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#1 2020-10-29 12:34:12

caieng
Member
Registered: 2020-10-29
Posts: 4  

two questions, new to Devuan

Please feel free to move this to "Other topics", or elsewhere if another section is more appropriate.  Two questions and accompanying comments.  Today was my first encounter with Devuan, and the overall experience was largely positive--thank you.

1.  Printer:  effortless.  Worked very well.  Thanks to all.  Question is coming....  First:  a dozen odd (and some "old", but all 64 bit) computers running Debian, Mint 19.3, or 20.0.   A fresh install of 19.3 is accomplished just as easily as today's install of Devuan Beowulf.  No such luck, however, with Mint 20.  Reason, I guess, is because Ubuntu no longer supports 32 bit drivers for my printers, scanners, etc....all of which, themselves, work just fine, though they are a decade or so, old.  I am not flush with cash, and reluctant to discard something just because a shiny new toy exists.  I am keeping my printers and scanners, and hoping that I will continue to find a Linux version to support them, though they are connected via Win XP software, on a separate computer running that antique operating system.  Question:  How long will I be able to use Beowulf, to print, or, is the future looking just as bleak, as it does, for Mint 20 --where my devices no longer function?

2.  Sound:  Wow, felt like back in 1980 running Unix on a Dec VAX.  Very primitive, completely the contrary to the experience with Mint 16, 17....20.   This is to my way of thinking, a killer, for this OS, if it isn't possible to fix, in a forthcoming iteration.  Of course, could be user fault.  This is my first experience, and four hours later, I still haven't solved the issue.  Granted, unlike the first hour, I do have sound!!!  hurrah.  BUT, the road isn't obvious, nor does it work, simply by turning on the computer, as everything else does.   In the olden times, we had to type, for example, startx, which was a user interface to the X-Windows system.  How many users of Devuan would be pleased to know that they could see the desktop, whenever they wanted, just by typing startx ?  I don't want to type startx.  I want the desktop to work when I turn on the computer.  Ditto for sound.   More than an hour of fiddling, editing obscure files in /etc, and so on, I STILL DON"T HAVE audio, unless I open a terminal, and yes, TYPE, no, not startx, but rather, pulseaudio --check   followed by pulseaudio -D.  N.B.  (nota bene) these two commands work, and work well, however, one must not type pulseaudio -check, or pulseaudio --D.    Those hash marks, i.e. hyphens, must be spaced and elaborated, exactly as shown.  WHY?  Why must I type these two commands with their oddly asymmetric hyphens, every time I boot the computer, as if "startx", all over again?  (mind you, startx was  itself, an improvement, three decades ago, over the alternative!!!)

cheers,
caieng

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#2 2020-10-29 13:05:22

larsH
Member
Registered: 2020-05-05
Posts: 143  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Hi

Read the release notes. Especially about enabling pulseaudio for sound.

This distribution is not based on Ubuntu, but debian. As long debian is making a 32bit version (and they will do this with at least the next release) Devuan will have x86-32 bit fully supported..

Have a nice day
Lars H

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#3 2020-10-29 13:26:25

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,645  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

What Lars said.

fsmithred (still printing with HP4L on LPT1 using devuan ascii)

P.S. There's a label on the printer with a date that says 1995.

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#4 2020-10-29 18:04:09

larsH
Member
Registered: 2020-05-05
Posts: 143  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Hi again

My printer is just as old (1997). I will just mention that printer drivers has nothing to do with 32 vs 64 bit. Most printers that worked in the old days will continue to do so. I have not heard about removed drivers if supported by CUPS. And when dealing with conservative distributions as debian (and Devuan) I am sure it will be that way all most forever

Have a nice day
Lars H

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#5 2020-10-30 05:12:06

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 141  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

Please feel free to move this to "Other topics", or elsewhere if another section is more appropriate.  Two questions and accompanying comments.  Today was my first encounter with Devuan, and the overall experience was largely positive--thank you.

