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#26 2017-06-15 20:24:03

Somewhat Reticent
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Registered: 2017-04-06
Posts: 100

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

fsmithred wrote:
Somewhat Reticent wrote:

What about converting with a live DebIan Lxde ISO to Devuan, then using refractasnapshot?

If you're going to use refractasnapshot, it would be easier to install from a devuan installer iso, configure the system how you want it, and then make the live iso from that. I could have an lxde live iso in a couple hours that way. …

Is there an LXDE option on the DVD or CD?  Is there an install ISO that is live enough to add refractasnapshot-gui?
Did I miss an LXDE Live/install ISO?
For that matter, does any of them provide a choice between wicd/network-manager and connman-ui)?
I've found no ISO with wicd/network-manager that can switch off wi-fi or re-connect (even eth/wired).

Has anyone succeeded at this?
Would it be less trouble to add LXDE to a live openbox ISO?  Or a live Xfce ISO?
Is there a recipe for converting a DebIan Live Lxde ISO?

Last edited by Somewhat Reticent (2017-06-15 20:27:59)

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#27 2017-06-15 20:54:04

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

Somewhat Reticent wrote:

Is there an LXDE option on the DVD or CD?  Is there an install ISO that is live enough to add refractasnapshot-gui?
Did I miss an LXDE Live/install ISO?

i dont understant that part!

For that matter, does any of them provide a choice between wicd/network-manager and connman-ui)?
I've found no ISO with wicd/network-manager that can switch off wi-fi or re-connect (even eth/wired).
... Has anyone succeeded at this?

if u talk about during install process, debian does and devuan but only using the original debian installer

Would it be less trouble to add LXDE to a live openbox ISO?  Or a live Xfce ISO?

obviously.. in the openbox case, but if you not based on a derivate product..
in the case of Xfce not, due the live-scrits are hardcoded to Xfce...

in that cases, debian uses a config file loccated at the root of the disc with all of these parameters.. that's why i want to use the debian way...

Is there a recipe for converting a DebIan Live Lxde ISO?

converting partially yes!, makin from zero yes..
refracta does, an debian-cd does too debian wiki has the recipes..

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#28 2017-06-15 23:01:35

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

These are the desktop choices on the installer DVD. The installer CD only has xfce. (more about that below)
FluxBB bbcode test

The installer does not give you choices for individual programs. (unless there's some way to access dselect that I haven't seen.) If you want network-manager, you need to add it after the install.

If you have both wired and wireless network hardware, the installer will ask which one you want to use if you are going to use a network mirror.

I've found no ISO with wicd/network-manager that can switch off wi-fi or re-connect (even eth/wired).

Wicd has a button that says "Switch off wifi". Are you saying it doesn't work? It also has connect/disconnect buttons for both wired and wireless connections, and I know those work.

You could probably install lxde in a live session that had openbox and then install to hard drive. There might soon be a refracta-ascii iso with openbox, lxterminal, lxpanel and a couple other small lx-somethings. That's just a few packages short of full lxde (but a lot less than task-lxde-desktop, which pulls in all the desktop applications with it.)  If you want to try it, here's a jessie with vdev iso that fits the description -
http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/file … 3_0159.iso

About that installer CD. It's not very useful. You end up with an incomplete desktop (no network manager, no browser, no word processor). Some of those packages are on the CD and you can install them with..., um, oh yeah. No synaptic. I think that's on the CD, too. So you'd have to install from terminal first.

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#29 2017-06-15 23:17:29

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

fsmithred wrote:

These are the desktop choices on the installer DVD. The installer CD only has xfce. (more about that below)
http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/misc … asksel.png

that are depends of availability of packages in the media or are hardcoded in the installer.. ?

About that installer CD. It's not very useful. You end up with an incomplete desktop (no network manager, no browser, no word processor). Some of those packages are on the CD and you can install them with..., um, oh yeah. No synaptic. I think that's on the CD, too. So you'd have to install from terminal first.

In debian the CD flavors does install complete environment.. why this minimal behavior!?


