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#1 Re: Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » Today 15:33:52

The man pages help system was invented quite early in the Unix history, so as to ensure binaries (aka programs) are documented intentially in regards to function as well as which command line arguments they use and how these alter or direct the program behaviour. The general rule is that every program has an associated man page with the same name, and in addition there's supposed to be man pages for every configuration file. One were further advised to prepare man pages for distinct use cases where they involved complexity.

I'm trying to suggest to you, that if you want to talk about the meaning of help systems for computer usage, then surely the principles behind Unix man pages would be a foundation and start-point as they sit as the historical first approach to this subject.

#2 Re: Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » Today 12:35:07

Pity to miss "man pages" which is the traditional Unix help system.

#3 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Test ISO: refracta freia xlibre turnstile pipewire » Yesterday 22:50:45

@aitor: turnstile is ported to debian, with a "simple user session startup backend". It's in ceres.

re hotplugging: does the device plug-in get logged in X11 log? in syslog? I think X11 needs the libinput module for hotpluggable devices, and that this interacts with udev.

#4 Re: DIY » simple login gui » 2026-06-03 11:49:09

Fair enough. Yes, "minimal" is a relative while "basic" is a quality. As @SteveM vaguly indicated, "minmal" would mean that the thing is no greater in any comparison dimension than other of its kind. So I misunderstood your meaning.

Did you know that github is a Microsoft site?
And that there are many FOSS alternatives one can use instead?

#5 Re: DIY » simple login gui » 2026-06-03 07:30:12

That doesn't sound very minimal to me. How does it relate to that program that the OP got made?

#6 Re: DIY » simple login gui » 2026-06-03 07:20:54

So what do you mean with minimal?

#7 Re: DIY » simple login gui » 2026-06-03 05:13:59

What do you mean by "minimal"? ... 1x1 pixels?

#9 Re: Off-topic » low end gaming on linux » 2026-06-01 21:48:02

@Anonym.....: So what's up with copying the whole prior post in your post.
Ignorance? Insecurity? Infitesimal attension span?

#10 Re: Off-topic » About devuan users forum » 2026-05-30 22:17:51

No reason whatsoever to discuss that here.

#11 Re: Documentation » [HowTo] Create a Service Script for sysvinit » 2026-05-30 04:26:32

You could also refer to the "man page" init-d-script.

#12 Re: ARM Builds » init system is failing » 2026-05-29 12:56:05

Yes, something is very odd. eudev is actually tagged as optional in the excalibur/main Packages file whereas it's tagged important in the ceres/main Packages file, and yet they have the same version code. Very odd but it does explain why it's not included in debootstrap.

Separately, I have a different note, that you might want to use binfmt_misc for "seamless" CPU emulation, in which case you can avoid the "foreign + second-stage" steps of debootstrap. The setup recepie on the build host for that would be like the following:

# apt-get install binfmt-support qemu-user-static
# modprobe binfmt_misc
# cat /usr/lib/binfmt.d/qemu-aarch64.conf > /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/register

After that, your amd64(?) processor will execute arm64 binaries (within arm64 filesystem). I.e, it would let you run debootstrap in a single run, without the --foreign argument. Also, following the completed debootstrap, you may chroot into that filesystem (seamlessly) and run additional  apt-get install and whatnot, to complete the setup.

Either way you will need to add --include=eudev explicitly.

#13 Re: ARM Builds » init system is failing » 2026-05-28 14:05:47

It may depend on which deboostrap variant you used. eudev (which provides the udev impementaiton for Devuan) is tagged as "important" so would be in the default variant, but e.g. not in the minbase variant.

#14 Re: ARM Builds » init system is failing » 2026-05-28 13:15:42

Ok, understood. Sounds good.

The very first thing to do in that init script is to mount /proc. Without that nothing else can be mounted. Possibly that is sufficient, but I think it should also mount /dev before any auto-mounting and mdev. Thus I suggest it starts as:

#!/bin/sh
mount -t proc proc /proc
mount -t devtmpfs devtmpfs /dev
mount -T /fstab -a
....

Just to note that all that mounting happens within the initrd (unpacked filesystem) and switch_root will unmount all before switching root.

Therefore you might need to also add a bind-mount onto /mnt/proc just before switch_root

It is the right thing to exec the openRC init binary, though of course the root filesystem needs to be duly populated. If you want to rely on the early /dev population by mdev, then that switch_root init script might further need to bind-mount /mnt/dev as well before switching.

#15 Re: ARM Builds » init system is failing » 2026-05-28 12:03:17

Hmm, that script; which filesystem has that script. Is that /init in an initrd?

Without initrd, you probably will need boot root= and rootfstype= arguments and then the kernel might be able to find that /init script on the given root. This will still require the kernel to have built-in modules to handle mmcblk device, the partition table and the filesystem involved.

Do you know that the kernel loads and starts?

Do you have serial connectors to attach to, to get bootloading logs?

#16 Re: ARM Builds » init system is failing » 2026-05-28 10:19:48

Hmm, the sysvinit scripts for eudev (or udev) seems to mount the kernel's devtmpfs onto /dev (of the post-pivot root filesystem), so apparently your system boot-up doesn't include those.

Could you share your kernel boot command line arguments?

#17 Re: Off-topic » word is that flatpak 2.0 WILL depend on systemd » 2026-05-26 23:21:23

I think it's a mind set thing, whether something is "owned" or a "commons".

But I certainly share a belief that the people working on those things typically where employed by RH at the same time. Possibly many of the current maintainers are as well.

In my mind though, when you contribute to a commons it becomes a commons. The commons does not have an owner. It's a mind set thing.

#18 Re: Installation » fstab not mounting at startup » 2026-05-24 00:44:00

unixbot443 wrote:

I am using Network Manager.
I'm not following what that thread is getting at.  Can you please explain?

The point is that initscripts installs an ifupdown networking  "event handler", /etc/network/if-up.d/mountnfs, that processes /etc/fstab when interfaces are brought up, and both the daedalus and ceres versions of network-manager link up to that by means of the indicated script,
/etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/01-ifupdown.

The excalibur version however lacks that script.

#19 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] MAC change and eudev » 2026-05-21 00:54:09

That /etc/network/interface block would be used to assign the MAC address, wherease the UDEV rule is a condition to only apply for the given MAC address.

Another way to change that udev rules file is by removing it and reboot.

#20 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Socket file found at socket path /run/seatd.sock, refusing to start » 2026-05-20 10:33:43

Why do you want to use the command seatd-launch dwl.
Is seatd running already?
Is there a dwl running already?

#21 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » [SOLVED] Socket file found at socket path /run/seatd.sock, refusing to start » 2026-05-19 22:22:19

Presumably it means that there is a seatd running that uses that socket pathname.

#23 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » alsa_out » 2026-05-19 22:09:38

Try using https://pkginfo.devuan.org though with the (too subtile?) "File:" search variant.

(There is a hint about that on its fromt page.)

#24 Re: Other Issues » libncurses5 » 2026-05-19 21:58:22

libncurses5 is found in daedalus/main.
Assuming you are now on excalibur, one option is to add the old repository sources to your sources.list, e.g., by adding the following lines:

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-security main

Then run

# apt-get upate aupdate
# apt-get install --no-install-recommends libncurses5

to get it installed (without including any "recommends" for it).

hth

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