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#26 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-02-11 12:08:10
ToxicExMachina wrote:Don't call those features optional.
But they are optional. For example, can you name a single distribution that's actually using systemd-networkd?
Networkd? What about logind and udev?
ToxicExMachina wrote:All of useful features from SystemD can be implemented with a standard tool set accessible in GNU/Linux OS.
I would agree that most features can be implemented with other tools but I like the consistency of the systemd tool set and also the fact that they're all being produced and maintained by the same team, just as you would find in real UNIX systems.
But there are some features that are unique to systemd. I've already mentioned masking units, another is hardening of services:
https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/systemd-ser … ening.html
Check this out:
empty@E485:~ $ systemd-analyze security --no-p UNIT EXPOSURE PREDICATE HAPPY accounts-daemon.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? alsa-state.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? anacron.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? auditd.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? btrfs-scrub@-.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? colord.service 8.7 EXPOSED ? cron.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? dbus.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? emergency.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? gdm.service 9.7 UNSAFE ? getty@tty1.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? hddtemp.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? iwd.service 5.7 MEDIUM ? polkit.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? rc-local.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? rescue.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? rtkit-daemon.service 6.9 MEDIUM ? sysfsutils.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? systemd-ask-password-console.service 9.3 UNSAFE ? systemd-ask-password-wall.service 9.3 UNSAFE ? systemd-fsckd.service 9.5 UNSAFE ? systemd-initctl.service 9.3 UNSAFE ? systemd-journald.service 4.3 OK ? systemd-logind.service 4.1 OK ? systemd-networkd.service 2.8 OK ? systemd-resolved.service 2.1 OK ? systemd-rfkill.service 9.3 UNSAFE ? systemd-timesyncd.service 2.0 OK ? systemd-udevd.service 8.3 EXPOSED ? upower.service 7.2 MEDIUM ? user@1000.service 9.1 UNSAFE ? uuidd.service 9.1 UNSAFE ? empty@E485:~ $Can you do that with sysvinit?
That's the great example of SystemD flawness. So called "consistency" of SystemD is just overcomplication. Sandboxing is not the feature accessible only via SystemD.
ToxicExMachina wrote:If nobody made features like "portable home directories" then such features are obvious and already exist or they aren't demanded.
So what is your proposed solution to the problem of the encryption key being left in RAM during suspend operations?
I asked the same question over at the MX forums and one of their developers claimed that the "solution" was not to use suspend. And I think they were being serious
I have no this problem at all. If I don't want such security flaw I just won't use suspend. Security isn't about making illusion of secure state.
#27 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » TWO kernels in one update? » 2020-02-11 11:50:02
Which kernel updates you have downloaded? I think you installed two kernels before.
#28 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-02-10 08:52:11
Just for the record, I'm not an advocate. I find the enormous code base and memory usage of systemd objectionable. But I do like some of the features. For me systemd is a bit like cheesecake: I like the taste but I know it's bad for me
All of useful features from SystemD can be implemented with a standard tool set accessible in GNU/Linux OS. Moreover: they were implemented many times before SystemD was developed. If nobody made features like "portable home directories" then such features are obvious and already exist or they aren't demanded.
#29 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-02-10 08:45:10
steelpillow wrote:Looks like it's full steam ahead for homed "portable home directories", now merged in ready for the next release
You do understand that is a purely optional feature[1], right? It only makes sense for laptops and it won't be the default. And it's actually rather useful, if you read the posts about it earlier in the thread.
[1] Like most of systemd's tools.
Don't call those features optional. They are pure EEE. SystemD is not GNU/Linux - it's svchost.exe. Home directories in svchost.exe-like service is the greatest insanity achieved recently.
#30 Re: Off-topic » I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd » 2020-02-03 05:45:58
So i have bought libreboot machine (T500) but i am stuck with systemd arch linux now...
For my needs which is playing some linux games, browsing web this is enough for me... No issues with anything...
Maybe systemd is another OS inside linux thanks to systemctl or journalctl stuff but i am not sysadmin... :-(
SystemD means tons of problems for everyone. Maybe you don't see them now but they're in your system. Due to SystemD when something goes wrong you can't even understand where is the problem, so you can't fix it easily. It's not just about system administration itself. It's about reliability and control. When you have no control on your system it's definitely not a user-friendly situation.
If you like Arch you can try Artix Linux.