1.  Printer:  effortless.  Worked very well.  Thanks to all.  Question is coming....  First:  a dozen odd (and some "old", but all 64 bit) computers running Debian, Mint 19.3, or 20.0.   A fresh install of 19.3 is accomplished just as easily as today's install of Devuan Beowulf.  No such luck, however, with Mint 20.  Reason, I guess, is because Ubuntu no longer supports 32 bit drivers for my printers, scanners, etc....all of which, themselves, work just fine, though they are a decade or so, old.  I am not flush with cash, and reluctant to discard something just because a shiny new toy exists.  I am keeping my printers and scanners, and hoping that I will continue to find a Linux version to support them, though they are connected via Win XP software, on a separate computer running that antique operating system.  Question:  How long will I be able to use Beowulf, to print, or, is the future looking just as bleak, as it does, for Mint 20 --where my devices no longer function?

2.  Sound:  Wow, felt like back in 1980 running Unix on a Dec VAX.  Very primitive, completely the contrary to the experience with Mint 16, 17....20.   This is to my way of thinking, a killer, for this OS, if it isn't possible to fix, in a forthcoming iteration.  Of course, could be user fault.  This is my first experience, and four hours later, I still haven't solved the issue.  Granted, unlike the first hour, I do have sound!!!  hurrah.  BUT, the road isn't obvious, nor does it work, simply by turning on the computer, as everything else does.   In the olden times, we had to type, for example, startx, which was a user interface to the X-Windows system.  How many users of Devuan would be pleased to know that they could see the desktop, whenever they wanted, just by typing startx ?  I don't want to type startx.  I want the desktop to work when I turn on the computer.  Ditto for sound.   More than an hour of fiddling, editing obscure files in /etc, and so on, I STILL DON"T HAVE audio, unless I open a terminal, and yes, TYPE, no, not startx, but rather, pulseaudio --check   followed by pulseaudio -D.  N.B.  (nota bene) these two commands work, and work well, however, one must not type pulseaudio -check, or pulseaudio --D.    Those hash marks, i.e. hyphens, must be spaced and elaborated, exactly as shown.  WHY?  Why must I type these two commands with their oddly asymmetric hyphens, every time I boot the computer, as if "startx", all over again?  (mind you, startx was  itself, an improvement, three decades ago, over the alternative!!!)

cheers,
caieng

Alsa is way better than pulseaudio. install alsa-utils, and enable that. Pulseaudio sucks in my opinion.  You should remove pulseaudio. Also, each release of devuan usually is supported for at least three years at least that's what I recall anyways.

Will clarify, pulseaudio is not only  bloated but its focused on newer technology. Older technology it doesn't work on as well. Typical redhat right? *cough system *cough Dumb *cough

But yeah hope you stick around for a while. smile

Next to Hyperbola, this is my favorite linux distro.

Last edited by zapper (2020-10-30 05:13:36)


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!

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#6 2020-10-31 01:20:20

stevendemetrius
Member
Registered: 2018-06-22
Posts: 9  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Caieng

If you are seeking help to resolve issues you are having with Devuan printer, scanner, and sound functionality you need to state the details about the specific problems you are having one at a time. OS version, make and model of the devices, device related applications installed and their version, what you did to install the device, how did you test the its functionality, what you expected to happen, what happened and any system messages such as errors, warnings, etc. What related information are logged in the log files.
I.E., troubleshooting information.
The information you provided is too vague making it very difficult for anyone to help.

Printer and scanners are two completely different devices. Their design, functionality, purpose, usage, and how they are installed and their related software are different. Even though both devices maybe build and sold in a single package they are still two separate devices and their install and configuration are exclusive of each other. On GUN/Linux, in the this case Devuan, it is best to first install the printer and confirm its functionality then do the same with the scanner. Do the install of each and if it does not work provide the relevant troubleshooting information so that we can help you.

