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#1 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » Yesterday 17:08:33

Altoid wrote:

Many (many) years ago, I was a huge fan of FTP and used a very good FTP application under W95/98.
Like many other things from that age, I cannot remember the name but it was great and a free download for the likes of me.

Do you mean ws_ftp?  Bah!  I saw your update and clearly I was too slow in my reply. :-)

Altoid wrote:

I really would not going going back to using a separate FTP application, maybe one less thing for Google to spy into.

I figure since ftp hosts files in cleartext it is "spyable" regardless of which client one uses.  Kind of like how Devuan apt uses http by default, and I imagine many people never change it from that default.  I think:

  • ftp has its [arguably limited] uses

  • some people already use Firefox (perhaps for a digitally long time) to acces ftp services

  • removing ftp from Firefox will force those users to obtain a separate application (or alternative to ftp), which could potentially irritate some users enough to go looking for another browser

I'm not a Firefox developer but I still have a hard time believing the impact of ftp on the development process is significant.  At the same time, I also believe if the goal is to reduce bloat within Firefox there are some much bigger fish to fry before ftp.  It is hard for me to see the removal of ftp as a decision intended to serve users rather than to guide digital communications in a direction Mozilla prefers.

andyprough wrote:

I mean - what could possibly go wrong?

It's like they really can't see what's coming.  LAWL!

My 3¢ :-)

#2 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » Yesterday 14:09:41

[sarcasm]Awesome... I'm sure they're dropping FTP in order to make room for great new features like Bonzi Buddy![/sarcasm]

Is there actually a way to look back through changes to FF code to determine just how much effort really IS required to maintain FTP?

#3 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-04-05 02:33:32

Morty wrote:

Is there any reason to stay on Devuan?

One of the answers to this question I have seen a few times is "trust" but I thought that an attempt to describe what that means might help.  People who work on popular software or who manage popular digital services tend to accumulate some defacto power as a result of being part of something that is important to "more than just a few people".  Google has accumulated significant power because a lot of people use their search engine [and apparently some other services].  Facebook has accumulated significant power because they decide what billions of users see every day.  Ubuntu has accumulated significant power because it is [or at least has been] the first place many people turn to when they want to avoid Windows desktop platforms.  As someone who wants to participate in digital communications I want to be able to trust that Google won't use my data and metadata in a way that I don't like, that Facebook won't run experiments to see if they can manipulate public opinion with their news feed, and that Ubuntu won't pump my keystrokes to Amazon.

Debian has accumulated significant power because it is often generally seen as being a stable and dependable distribution with the backing of a long digital history, a lot of experience, and a lot of talent.  I assume this is why many distributions are based on Debian.  I want to be able to trust that Debian will not make decisions that have a negative impact on the stability, security, privacy, and usefulness of my operating system.  I, and I suspect others around here, feel that pushing systemd on users was a mistake... or at the very least that it could have been done more gracefully.  It also should have been obvious to the people making the decision, that the effects would cascade down through many distributions (as well as existing installations) and that Debian's push for systemd could be seen as a sort of "stamp of approval" regarding init systems.  I love to rant about "things that suck" and people frequently will get the impression that I am afraid of change.  I am simply afraid of poorly planned change.  I feel like systemd was poorly planned change.

Having said all that, even if subsequent Debian releases are expected to have a glorious, colourful, and even eccentric list of init systems to choose from, the damage is done.  I'm not going to be quick to shuffle back to Debian because I can't trust that Debian won't create its own Unity-like desktop, or partner up with Amazon to sell me AWS resources, or drop apt in favour of puppy packaging system.  Okay, all of those are pretty unlikely... but the point remains that I have trouble trusting the decision making process that allowed systemd the penetration it enjoys today.

golinux wrote:

Now I know why I don't hang out on reddit.

andyprough wrote:

I'm pretty shocked that a bunch of redditors got it all wrong. Shocked I tell you.

Sweet. :-)

Morty wrote:

But from a technical standpoint alone: Is there still any technical advantage over debian 11? What are the reasons to keep Devuan when Debian has the same features? Just trying to get some infos to make my decision.

I don't think there was ever a technical reason for me to change from Debian to Devuan... except maybe that it made some of my existing scripts a little happier.  I have said more than once (offline) that I honestly feel like Devuan is perceivably faster than Debian... I'm pretty sure it isn't technically true, but it does feel like it at times.  If it IS in fact faster I'm sure I'll hear about it soon though. :-)

The reason to make the switch [at least for me] is related to the term "free" meaning freedom rather than just a price tag of $0.00.  I believe the Devuan project is more likely to produce decisions that respect my freedom than the Debian project.  In all honesty, the difference may be negligible or may never affect me significantly, but it is like Joel McCrea said in the 1955 movie Wichita: "It's not a question of who's right, it's a question of what's right.".

EDX-0 wrote:

as long as systemd is the "default" other init systems on debian will be an after tought and the experience will be rough around the edges

Definitely!  Like it or not, some people use Windows and I wind up supporting it for some of them.  I tried to keep my father on XP as long as I could, but it was software that pushed his upgrade rather than the terrible security risk the upgrade fanboys were jabbering about.  Eventually his accounting software stopped running on XP and he got his "upgrade".  Similarly, I think that as long as systemd is the default, it will encourage developers to write for it, and maybe write for it exclusively.  If you want to use one of their applications... then you may be forced to use systemd.  I don't think I'd like to be stuck in that situation.

My 3¢.

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