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#26 2018-07-24 14:21:50

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,290  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Yes, either the graphical or non-graphical expert install will let you do what you want. If you select a mirror during the install, then the DVD and the netinstall isos will give you the same thing. If you have a very slow connection and cannot use a mirror, then you should use the DVD.

I find the non-graphical install easier to use than the graphical. (Easier to use the keyboard only, rather than have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard.)

The wiki is at friendsofdevuan.org. It's a work-in-progress, so it may not have what you want yet. Your suggestion is good - enough people are confused by the difference between the installer isos and the live isos, that there should be a simple explanation available. Maybe a page that has an overview of different install methods would be appropriate. (I'm talking to myself and the people who are editing the wiki.)

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#27 2018-07-27 18:14:40

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 110  
Website

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Hello I have a question for OpenRC users who use the option paralleized OpenRC
Parallel startup in OpenRC was disabled by default due to this bug. I understand this is a critical bug. Is any of you is affected by this bug? How do you think it is safe to use this feature?

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#28 2018-07-27 20:47:42

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 977  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

So far, I've never had it hang up during the boot process (I shutdown daily). Can't say that it won't, but it hasn't yet.

I noticed that the last version of OpenRC mentioned in that report was 0.13.de18640, the last post was from 2014, and the last update to the report was 2015. The current version in Devuan is 0.23-1+b1. It does still give a warning about the possible hang at boot if you enable the parallel option, but I like living on the edge. LOL!!! tongue

I can't testify as to the safety of it. Sorry. All that I know is that it has worked flawlessly for me so far. smile

Also, in my personal experience, it does seem to boot a little faster having parallel enabled, but it's not really so much faster that it makes me go, "WOW!!!" big_smile


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#29 2018-07-28 13:57:46

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 110  
Website

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Thanks for the reply, MiyoLinux. Sorry for my bad English.  As for OpenRc, i will write my notes. At the beginning of the installation, i selected "Expert install" and go to step when you need to choose init system. There is a warning on that screen "it is a experimental software. Use it at own risk". This means openRC. I decided to insult myself, so I chose OpenRC. I installed the minimal system. No DE and DM, just i3wm. I used to access the graphical environment startx. I decided to check the system resources that were used with command "top". I was surprised. It turns out that a system, which is not overloaded, uses 20 percent of cpu. I found out that the culprit is an OpenRC process named "yes". Ten minutes later, the system began to jerk, the reboot took about 10 minutes. So, I understood one that the warning on the wiring screen it was not for nothing. OpenRC, in my opinion, is not ready for production. Anyone using OpenRC should have that in mind. In addition, I did not notice practically any difference between sysvinit and OpenRC (I mean loading and reloading speeds). So, I decided to stay with a verified sysvinit.  Thank you for your attention.

Last edited by Ogis1975 (2018-07-28 13:59:55)

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#30 2018-07-30 13:16:52

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 22  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Ogis1975 wrote:

OpenRC, in my opinion, is not ready for production. Anyone using OpenRC should have that in mind. In addition, I did not notice practically any difference between sysvinit and OpenRC (I mean loading and reloading speeds). So, I decided to stay with a verified sysvinit.  Thank you for your attention.

Thanks for your feedback first.
Till now i installed Devuan+OpenRC+KDE "only" in the VirtualBox using 4 of 12 CPU-cores (Xeon 6 core 12 threads), the new PC-Parts (on which was supposed to install the final system) are on the way, hence i cannot tell you about the behavior in real machine.
I also not seen the warning message (cause of VM?), however i start the machine several time @ day and never got any problem.

Do you use only one core? I can imagine that one core managing 20 processes running all under PID N°1 can cause difficulties.
I also tested TrueOS (FreeBSD) in the past on real machine there use also "OpenRC" but @ time i not yet knew how to parallelize it.
Those test was abandoned due too slow network and my incapability to set up a dark UI.

The dark UI (e.g. obsidian coast or breeze dark) is essential for my eyes and even if KDE take (for me) the wrong way (wit Dolphin, Kate, Kdesudo) i'm forced to use it (even if the appearances are to be settled twice (as user and as admin)) because is the only UI i learn to modify the appearance properly. For other machines @ home i have to use KDE too because of similarity of Kick-Off with Windows (used in the company) and for maintenance simplicity (only one UI).

Now, i would't go back to Kubuntu (cause of systemd). OpenRC is relatively new (@ least in Linux (as far i know)) nonetheless it is daily improved.
I hope, soon will be removed the latter rest of systemd from Devuan so i can sleep quieter.

Additional feedback will follow after assembly and install on latest incoming hardware.

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#31 2018-07-30 14:57:02

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 110  
Website

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Thanks for your feedback first.

You're welcome smile

Do you use only one core?

No, i use 8 cores. It is Intel i7 920 (8) @ 2.7GHz

OpenRC is relatively new

Well, it's not so important anymore. Simply bleeding edge is not for me. I choose stability and time-tested methods.

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#32 2018-07-30 15:52:51

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 22  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Ogis1975 wrote:

No, i use 8 cores. It is Intel i7 920 (8) @ 2.7GHz

May i ask you which file-system you use? 'ext4', 'btrfs' other?

Our motherboard should be similar, i use an MSI-x58 over-clocked CPU from 2.93 to 4.0 GHz (182x22).

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#33 2018-07-31 14:33:32

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 110  
Website

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Hello, Terence. I use ext4 filesystem.

Our motherboard should be similar

Yes, it is, but my cpu is not over-clocked.

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#34 2019-08-07 07:36:21

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 22  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Ogis1975 wrote:

Hello I have a question for OpenRC users who use the option paralleized OpenRC
Parallel startup in OpenRC was disabled by default due to https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391945 this bug. I understand this is a critical bug. Is any of you is affected by this bug? How do you think it is safe to use this feature?