To answer your printer question, Devuan like most GNU/Linux system uses the CUPS printing system to print, therefore, the useful life of your printer depends on CUPS not Devuan. Additionally, CUPS use the printers’ PPD file to properly communicate with the printer. Basically, as long as there are not related fundamental changes to CUPS the original PPD file that worked before will continue to work.
To learn more about Linux printing research the following, some include compatibility lists and drivers:
CUPS
https://www.cups.org/
Open Printing
https://openprinting.github.io/
HP Linux Imaging and Printing (HP printers and scanners)
https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing

For Linux scanning: SANE -Scanner Access Now Easy
http://www.sane-project.org/

The same goes for your sound problem: provide the relevant detailed troubleshooting information.

Making statements like “This is to my way of thinking, a killer, for this OS, if it isn't possible to fix, in a forthcoming iteration.” and similar appears to be ranting which does not encourage others to help you. The help provided here is voluntary. Reread your post and ask yourself this question. Would this encourage you help this person?

I run several Devuan print servers controlling hundreds of printers, old and new, and I’ve only had problems with WinPrinters and latest model printers. WinPrinters are deliberately designed to work only with MS Windows. For the latest model printers, extracting the PPD files from their driver package and coping it to the appropriate directory on the print server resolved the issue allowing for basic printing until a Linux package was released.

I’ve done countless install of all the previous and current stable versions of Devaun on physical and virtual machines (PMs an VMs) and found that sound just works! I too am no please with using Pulseaudio (another insane creation form the maker of ...), however, I’ll live with it until I can dedicate enough time to work on replacing it, or if some else shares a method.

I look forward to your next post which will hopefully include the relevant troubleshooting information.

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#7 2020-11-04 15:35:06

caieng
Member
Registered: 2020-10-29
Posts: 4  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

SOLVED:  sound works now, after reading RELEASE NOTES, and editing the obscure, incomprehensibly named file "00-disable-autospawn.conf", to REMOVE (unintuitive--why would anyone have to comment out a line of code to enable something to work, normal software engineering works in just the opposite fashion, edit a file to add something desired--here we are removing a constraint which prevents what we NORMALLY expect, from happening.) Devuan demands that every user insert a pound sign, " # " in a line of code in a configuration file, to be able to hear sound as expected. 
That's just too much 1960's architecture for my taste.  I am seeing cold rooms with big tape drives, and heavy security to access the wonderful IBM hardware.  NOT for me.

(Editing this silly file is certainly not required to hear music, in running Cinnamon on any other distro, that I have used, e.g. Mint 17.1, Debian Squeeze.)

Pulseaudio
- If you have no sound, make sure the following line in
   /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented as
   shown here:
   #autospawn=no

In other words, the much vaunted, highly touted "RELEASE NOTES", illustrate how that line in the file must look, AFTER editing, by each user of Devuan.   BEFORE editing, that line of text reads like this:
   autospawn=no

To listen to music, with Devuan, but not other Cinnamon versions, one must insert a pound sign into a line of text, to disable that text.

I am very keen to learn which page of Donald Knuth's "The Art of Computer Programming, volume I", corresponds to this notion, demanding that users comment out a line of code in order for a particular function to work as one normally would anticipate, upon successfully completing an installation of Devuan.

Why would several forum participants request/demand "relevant troubleshooting information", to solve this problem?

What is the difference between ADDING a pound sign in front of a line of code not required, vs, changing the code to read:
   autospawn=yes

?
What is it about "system D" that enables that collection of code to permit the user to hear music at once, upon completing the installation, vs whatever it is that Devuan uses to replace "system D", i.e. why should "system D" enable sound, but not whatever it is that Devuan is using?

caieng

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#8 2020-11-04 17:35:47

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,142  
Website

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

Why would several forum participants request/demand "relevant troubleshooting information", to solve this problem?

Because it gives me the ****ing horn. And I suppose it would also constitute diagnostic information.

caieng wrote:

What is the difference between ADDING a pound sign in front of a line of code not required, vs, changing the code to read:
   autospawn=yes

?