You could probably install lxde on a live iso that had openbox and then install. There might soon be a refracta-ascii iso with openbox, lxterminal, lxpanel and a couple other small lx-somethings. That's just a few packages short of full lxde (but a lot less than task-lxde-desktop, which pulls in all the desktop applications with it.)  If you want to try it, here's a jessie with vdev iso that fits the description -
http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/file … 3_0159.iso

why a so minimal incomplete set of prorams? a 700MB media are enough to a complete desktop..of course no office realted packages!

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#30 2017-06-15 23:46:30

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

I don't know enough about how the installer isos are made to answer your first question. I know the choices in tasksel are hard-coded in the source code. I don't know if tasksel adapts itself if any of those choices are not on the media, but I think it does not.

A debian install from CD-1 does not give you a full set of applications if you don't use a network mirror. Been there, done that.

The jessie-vdev iso was made for testing vdev, not to provide someone with a full system. I tried to keep it light so the download would be smaller.

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#31 2017-06-16 00:04:39

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

fsmithred wrote:

I don't know enough about how the installer isos are made to answer your first question. I know the choices in tasksel are hard-coded in the source code. I don't know if tasksel adapts itself if any of those choices are not on the media, but I think it does not..

well... i suspect that..


A debian install from CD-1 does not give you a full set of applications if you don't use a network mirror. Been there, done that.

i dont taking about comlete application set, but at least install network management and minimal need text editor, desktop  and setup environment preferences... in the case of LXDE and XFce4


The jessie-vdev iso was made for testing vdev, not to provide someone with a full system. I tried to keep it light so the download would be smaller

good job, how u made it? can post a how to in some place?

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#32 2017-06-16 00:48:33

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

You do get a basic desktop with the CD install. I guess someone decided that anyone who installs without a network connection might not need a network manager. That seems like a reasonable decision if you're trying to fit things in a limited amount of space.

For vdev:
Add the experimental repo to your sources.list

deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan experimental main
apt-get update
apt-get -t experimental install vdev

Then disable experimental (comment out the line) and apt-get update again.

I think that's how it's done now. The iso that I uploaded has an older version of vdev that was installed from deb packages that I downloaded. More info here -
https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/vdev

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#33 2017-06-16 01:11:23

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

fsmithred wrote:

anyone who installs without a network connection might not need a network manage

the problem with devuan developers are thinsk as other.. that totally false...

i have internet connections.. but i prefers disc media due interent connections are very slower..  many more countries in the world have poor performance in internet connection...

that irritate me.. why overload my precious interent connection (that are very expensive here) if i can have all locally ... also a disc media install more faster rather than a network internet based...


very interesting and very backguard compat... i think that must be included also in devuan jessie in backports..  i like that vdev exists due now udev was superset by systemd we have an alternative

in other way.. vdev has no so much activity last was a month ago.. and the average show 0 commits..  and for completion its a fork of orphaned vdev.. 

well for test and see if on a near future gets some powerup ...

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#34 2017-06-16 02:52:14

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 444

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

mckaygerhard wrote:
fsmithred wrote:

anyone who installs without a network connection might not need a network manage

the problem with devuan developers are thinsk as other.. that totally false...

I think once again, that you can blame the debian developers for that. Devuan devs have been focused on removing systemd dependencies, not on changing everything else.

i have internet connections.. but i prefers disc media due interent connections are very slower..  many more countries in the world have poor performance in internet connection...

Yes, and that use case is exactly the reason the CD is offered.

that irritate me.. why overload my precious interent connection (that are very expensive here) if i can have all locally ... also a disc media install more faster rather than a network internet based...

You're going to have to use your network one way or the other. If you install CD1, you'll need to add packages from the network (like libreoffice for instance.) Your alternative is to download the DVD and probably have everything you want locally.

Edit: Here's another option - you can buy a devuan dvd:
https://www.osdisc.com/products/devuan

Edit2: I just checked a debian-8.3-CD-1. It does have libreoffice. That's new for jessie. In wheezy and squeeze it was on CD-2. I don't know why there's a difference, and it doesn't change your options, anyway.

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#35 2017-06-16 08:55:38

FOSSuser
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From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

fsmithred wrote:

Edit2: I just checked a debian-8.3-CD-1. It does have libreoffice. That's new for jessie. In wheezy and squeeze it was on CD-2. I don't know why there's a difference, and it doesn't change your options, anyway.

