10:31:01

ditto, what they said...enshittification indeed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

stopAI · 2024-12-26 13:27:50

Really sad...

Hello.
Just use lxqt. LXQT uses significantly less computer resources than xfce4. And it doesn't use gtk3 nonsense.

greenjeans · 2024-12-27 03:11:37

Ick @QT.

I really don't like having both on my system. Bad enough having gtk2, gtk3, gtk4 etc, and trying to make it all look right. Really wish stuff like VLC would stop insisting on QT.

Enshittification is a great term. I already disliked CSS, but having to deal with it in ginormous theme files has made me despise it to the nth degree.

I'm sorry, but gtk 3 is a regression, adding nothing but bloat and all for the sake of doing stupid useless crap that's just annoying rather than useful to people who use computers as a tool.

It's like elementary school kids are doing everything these days, whatever they see on cartoons and anime`, they feel the need to include that bizarre crap in computer operating systems. The themes and icons are just beyond stupid. Nobody bothers to think of whether they should do a given thing , they just do mindless crap because they can.

</old man yelling at clouds>

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn · 2024-12-27 07:06:16

@greenjeans,
very much agree with your observations and sentiments. it gets continually worse(and i don't foresee it ever getting better). i am actively searching for a completely different approach that _does_not_need_or_rely_on_anything_alphabet_apple_microsoft_redhat_etc_

any ideas from your end?

Last edited by stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn (2024-12-27 07:06:38)

Altoid · 2024-12-27 10:09:10

Hello:

greenjeans wrote:

... already disliked CSS ...

Not CSD?

Anyway, there was a really huge row about the nimplementation of CSD in Xfce a couple of years ago at the Xfce forum.
Anyone with a modicum of common sense would have taken notice.

See https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=13689
But no, and here we are.

After all these years (!), devs and maintainers at Xfce haven't managed to get a properly functioning menu editor for Xfce.
Or the only two things I miss from MS Explorer: the Send To -> Any Folder and Snap to Grid actions.
Xfce4 desktop icons still have an atavistic tendency to position themselves as they please on the desktop

It would seem that devs and maintainers at Xfce just copy the shiny flashy crap but can't get the necessary basics right.

greenjeans wrote:

... they just do mindless crap because they can.

Maybe it is the same virus that has been affecting Mozilla devs for the longest time?

greenjeans wrote:

</old man yelling at clouds>

Here's another one.

Best,

A.

stopAI · 2024-12-27 14:01:13

Really wish stuff like VLC would stop insisting on QT.

The future of the graphical environment is QT. As for GTK, its future is unclear...

stopAI · 2024-12-27 14:02:28

any ideas from your end?

Hello.
Check FLTK.

greenjeans · 2024-12-27 16:12:56

gtk2 files in Numix-Frost = 1

gtk3+ files in same theme = 281

You should see all the notes in all the themes from the theme makers complaining about gtk3, and all the extra work they have to do to work around that mess. Also complaints about Firefox are rampant.

greenjeans · 2024-12-27 23:21:51

Two things I dislike about having QT apps mixed in a gtk system:

1. More bloat, I already have a toolkit installed, having two makes no sense.
2. The interior of QT apps does not respect the system theme and it's colors. In VLC the menubar and all dropdowns and tooltips are glaring white which looks like crap in my otherwise gray-blue-black theme.

I'd be happy to use a GTK media player as soon as they make one that works with DVD menus out of the box 100%, no half-azzed attempt at it or poring through the internet looking for hacks to try and make it kinda work.

brocashelm · Yesterday 00:15:17

The great thing about Qt5 is that you can set an environmental variable to make your programs use GTK2, thus an easier time matching your preferred theme. That also includes VLC.

Simply install the package qt5-gtk2-platformtheme (add qt5ct and qt5-style-plugins if you want to tinker further). After that, open up your ~/.profile file and add export QT_QPA_PLATFORMTHEME=gtk2 to it. Save it, log out, and log back in. Pretty much any Qt5 program will look and feel more like GTK2. For example, if you used the GTK3 version of Transmission, the Qt5 version will match your GTK2 themes and icons! It's basically a lifehack to always prefer Qt5 versions over GTK3 versions whenever possible.

Firefox and its forks (e.g. LibreWolf) also allow you to change its default GTK3 filepicker to the Qt5 filepicker. Just install xdg-desktop-portal-kde, which should start automatically. Go to about:config, search for widget.use-xdg-desktop-portal.file-picker, and change 2 to 1. Try to open or save then. Pale Moon is the only "modern" GTK2 Web browser still being maintained.