I think you can answer that for yourself :-)

caieng wrote:

What is it about "system D" that enables that collection of code to permit the user to hear music at once, upon completing the installation, vs whatever it is that Devuan uses to replace "system D", i.e. why should "system D" enable sound, but not whatever it is that Devuan is using?

PulseAudio usually relies on a systemd user socket & service to autostart.

And please don't spell it "system D", it really winds me up mad


Black Lives Matter

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#9 2020-11-04 17:39:45

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 429  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

FYI: the Devuan team is very small. It concentrates on removing systemd dependencies from Debian packages, the rest is taken over unchanged.

Don't expect a perfect world.

rolfie

Last edited by rolfie (2020-11-04 17:40:38)

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#10 2020-11-04 21:54:23

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 514  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Hello:

caieng wrote:

... sound works now, after reading RELEASE NOTES ...

Hmm ...

Has it occurred to you that there's a reason for the existence of the Release Notes?
Think about it for a while, you may eventually grasp the idea.

caieng wrote:

Very primitive, completely the contrary to the experience with Mint 16, 17....20
... certainly not required to hear music, in running Cinnamon on any other distro ...

I have noticed your not mentioning anyone putting a gun to your head to force you to install and use Devuan.
If, for whatever motive, it is not to your liking, I respectfully suggest you stay with Mint or choose any one of the many available options at your disposal.

caieng wrote:

Why would several forum participants request/demand "relevant troubleshooting information" ...

Because [reasons] ...

*******************************************************************************
The main one being that it is how we do things here at Dev1.
*******************************************************************************

caieng wrote:

What is it about "system D" ...

You may have not read the first few lines on the devuan.org web page:

Devuan GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd that allows users to reclaim control over their system by avoiding unnecessary entanglements and ensuring Init Freedom.

I'd say that your questions about systemd are something you have to take elsewhere.

You may not notice but I am making an effort to be as polite as possible, so I will end this post in the following manner:

***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I take exception to the tone in your posts as I consider them to be both unwarranted and out of place.
I would personally appreciate your showing more respect to the members of this forum and to those who volunteer their work to keep this site working.

***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Thank you.

A.

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#11 2020-11-04 22:40:46

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 429  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

++++

Rolfie

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#12 2020-11-05 05:29:25

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 141  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

SOLVED:  sound works now, after reading RELEASE NOTES, and editing the obscure, incomprehensibly named file "00-disable-autospawn.conf", to REMOVE (unintuitive--why would anyone have to comment out a line of code to enable something to work, normal software engineering works in just the opposite fashion, edit a file to add something desired--here we are removing a constraint which prevents what we NORMALLY expect, from happening.) Devuan demands that every user insert a pound sign, " # " in a line of code in a configuration file, to be able to hear sound as expected. 
That's just too much 1960's architecture for my taste.  I am seeing cold rooms with big tape drives, and heavy security to access the wonderful IBM hardware.  NOT for me.

(Editing this silly file is certainly not required to hear music, in running Cinnamon on any other distro, that I have used, e.g. Mint 17.1, Debian Squeeze.)

Pulseaudio
- If you have no sound, make sure the following line in
   /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented as
   shown here:
   #autospawn=no

In other words, the much vaunted, highly touted "RELEASE NOTES", illustrate how that line in the file must look, AFTER editing, by each user of Devuan.   BEFORE editing, that line of text reads like this:
   autospawn=no

To listen to music, with Devuan, but not other Cinnamon versions, one must insert a pound sign into a line of text, to disable that text.

I am very keen to learn which page of Donald Knuth's "The Art of Computer Programming, volume I", corresponds to this notion, demanding that users comment out a line of code in order for a particular function to work as one normally would anticipate, upon successfully completing an installation of Devuan.

Why would several forum participants request/demand "relevant troubleshooting information", to solve this problem?

