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another option would be to cobble a script with yad for the gui (lighter for setups that already use yad) and on the inside all it does is run apt-get commands to show the information of the .deb and installs it with apt-get install <full/path/to/package.deb>
DebiTool is built on top of yad
Why do you need GUI for apt-get?
Personally, I don't need a GUI for APT but I'm thinking of setting up Devuan on my dad's PC and I know he's not going to bother using the terminal.
Well, since I proposed looking into it, I decided it wouldn't hurt to see if I could get it to work on Excalibur.
I set up a virtual machine, got the latest netinstall rc1 image, installed the system with the default XFCE desktop environment and got to tinkering with it.
First I ran apt install shepherd which pulled a few dependencies with it too. Then, I installed the shepherd-debian 1.5-2 amd64.deb package from the link I provided.
This includes a bunch of scripts to get many services and daemons running so you have a working OS, as well as a configuration file called /etc/shepherd.scm
In the config file I changed udevd to point from /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd to /sbin/udevd
Then, under root, I did:
nano /etc/default/grub
And there I modified the following:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="init=/usr/bin/shepherd"
And then did sudo update-grub
Unfortunately, the system did not boot and gave an error saying:
shepherd: error: "/etc/shepherd.scm": exception thrown while loading configuration file
When adding shepherd.debug into the grub config I got this output:
shepherd[1]: while loading configuration file '/etc/shepherd.scm' "no code for module (system ffi-help-rt)
Apparently, the shepherd packaged in Debian/Devuan is not a dynamic executable and it doesn't include extensions like the Guile FFI which allow it to make system calls for functions like mount, umount, stat, and kill, as well as handle errors and signals.
Later I found out the Debian/Devuan shepherd package also included its own two example configs in usr/share/doc/shepherd/examples/.
At this point, I thought awesomeadam.scm was the most promising way to get a working system and I decided to try to adapt it for Devuan.
Here are the changes I've done:
1) Update all /usr/local/etc/init.d/ paths to point to /etc/init.d/
2) Removed the systemd- prefix for the udev services.
3) Changed the path from /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd to /sbin/udevd
4) Changed the line from #:start (make-forkexec-constructor '("/lib/apparmor/apparmor.systemd" "reload")) to #:start (make-forkexec-constructor '("/etc/init.d/apparmor" "start"))
5) Changed from lightdm:
(define lightdm
(service '(lightdm display-manager)
#:requirement '(dbus)
#:documentation "The lightdm service provides the Light Display Manager."
#:start (make-forkexec-constructor '("/usr/local/etc/init.d/lightdm"))
#:stop (make-kill-destructor)
#:respawn? #t))
to slim:
(define slim
(service '(slim display-manager)
#:requirement '(dbus)
#:documentation "The slim service provides the Simple Login Manager."
#:start (make-forkexec-constructor '("/etc/init.d/slim"))
#:stop (make-kill-destructor)
#:respawn? #t))
And updated the register-services and start-service lists to use slim instead of lightdm.
Then, I renamed the file to shepherd.scm and put it into /etc
At this point, I updated GRUB to boot with shepherd again and got vmgwfx errors saying my configuration was likely broken and my hypervisor was unsupported and I didn't get to the slim login screen.
At this point, without any clear information on what was going on, I got stuck.
Well, at least it understands what to do when you press Ctrl+Alt+Del and now I know the scripts turned out to be useless.
SparkyLinux had a nice lightweight GUI alternative to gdebi, maybe it could be packaged for Devuan as well?
https://sparkylinux.org/debitool/
https://github.com/sparkylinux/debi-tool
Thank you for trying to help but I have an Intel device. That said, I might try to set up ALSA on it again once Excalibur is out. I've been getting more into making music again lately and I notice that having direct access to the audio hardware tends to sharply reduce the latency and produce less cracking and farting sounds out of the DAWs which is good because my hardware is pretty underpowered by modern standards.
I think your best bet would be to contact their support and propose they add support for running on operating systems with alternative init systems.
In the bottom of this link there are 3 options to contact them, Reddit, Discord or start a chat.
https://windscribe.com/knowledge-base/
Unfortunately, many of the VPNs that create their own apps for Linux tend to rely on systemd or its tools like resolvectl to reconfigure the DNS.
You might have some like AirVPN work well enough but you'll be missing some features like autostarting the VPN when you boot into your system and others may fail to change the DNS so while your IP will show you in another country, you will still be using your own ISP's DNS.
Clients like Outline will not connect at all on a non-systemd environment.
IIRC, Mullvad worked well on Devuan but I haven't used it in 2 years so don't quote me on that.
If more people complain about this, it might incentivize the developers of the software to add it to their sprints and come up with a solution, though it all ultimately depends on their team's capacity and willingness to put in the effort for this.
Of course, the other alternative is to not use their apps at all and just import their openvpn/wireguard configs if they allow that, and it seems Windscribe does offer that option.
https://windscribe.com/features/config-generators/
And you can also set up a different DNS on your router as well if you test and see that your DNS requests are being leaked.
In the long run it is better to rely on software with an opt-in feature model than software that needs to be built and packaged with opt-out features like any *-minimal package
I agree here completely and I tend to prefer software that solves one problem well and doesn't come with a plethora of features I don't need.
Sometimes though, it's hard to find good alternatives and I think the situation will inevitably get even worse in time.
Or maybe a better interpretation would be: "systemd, for anything else - you're on your own!"
If we are being serious though, I'm not sure if this issue is due to Debian's stance or if it's an APT issue.