CSD is an abomination. Thankfully, some GTK3 programs are merciful enough to let us disable them either through setting GTK_CSD=0 or in their options (wow, we have a choice). I know Celluloid lets you do that.

So, what do you guys propose we do? Take up on maintaining LXDE (GTK2) and add the better features from Xfce? Or do we fork Xfce 4.12 (last GTK2 release), remove all the Wayland and GTK3 dependencies, and cherry pick the features and bug fixes from upstream? Also, SpaceFM supported up to four panels, but it's been abandoned, yet it's the ONLY file manager that lets you customize everything under the sun. It is a lot of work, and many of us don't have coding experience. In which case, i3 is all we'll have to settle for in the not-so-distant future.

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn · Yesterday 06:29:00

https://dwm.suckless.org/

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn · Yesterday 08:39:54

re greenjeans comment in reply number eight(old-man-yelling-at-clouds):
...

It's like elementary school kids are doing everything these days, whatever they see on cartoons and anime`, they feel the need to include that bizarre crap in computer operating systems. The themes and icons are just beyond stupid. Nobody bothers to think of whether they should do a given thing , they just do mindless crap because they can.

...
https://phosh.mobi/posts/phosh-2024-in-retrospect/
...how about all those cool names...p...h...you...see...kay

...ugh

[emoji-shaking-fist-at-sky-while-shouting-obscenities]

_elvis_has_left_the_building_

stopAI · Yesterday 12:57:10

2. The interior of QT apps does not respect the system theme and it's colors. In VLC the menubar and all dropdowns and tooltips are glaring white which looks like crap in my otherwise gray-blue-black theme.

In newest version of Plasma these problems are solved.

greenjeans · Yesterday 16:10:11

@brocashelm, thanks! That's some cool info I didn't know about.

Sounds great and i'm sure it works for some folks, but I tried every possible way of implementing it last night and nothing worked, tried both the gtk2 and gtk3 versions and no joy. Bummer, I was really excited when I saw your post, i've literally been working my tail off for the last couple weeks trying to unify the theme in my openbox stuff....i'm sooooo close too, posting from a liveCD of the mini now, no VLC or other stuff in it obviously so not an issue, but in the maxi it's got all the regular stuff including VLC, would just really be stunning if it all conformed to the theme i've worked so hard on.

greenjeans · Yesterday 16:11:16

@ stopAI, no KDE, not in this household, lol.

greenjeans · Yesterday 16:19:53

https://phosh.mobi/posts/phosh-2024-in-retrospect/
...how about all those cool names...p...h...you...see...kay
...ugh
[emoji-shaking-fist-at-sky-while-shouting-obscenities]
_elvis_has_left_the_building_

uuggghh, i'd rather smack myself in the jimmies than look at stuff like that all day long.

Many years ago when my kids were young, and they'd watch cartoons and anime-type cartoons which were even worse, it would render them completely incapable of using their brain for anything else whatsoever. They might acknowledge words you spoke to them, but they didn't really absorb the content. I'd have to go shut the TV or computer off, and that was actually rather traumatic for 'em, almost like a hard reboot on a computer.

I became convinced that stuff is bad for you, before I made the first Vuu-do, I did a bunch of research on colors and active video imagery, and their effect on you.
Bottom line: All that stuff is hard on your eyes (strain), and hard on the brain, when watched for long periods of time. So I like my stuff nice and dark and muted without a bunch of blingy colors hopping around everywhere like a friggin' terrier trying to get your attention.

ETA: omg I hate these skinny disappearing scrollbars in FF so much. I know you can go into the about:derp and change it, but why on earth would they be the default.

Last edited by greenjeans (Yesterday 16:23:12)

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#1 2024-12-24 02:53:34

Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#2 2024-12-24 10:02:07

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#3 2024-12-25 00:14:40

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#4 2024-12-25 00:28:59

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#5 2024-12-25 09:23:40

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#6 2024-12-25 10:31:01

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#7 2024-12-26 13:27:50

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#8 2024-12-27 03:11:37

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#9 2024-12-27 07:06:16

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#10 2024-12-27 10:09:10

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#11 2024-12-27 14:01:13

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#12 2024-12-27 14:02:28

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#13 2024-12-27 16:12:56

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#14 2024-12-27 23:21:51

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#15 Yesterday 00:15:17

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#16 Yesterday 06:29:00

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#17 Yesterday 08:39:54

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#18 Yesterday 12:57:10

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#19 Yesterday 16:10:11

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

#20 Yesterday 16:11:16

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#21 Yesterday 16:19:53

Re: Xfce 4.20 released in Dec 15,2024

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