What is the difference between ADDING a pound sign in front of a line of code not required, vs, changing the code to read:
   autospawn=yes

?
What is it about "system D" that enables that collection of code to permit the user to hear music at once, upon completing the installation, vs whatever it is that Devuan uses to replace "system D", i.e. why should "system D" enable sound, but not whatever it is that Devuan is using?

caieng


I agree with you about system dumb being crap and if you think pulseaudio is also, I would agree with that too, but yeah... this is not going anywhere good.

EDIT:

The posters   above this one, don't seem like your tone, I myself hate tones like this too, but I am trying to give you time to think.

Please take it? If possible I mean...

Last edited by zapper (2020-11-05 05:31:46)


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!

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#13 2020-11-07 14:19:17

caieng
Member
Registered: 2020-10-29
Posts: 4  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Thanks for the several comments.  Tone:
some folks dislike criticism.
Fine.  Tough.  Don't read my submissions.

Reading distro notes:   Until Devuan, never wasted one minute reading them.  Either an  OS is transparent, and works effortlessly, or it needs criticism.

Fanboy club:   I am not such a person.

I see some very good things here at Devuan, and including this forum.  I also see a couple of issues that need clarification.  I still don't have the answer to my questions about the distinction between Devuan and systemd, with respect to that obscure file,  and the need to comment out a line of code to enable sound.  How could that attribute (absence of sound on initial boot up after installation) pass inspection/quality control, prior to release of the distro?   There ought to be an explanation for this peculiarity.  Why is this feature something that Devuan developers are PROUD of?  Do the problems that I encountered relate to the Cinnamon desktop in particular?  Does printing work with Devuan, and NOT with all the other distros, because Devuan bypasses systemd, or because of the version of Cinnamon in Devuan: 3.8.8, vs Mint 19.3 :  4.4.8 ?

"That's how we do it here at..."  Nuts.  Nonsense.  Stupidity.

Tone II.  Really?  You  work with LInux, and you want someone to write soothing remarks, in a mild, temperate, inoffensive manner.  Linux, at least back in '94, was created and operated out of anger at the stupidity of society sucking on the Microsoft teat.  I did not catch on, until '98. Even then, I stayed with M$ 98->XP for a decade.

I am ANGRY.  I wasted hours trying to find what was wrong with my computers, because of stupid mistakes.  I made them, and Devuan made them.  But, not reading the release notes, was not one of those errors.

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#14 2020-11-07 16:44:23

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,142  
Website

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

I still don't have the answer to my questions about the distinction between Devuan and systemd, with respect to that obscure file,  and the need to comment out a line of code to enable sound.

I wrote:

PulseAudio usually relies on a systemd user socket & service to autostart.

caieng wrote:

How could that attribute (absence of sound on initial boot up after installation) pass inspection/quality control, prior to release of the distro?

Because audio only fails for machines with more than one sound card.


Black Lives Matter

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#15 2020-11-07 17:19:26

chris2be8
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 101  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

Reading distro notes:   Until Devuan, never wasted one minute reading them.  Either an  OS is transparent, and works effortlessly, or it needs criticism.

The release notes should be the first place to look if you do have problems. Or want to know the distro in depth.

And please allow for the fact that it's impossible to test a distro with *every* combination of hardware etc that any user could have.

Also remember that the people who built it are doing it in their own free time. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were the one being asked about something you built in your own time. Politeness will be more likely to get you helped. As will providing details of what you are doing and think is wrong.

Chris

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#16 2020-11-11 02:48:29

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 141  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

Thanks for the several comments.  Tone:
some folks dislike criticism.
Fine.  Tough.  Don't read my submissions.

Reading distro notes:   Until Devuan, never wasted one minute reading them.  Either an  OS is transparent, and works effortlessly, or it needs criticism.

Fanboy club:   I am not such a person.