I might be naive to assume the latter.
I think the first sign that Excalibur is close would be when beta.devuan.org is updated.
That said, I'd rather they don't rush things. Who knows how much more garbage has been added to Trixie?
Apparently, in Trixie, apt won't let you remove systemd during installation unless you tell it to --allow-remove-essential so I guess it's a step backwards towards their "Systemd but we support exploring alternatives" vote in 2019.
I use keepassxc-minimal.
I don't need the networking, browser integration, ssh agent, freedesktop.org secret storage features and it serves my needs well enough.
Should I be concerned about anything?
Hi greenjeans, this is in no way meant to question you or anything. I'm simply curious because I always thought the idea behind Debian and, by extension, Devuan, was to build the new version for 2 years, release it as stable and then most packages wouldn't even be updated unless a security issue is found within them so it just seemed a bit odd to port xlibre to a stable system that should still run fine with X11. And I doubt that within 3 months xlibre has had any serious changes happen to make it stand out compared to what we already have now. That said, I haven't really dug that deep into it to see how far in development it's been. Obviously for Forky or other future versions of Debian the situation would be different should Debian decide to drop Xorg support altogether.
I don't see scripts on that page, just deb packages. And they aren't the same ones that are in debian/devuan. The versions of guile don't match the current versions in bookworm/daedalus. You're probably better off installing the packages from the repo.
If you extract the shepherd-debian 1.5-2 amd64.deb package on the blog I linked to, you'll see that it consists of scripts that are installed in /etc/shepherd.d and a shepherd configuration file which can run said scripts and deal with shutting down or rebooting the system among other things.
I did not say you need to install the init from this blog, what I said was the scripts this user created could potentially work for Excalibur as well. They are just scripts after all.
That said, I am not a developer so take my words with a pinch of salt. Would love to hear more thoughts on the viability of implementing shepherd in Devuan.
Well of course there is, i'm an idiot, lol, didn't scroll down far enough. These days when I go look at a project on git* I immediately start opening the source code files to take a look, i'm kinda transitioning right now from a spectator and I have an endless curiousity now about what makes things tick, if that makes any sense.
I understand, I'm not a developer, so my first instinct is to read the description and see if something is useful to me or not and how to install it.
By the way, kudos on making a GUI tool for ALSA.
I'm personally using Pipewire. I tried switching from pulse to ALSA a few times in the past but I couldn't get my laptop mic working on ALSA so I had to go back to pulse. It's still possible that someday I'll join your little club when I end up building my next PC and switch to external mics and it's good if there will be more options than using the command line to set things up.
Simply out of curiosity: do we really need xlibre in Devuan Excalibur?
X11 server has been forked a few months ago and I assume it's still included in Debian Trixie and should work well enough for the next 2 years.
It might not be relevant if you don't plan on switching to testing or am I wrong about this?
Hi fsmithred, thank you very much for replying to my message!
Yes, I understand that now the package is included in Devuan as well, but, in my understanding, Shepherd is not a drop-in replacement init system like SysVinit is to systemd, it requires more work to get daemons and services running.
I tried to find more information about this and in my search I stumbled upon this post for Bookworm that talks about how to get Shepherd running.
I wonder if this user's scripts can be used to implement official out of the box Shepherd support for Excalibur?
https://www.opopop.net/Debian_Bookworm_ … it_system/
Hi everyone, I noticed that Shepherd has been added to trixie's packages:
https://packages.debian.org/trixie/shepherd
And, the Init Freedom page on Devuan lists Shepherd as one of the init systems that are either available or being considered for inclusion in Devuan
Is there even the smallest chance that we could see the option to use Shepherd in Devuan Excalibur?
By that I mean to pick it as one of the available init systems during the system installation.
Thank you for your reply and consideration!
Hello friends, I tried the implementations listed here on my Dell Latitude 7480 laptop and while they do work, I sometimes had to reboot my laptop a few times to get working audio or manually kill and start the pipewire processes from terminal.
I found a different solution which worked for me and I wanted to share it with you too in case you have a similar problem:
In /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ create a file and call it 98-pipewire and put the following script into it:
#!/bin/bash
# We need to kill any existing pipewire instance to restore sound
pkill -u "${USER}" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse 1>/dev/null 2>&1
pkill -u "${USER}" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire-media-session 1>/dev/null 2>&1
pkill -u "${USER}" -fx /usr/bin/wireplumber 1>/dev/null 2>&1
pkill -u "${USER}" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire 1>/dev/null 2>&1
exec /usr/bin/pipewire &
# wait for pipewire to start before attempting to start related daemons
while [ "$(pgrep -f /usr/bin/pipewire)" = "" ]; do
sleep 1
done
if [ -x /usr/bin/wireplumber ]; then
exec /usr/bin/wireplumber &
elif [ -x /usr/bin/pipewire-media-session ]; then
exec /usr/bin/pipewire-media-session &
fi
[ -f "/usr/share/pipewire/pipewire-pulse.conf" ] && exec /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse &
And with this I get audio on every reboot so no more restarting my laptop multiple times.
The only issue I had after doing this is that sometimes the audio was a bit choppy.
I found a solution on the Debian wiki but it had to be applied on every boot so I did this:
In /usr/share/pipewire/pipewire.conf I uncommented and changed the settings
default.clock.allowed-rates = [ 44100 48000 ]
default.clock.quantum = 2048
default.clock.min-quantum = 2048
And after rebooting this was solved for me too. I hope this can help you as well!
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