That's why they have that popularity poll thing on their disks - it lets them know what their users are actually using. smile
(The most popular then goes on the CD1.)

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#36 2017-06-16 09:15:28

Somewhat Reticent
Member
Registered: 2017-04-06
Posts: 100

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

fsmithred wrote:

…If you want network-manager, you need to add it after the install…
If you have both wired and wireless network hardware, the installer will ask which one you want to use if you are going to use a network mirror…
Wicd has a button that says "Switch off wifi". Are you saying it doesn't work? It also has connect/disconnect buttons for both wired and wireless connections, and I know those work.…

Yes, my attempts to check the wicd "switch off wifi" box were ignored.
(ed:  I should clarify that I don't test wireless unless something passes a lot more testing - I'm just reporting what the UI shows.)
For that matter, wicd_network-manager doesn't re-connect timely or consistently - on eth0/wired, at least.
I have to stop whatever I'm doing, go up to the icon (or a rolled-up window-title-bar) and click to force it.
In my experience, nothing (devuan or derivative or conversion) using it has behaved any differently.
The few derivatives I found using connman-ui had no problem re-connecting; thus my current preference for that option.
(Speaking of options, if I only have wired hardware, why install wicd and default to wireless-only?  I saw no option…)

Thanks for pointing out the LXDE option on the DVD!

fsmithred wrote:

…If you're going to use refractasnapshot, it would be easier to install from a devuan installer iso, configure the system how you want it, and then make the live iso from that…

Even if your goal is a custom version of the live ISO you start from? hmm
I did use refractasnapshot-gui on a live derivative ISO with openbox and connman-ui and made a slightly different version.  Hope springs!
(I may have to study the custom setup for the live ISO user.)

Last edited by Somewhat Reticent (2017-06-16 16:06:36)

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#37 2017-06-22 14:41:58

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

Somewhat Reticent wrote:

Thanks for pointing out the LXDE option on the DVD!
I did use refractasnapshot-gui on a live derivative ISO with openbox and connman-ui and made a slightly different version.  Hope springs!
(I may have to study the custom setup for the live ISO user.)

the refracta snapshot doe not produce a good result, i mean, does not produce a good result..

i taking to produce equal process disc products.. no copy disc instalation products..

and some here said:

. Devuan devs have been focused on removing systemd dependencies, not on changing everything else.

sorry but seem Devuan start page dont said that.. satar like that,.. buit its suppost to be a distro.. not a copy based!?

or i assumed its a copy based that only remove systemd and then release? so then dont change the name.. only put "Debian-sysvinit derivative" and get on  the Debian derivates list .. please men!

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#38 2017-06-22 18:32:25

Somewhat Reticent
Member
Registered: 2017-04-06
Posts: 100

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

mckaygerhard wrote:

… "Debian-sysvinit derivative" …

Since Devuan intends to support more process-management systems than just sysV, that's too narrow. "Init Freedom" means more than just one (sysV).

mckaygerhard wrote:

the refracta snapshot … does not produce a good result.

My experience with it gave me hope; it seemed favorable. I don't know enough to evaluate its perfection.
If you've found some potential for improvement, please elaborate!


Meanwhile, (from another thread about a menu entry):

fsmithred wrote:

That will work until synaptic is upgraded to a newer version. Then your edited .desktop file will be replaced. …

I suspect some of my frustrations came from updates - not just to synaptic or apt, but to sudo and gksu.  At any rate, my first attempts produced custom ISOs, but several features were buggered (like auto-mounted drives, and access thereto).

Last edited by Somewhat Reticent (2017-06-22 18:46:05)

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#39 2017-06-22 18:43:28

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

i working on something to publicite a how to and good documentation due the git devuan doc project seems was death some "years" ago (exactly 2).. take easy...

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#40 2017-06-22 18:48:09

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 653

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

mckaygerhard wrote:

. . . or i assumed its a copy based that only remove systemd and then release?

Please don't equate your assumptions with fact.

so then dont change the name.. only put "Debian-sysvinit derivative" and get on  the Debian derivates list

It is painfully obvious how little you know about Devuan.  Rather than clogging this board with (mostly useless) posts perhaps you should start reading the DNG mailing list archives to get up to speed.