I see some very good things here at Devuan, and including this forum.  I also see a couple of issues that need clarification.  I still don't have the answer to my questions about the distinction between Devuan and systemd, with respect to that obscure file,  and the need to comment out a line of code to enable sound.  How could that attribute (absence of sound on initial boot up after installation) pass inspection/quality control, prior to release of the distro?   There ought to be an explanation for this peculiarity.  Why is this feature something that Devuan developers are PROUD of?  Do the problems that I encountered relate to the Cinnamon desktop in particular?  Does printing work with Devuan, and NOT with all the other distros, because Devuan bypasses systemd, or because of the version of Cinnamon in Devuan: 3.8.8, vs Mint 19.3 :  4.4.8 ?

"That's how we do it here at..."  Nuts.  Nonsense.  Stupidity.

Tone II.  Really?  You  work with LInux, and you want someone to write soothing remarks, in a mild, temperate, inoffensive manner.  Linux, at least back in '94, was created and operated out of anger at the stupidity of society sucking on the Microsoft teat.  I did not catch on, until '98. Even then, I stayed with M$ 98->XP for a decade.

I am ANGRY.  I wasted hours trying to find what was wrong with my computers, because of stupid mistakes.  I made them, and Devuan made them.  But, not reading the release notes, was not one of those errors.

I get your angry, but this will only make people not want to help you. Try installing alsa-utils, its more efficient then pulseaudio.

By the way, what kind of printer are you using? If it is an hp printer, then install hplip, I don't know which one you use though.

By the way, I am not a devuan fanboy. I only use devuan for my gaming laptop.  For the rest I use a distro you would find terrible for your usage, given your impatience I mean...

The distro I normally use is Hyperbola a minimalist distro. If you want to say I am a fanboy for anything that would be the distro. tongue

That being said, devuan is decent but has some issues, which I fully am willing to accept. I hope someday you will learn to chill out. Life is too short to be filled with hate and angry. 

That all being said, I hope you read this before you flame anyone else. I am trying to help you as best as I can.   

To summarize, install alsa-utils via synaptic or apt, get rid of pulseaudio and reboot.  Sound should begin to work.  Okay? That's a solution to one of your problems. IF sound doesn't work after that, I will be exceedingly surprised.

Tell me if it works, and have a nice day.

Last edited by zapper (2020-11-11 02:50:26)


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!

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#17 2020-11-11 10:34:10

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 55  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Okay, there's so much horsehockey in this thread I just can't resist...



caieng wrote:

one must not type pulseaudio -check, or pulseaudio --D.    Those hash marks, i.e. hyphens, must be spaced and elaborated, exactly as shown.  WHY?

Long-form command-line switches have two hyphens, short form have one. This has been the defacto-standard for *nix applications since the dawn of time. Why? Because that's how it's always been, and because it makes parsing command-line switches in shell a lot easier.
This really is command-line GNU/Linux 101, and if you intend to use anything beyond easy-mode Ubuntu derivatives and clicky GUIs you're going to have to get used to it. 



caieng wrote:

Devuan demands that every user insert a pound sign, " # " in a line of code in a configuration file

Yes, that's the standard comment character for shell, and therefore for *nix configuration files. Again, always has been and likely always will be.

On puseaudio issues in general, the reason Devuan sometimes needs the user to configure pulseaudio is because unlike certain other distros Devuan doesn't force you to use pulseaudio.
Yes, I'm sure it could be made to work out of the box for your setup... At the expense of not working out of the box for someone else, or of making it more difficult to run without pulseaudio altogether - which is also an entirely valid configuration.



caieng wrote:

Either an  OS is transparent, and works effortlessly, or it needs criticism.

And I suppose you were disappointed the installer didn't try to converse with you in really easy words as well?

Debian, and by extension Devuan, is not and never has been designed to "work effortlessly", that's not the goal.
The goal to be able to fulfil almost every conceivable role, on almost any available hardware. Hence the slogan: "The universal operating system".
This means that you will have to *gasp* configure it to your needs, because a default that "works effortlessly" on your desktop is almost certainly inappropriate for a supercomputing cluster or an embedded network appliance.



caieng wrote:

I wasted hours trying to find what was wrong with my computers, because of stupid mistakes.  I made them, and Devuan made them.  But, not reading the release notes, was not one of those errors.