#31 Re: Off-topic » systemE: a lightweight systemd replacement written in Emacs lisp » 2020-02-03 05:35:07
Init system: check
Text editor: not yet (again)
#32 Re: Off-topic » Thunderbird needs to be forked » 2020-01-31 07:31:18
Does the Gnu foundation have it's own email client yet?
If you mean the GNU Project, then yes. They have a nice e-mail client called GNU Emacs.
#33 Re: Other Issues » USB tethering? » 2020-01-31 07:21:50
ToxicExMachina wrote:farmatito wrote:Yes, I know, but it just works and for me it is no fun at all on a laptop or desktop to type a poem into the shell just to connect a phone.
BTW you get also other nice features like VPN working out of the box with multiple profiles and kicking in automatically at connection time,
per connection randomized mac address if you wish so etc. etc.Ciao
1. It's not a poem in the shell. It's just one short command with a single and shorter argument.
that seems not to work yet...maybe more than a single line or a longer arg is needed?
2. VPN out of box is also works without NM. For people with disabilities (such as windows/mac based injury characterized as "losing of reading and comprehension abilities alongside with losing the capability of sensible text typing") there are GUI tools like kvpnc.
Luckily I'm not affected........
3. Networkmanager gives a lot of problems because technically it's extremely dirty solution. For example, devices working over serial interface may not connect due to NM because NM thinks "there is no other device but modem!".
the connection in this thread is an ethernet one.....and besides this the user used wicd before.
Best regards.
1. It works. If it doesn't work networkmanager can't solve the problem too.
2. So?
3. It doesn't matter. Wicd is not a problem at all.
#34 Re: Other Issues » USB tethering? » 2020-01-27 07:58:00
ToxicExMachina wrote:farmatito wrote:Why is it harder?
Because networkmanager doing the same thing with much more complicated way.
In Android USB tethering is just emulation of a network card using RNDIS.
Yes, I know, but it just works and for me it is no fun at all on a laptop or desktop to type a poem into the shell just to connect a phone.
BTW you get also other nice features like VPN working out of the box with multiple profiles and kicking in automatically at connection time,
per connection randomized mac address if you wish so etc. etc.Ciao
1. It's not a poem in the shell. It's just one short command with a single and shorter argument.
2. VPN out of box is also works without NM. For people with disabilities (such as windows/mac based injury characterized as "losing of reading and comprehension abilities alongside with losing the capability of sensible text typing") there are GUI tools like kvpnc.
3. Networkmanager gives a lot of problems because technically it's extremely dirty solution. For example, devices working over serial interface may not connect due to NM because NM thinks "there is no other device but modem!".
#35 Re: Other Issues » USB tethering? » 2020-01-26 13:02:34
Why is it harder?
Because networkmanager doing the same thing with much more complicated way.
In Android USB tethering is just emulation of a network card using RNDIS.
#36 Re: Other Issues » Shepherd Init Consideration » 2020-01-23 04:55:10
Simple question : How would I go about transitioning sysvinit scripts to shepherd under devuan -- mostly because I am super curious and tinkery right now.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Scheme_Programming
http://www.shido.info/lisp/idx_scm_e.html
https://www.scheme.com/tspl4/
Good luck with GNU Shepherd and pro-SJW Guix.
#37 Re: Devuan Derivatives » kFreeBSD edition mayby? » 2020-01-23 04:43:04
Debian k/FreeBSD has been moved to Debian-Ports. Since Freebsd has mature kermel,no Systemd, so?
Every kernel has no SystemD.
#38 Re: Devuan » make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option » 2020-01-23 04:39:51
For the record, if XFCE ever gets tanked or (even more) bloated
Now XFCE is second GNOME. It happened several years ago. There are tons of lightweight options for desktop. May be it's time to use FVWM. For console users there is also awesome desktop environment called GNU Emacs.
#39 Re: Other Issues » USB tethering? » 2020-01-23 04:29:06
Hi,
the easiest way is to remove wicd and install network-manager. Connect phone and PC through USB cable, go to phone settings
and enable USB tethering. Done!
It's way harder than DHCP client.
#40 Re: Other Issues » USB tethering? » 2020-01-23 04:27:49
I know where to find them and how to compile them, it's not an issue. It's just pointless to have them since I will ne using USB tethering to access the internet.
How can I determine what is wrong with the USB connection?