.. please men!

Please get a clue that there are not only 'men' on the Devuan team.

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#41 2017-06-22 18:48:15

Somewhat Reticent
Member
Registered: 2017-04-06
Posts: 100

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

mckaygerhard wrote:

i working on something to publicite a how to and good documentation due the git devuan doc project seems was death some "years" ago (exactly 2).. take easy...

Good documentations is always Much Needed!  Please keep in touch.

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#42 2017-06-22 18:56:11

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 653

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

mckaygerhard wrote:

i working on something to publicite a how to and good documentation due the git devuan doc project seems was death some "years" ago (exactly 2).. take easy...

The placeholder on git has never been developed.   Devuan  documentation is currently being developed on the Friends of Devuan wiki.  That may eventually be moved to Doc Devuan.

With all due respect . . . you do not have the language skills to write acceptable documentation in English.  Please focus you energies elsewhere.

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#43 2017-06-26 09:51:13

darry1966
Member
Registered: 2017-06-14
Posts: 40

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

I don't know if its appropriate to post this here but I used the installer cd instead of the live cd as I wanted to install Devuan on a non-pae machine and have a choice of desktop to use.  With debian I would have to use ethernet because wireless wouldn't be recognised.  Devuan picked up my wireless athk pcmcia wireless card and I could configure my connection and installed Devuan which I'm posting from.  My machine is a Thinkpad T42 and so far Devuan is running very nicely.  So the installer cd iso which I booted with Unetbootin was beyond my expectations installing the correct kernel for my Celeron M machine.  Basically wow thanks Devuan devs - I can tell you guys care about this distro - feels very solid.:)

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#44 2017-06-26 11:09:30

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

golinux wrote:
mckaygerhard wrote:

i working on something to publicite a how to and good documentation due the git devuan doc project seems was death some "years" ago (exactly 2).. take easy...

The placeholder on git has never been developed.   Devuan  documentation is currently being developed on the Friends of Devuan wiki.  That may eventually be moved to Doc Devuan.

With all due respect . . . you do not have the language skills to write acceptable documentation in English.  Please focus you energies elsewhere.

i write previously several material about specific topics in that wiki..  but now i cant post any! seems that i not have the skill based on your poor eyes on my recent post here.. well seem that if some of my material will be taken i will remenber where come from.. right

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#45 2017-06-26 15:19:42

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 653

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

The suggestion that your material will be 'taken' is ludicrous.  Feel free to post it elsewhere.  The wiki is undergoing some changes and your situation there will be resolved shortly.

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#46 2017-06-26 16:00:29

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
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Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

golinux its there any plan to get futer incubation process for users like mentors or similar?

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#47 2017-06-26 17:05:32

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 653

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

mckaygerhard wrote:

golinux its there any plan to get futer incubation process for users like mentors or similar?

I have no idea what you're asking.  Could you please try again?

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#48 2017-06-26 17:29:53

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

neutral

ok, lest remenber the nomadays: Sponsorship means that a Debian Developer uploads the package on behalf of the actual maintainer. The Debian Developer will also check the package for technical correctness and help the maintainer to improve the package if necessary. Therefore the sponsor is sometimes also called a mentor

that's was called the "mentors system", and my question there's some similar way to non-devuan mantainers to upload works to the "mentors"...

how can people that are not close in activity to devuan upload or put work?

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#49 2017-06-26 18:14:29

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 653

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

Ah, so you've moved from documentation to packaging.  Now I understand.

I cannot fully answer your question but I do know that Devuan packaging is done with the d1h Devuan packaging helper.  Properly built and reviewed packages are usually put in experimental for testing.  All this is done on devuan.git.org.

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#50 2017-06-26 18:53:09

mckaygerhard
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 157
Website

Re: how to setup installer with different desktop rather than Xfce4

always about documentation.. we need document how to help for newbies..  i see the documentation ?.?  roll ?.? of https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549 d1h but seems are not easy to undestand for newbies.. and some non-speaking english users

this due for change the default desktop maybe we need to recreate some special packages

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2017-06-26 18:53:43)

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