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391945This bug same to be solved, see https://bugs.gentoo.org/391945#c42last post, here the plain text:

Benda Xu gentoo-dev 2019-07-09 10:40:44 UTC
This bug is has been turned into a feature request to upstream the boot dependency loop solver implemented for Debian.

The present status: in Debian the loop solver by Okunev worked perfectly well for more than 5 years.

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#35 2019-08-07 16:16:52

macondo
Member
From: Central America
Registered: 2017-06-11
Posts: 44  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Terence wrote:

Dear All, dear Devs,

Counter-check everything is like you want!
1. Check 'OpenRC' is up and running:

pidof /sbin/init && echo "openrc" || echo "other"

Output:

1
openrc

Thanks to all you guys (Terence, golinux, fmithred, et.al.) I followed your instructions to the letter, reinstalled Devuan, moved to Ceres and got openrc, kudos to the devs and you too. THANKS!

By the way, small typo: there is a quotation mark missing after the word 'other', no biggie...

Last edited by macondo (2019-08-07 17:09:40)


Desktop Celeron 4 GB RAM - Devuan Ceres -  Slackware 14.2  - Slackware Current - Grub - IceWM
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

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#36 2019-08-08 08:46:36

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 22  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

macondo wrote:
Terence wrote:

Dear All, dear Devs,

Counter-check everything is like you want!
1. Check 'OpenRC' is up and running:

pidof /sbin/init && echo "openrc" || echo "other"

Output:

1
openrc

Thanks to all you guys (Terence, golinux, fmithred, et.al.) I followed your instructions to the letter, reinstalled Devuan, moved to Ceres and got openrc, kudos to the devs and you too. THANKS!

By the way, small typo: there is a quotation mark missing after the word 'other', no biggie...

Thanks a lot for your feedback & forall your correction, i apply it and appreciate, thanks again.

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#37 2019-09-14 18:55:30

b3bgd
Member
Registered: 2019-08-31
Posts: 14  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Terence wrote:
pidof /sbin/init && echo "openrc" || echo "other"

That shell command doesn't have much to do with openrc. You only check the PID of /sbin/init, which is almost always 1, even with the default Sys V or systemd or whatever, and then you print a random message, in this case "openrc". Could as well be anything else. Just run the same command as root on a Devuan, Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS or any other Linux that does not even has openrc installed, and check the results for yourself.
Guess what happens on a Ubuntu 18.04 with systemd:

# pidof /sbin/init && echo "openrc" || echo "other"
1
openrc

roll

You might want to try something else, like seeing where init is actually pointing:

# ls -alh /sbin/init 
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 sep  5 06:59 /sbin/init -> /lib/systemd/systemd

See? It points to systemd on Ubuntu here.

In case it doesn't, you might want to check the executable yourself. For example, on Devuan with Sys V and no OpenRC installed:

# strings /proc/1/exe | grep INIT_VERSION
INIT_VERSION=sysvinit-2.88

See? Here we have Sys V /sbin/init.

Also, if I remember correctly, OpenRC doesn't always replace init...?

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#38 2019-09-14 19:27:27

b3bgd
Member
Registered: 2019-08-31
Posts: 14  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Terence wrote:

2. Check 'OpenRC' is parallelized:

(ps -eo "ppid,args" 2>/dev/null || echo "ps call error") \
| awk 'NR==1 || $1==1' | less

Output:

Again, this has nothing to do with openrc either. And even if would be correct, it wouldn't mean "openrc" is "parallelised". It just shows you the processes that have a parent pid (ppid) of 1, e.g., that have been started by init (whichever that is) directly, parallel or not.

So, you are just listing a bunch of processes that have been started by init.You might as well run ps --ppid 1, it's the same think, you don't need that hugeload of command.

Guess what happens on Ubuntu with no openrc installed (and with systemd init):

# (ps -eo "ppid,args" 2>/dev/null || echo "ps call error") | awk 'NR==1 || $1==1'
 PPID COMMAND
    1 /usr/sbin/cron -f
    1 /usr/sbin/ModemManager --filter-policy=strict
    1 /usr/sbin/irqbalance --foreground
    1 /usr/sbin/acpid
    1 /usr/sbin/atd -f
[...]

Guess what we see on Devuan with Sys V and no openrc ever installed:

 (ps -eo "ppid,args" 2>/dev/null || echo "ps call error") \
> | awk 'NR==1 || $1==1' 
 PPID COMMAND
    1 udevd --daemon
    1 /sbin/dhclient -4 -v -pf /run/dhclient.eth0.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.eth0.leases -I -df /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient6.eth0.leases eth0
    1 /usr/sbin/rsyslogd
    1 /usr/sbin/cron
    1 /usr/sbin/ntpd -p /var/run/ntpd.pid -g -u 101:106
[...]

Please don't get me wrong, there is nothing personal here, but please make sure you understand what you are posting before making it a tutorial.

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#39 2019-09-15 11:01:21

F_Sauce
Member
From: Noreg
Registered: 2017-07-07
Posts: 31  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

Hei Terence.

Nice to have a «KDE-relative» on this forum!
Sorry for not being present earlier!

Cheers,
Olav

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#40 2019-10-06 00:04:59

Terence
Member
From: Munich / Germany
Registered: 2018-03-20
Posts: 22  

Re: Devuan + paralleized OpenRC + KDE

@ b3bgd

I admit to be a Newbie and I'm not ashamed for that, I accept and welcome each constructive criticism.

Don't take me wrong, but, if you convey the rights commands how should be... I will correct immediately as already in the past have done.

ᑟ ᐒ

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