Do this as root:
1. Before you connect the phone to PC: dmesg > dmesg1.log
2. Connect your phone to PC and use the followind command: dmesg > dmesg2.log
3. diff dmesg1.log dmesg2.log
4. Using output from step 3 you will able to see how your phone connected to PC. You will see something like "New USB device found blah-blah-blah". You have to find network interface of your phone. May be USB tethering wasn't enabled yet. It's not just USB debugging - in android it's called "USB modem mode" or something like that.
3. dhclient network_interface_you_have_found (for example, dhclient usb0)
4. "ip a" or "ifconfig" to display info on network interfaces (you have to check presence of ip address of the network interface representing your phone).
#41 Re: Installation » SOLVED: Stop printers from being added - kill Bluetooth » 2020-01-23 03:50:48
If you want to disable bluetooth at all just remove Bluez. You can also try to disable bluetooth in CMOS setup of your laptop.
#42 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2020-01-21 07:37:21
a good idea are join effors with trinity desktop..
It's not a high priority task. However, if you will build and maintain TDE packages in Devuan repo - why not?
#43 Re: Other Issues » USB tethering? » 2020-01-21 07:26:53
If you mean getting internet access from android phone via USB first of all you have to enable so called USB tethering on your phone first. You will need root permissions or at least sudo command for steps described below.
Then you have to find network interface (you can get info with dmesg command, or it may be visible in output of the ifconfig command). It will appear as RNDIS compatible device.
And, finally, you have to enter the following command depending on your network interface name on the system:
dhclient networkinterface (dhclient usb0, dhclient rndis0, dhclient eth1 or something like that).
If it works you can use it with your favorite network connection application.
#44 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-01-15 07:06:48
In the overall battle against systemd (not just limited to Debian and it's downstream affect on Devuan), what's to prevent kernel dependencies worming their way down from systemd creating a lockout of non-systemd components? Despite his rant against Sievers, Linus' apparent apathy to systemd doesn't speak well to protecting the kernel from such pollution. If such encroachments can be kept at bay, then it seems possible to continue with a systemd-less distro. But if not, we're looking at forking at the kernel level, no?
SystemD exclusivity will ruin embedded Linux. It will cause a big fork.
#45 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Secure Boot » 2020-01-15 06:59:19
aut0exec wrote:Even saw some Dells the other day where CSM isn't an option within the firmware!
Yeah, Intel are planning to remove it completely: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12068/in … fi-by-2020
Bastards...
Intel can go screw itself: https://www.seabios.org/Build_overview# … _.28CSM.29
#46 Re: Other Issues » Is VirtualBox (or alternative) in the repo? » 2020-01-15 06:49:27
If you need VirtualBox, you can install it from official deb packages: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
However, I recommend QEMU (+ KVM) with AQEMU GUI:
apt-get install aqemu
QEMU is easy-to-use solution. For example, you can add USB devices into VM out of box without limitations. QEMU also has snapshots support and you don't need to build additional kernel module for virtualization. AQEMU is awesome UI because you can get a command for running configured QEMU without GUI at all ("Show QEMU Arguments" and "Create Shell Script" in right-click menu).
If you need terminal UI you can use this: https://bitbucket.org/PascalRD/nemu/
#47 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-01-07 16:52:49
Let's just face reality: Debian is "systemd only" now.
The fact is: it's SystemD-only just for now, not for the future.
#48 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2020-01-07 16:47:53
So why do you think Linux dominates the server market then? FreeBSD's networking stack performs better but it's not as popular.
Do you find your trolling very entertaining? By the way, you can go use Window$ right now - it has 100% BSD networking stack. Where is a big window$ share at the server field?
#49 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2019-12-30 05:21:02
what foundation would be possible for a fork of debian ?
devuanBSD? Go hyperbolic..
It sound like "Oh no! They have killed sysvinit! Therefore we should go BSD-kernel-only and screw everything at all because I don't care it's irrelevant to the kernel!"
#50 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2019-12-30 05:15:58
Debian has fallen. What now?
Ha. Ha. Ha. What an amusing panic! Anyone who want to escape cowardly can go to Window$ now.
Fighting Debian windmills from now to eternity does not look like a bright future.
Should Devuan switch to a different foundation now?
Devuan is the true Debian. There is no point to destroy it.
Are there other ideas how Devuan could/should react?
The first link from the search results ("how to write sysv init scripts in linux"): https://www.linuxnix.com/write-sysvinit-scripts/
Debian community, welcome! There is no corporate bs in Devuan! There is also a great opportunity to become the real maintainer without being witchhunted by SJWs!
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