Wasting time by not reading the available documentation is very much an error, unless of course you like wasting time.
If the release notes were not intended to be read, why do you suppose someone put in the effort to write them?

I'd be inclined to make the obvious comment regarding looking gift-horses in the mouth WRT free software and volunteer developers (not to mention unwillingness to put in effort yourself), but given your attitude so far that's likely a waste of perfectly good oxygen.

Last edited by steve_v (2020-11-11 10:35:51)


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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#18 2020-11-12 22:23:16

dzhigit
Member
Registered: 2020-11-07
Posts: 5  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

caieng wrote:

SOLVED:  sound works now, after reading RELEASE NOTES, and editing the obscure, incomprehensibly named file "00-disable-autospawn.conf", to REMOVE (unintuitive--why would anyone have to comment out a line of code to enable something to work, normal software engineering works in just the opposite fashion, edit a file to add something desired--here we are removing a constraint which prevents what we NORMALLY expect, from happening.) Devuan demands that every user insert a pound sign, " # " in a line of code in a configuration file, to be able to hear sound as expected. 
That's just too much 1960's architecture for my taste.  I am seeing cold rooms with big tape drives, and heavy security to access the wonderful IBM hardware.  NOT for me.

(Editing this silly file is certainly not required to hear music, in running Cinnamon on any other distro, that I have used, e.g. Mint 17.1, Debian Squeeze.)

Pulseaudio
- If you have no sound, make sure the following line in
   /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf is commented as
   shown here:
   #autospawn=no

In other words, the much vaunted, highly touted "RELEASE NOTES", illustrate how that line in the file must look, AFTER editing, by each user of Devuan.   BEFORE editing, that line of text reads like this:
   autospawn=no

To listen to music, with Devuan, but not other Cinnamon versions, one must insert a pound sign into a line of text, to disable that text.

I am very keen to learn which page of Donald Knuth's "The Art of Computer Programming, volume I", corresponds to this notion, demanding that users comment out a line of code in order for a particular function to work as one normally would anticipate, upon successfully completing an installation of Devuan.

Why would several forum participants request/demand "relevant troubleshooting information", to solve this problem?

What is the difference between ADDING a pound sign in front of a line of code not required, vs, changing the code to read:
   autospawn=yes

?
What is it about "system D" that enables that collection of code to permit the user to hear music at once, upon completing the installation, vs whatever it is that Devuan uses to replace "system D", i.e. why should "system D" enable sound, but not whatever it is that Devuan is using?

caieng

PulseAudio needs to be started for it to work. Most distributions, including Debian, are using systemd to start PulseAudio. This is not an option in Devuan. The alternative is PulseAudio's in-built autospawn feature, which automatically starts PulseAudio when audio is played, if PulseAudio is not already running. Debian sets autospawn=no because it is using systemdumb. Most of the packages in Devuan are copied from Debian. Therefore, Devuan inherits autospawn=no from Debian. Devuan's small team of volunteers only makes the necessary changes to remove systemd. If you want autospawn=no to be commented, or autospawn=yes by default, you can persuade one of the volunteers to fork PulseAudio and repackage with that setting, or do it yourself. There is no difference between autospawn=yes and a commented autospawn=no because PulseAudio's default is autospawn=yes. That is why you comment something out in order to enable a feature, because the feature was explicitly disabled, so you are setting it back to the implied setting. In order to prevent any update from overriding that file, I created a new file, /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/01-enable-autospawn.conf, with the single line autospawn=yes. This file overrides whatever is in 00-disable-autospawn.conf because it starts with a higher alphanumeric character. AFAIK, most Devuan and anti-systemd users are using ALSA instead, and apulse can be used as a compatibility layer.

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#19 2020-11-13 00:56:26

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 141  

Re: two questions, new to Devuan

Sad to say, but I am beginning to wonder if your trying to troll us.
Please prove me wrong though, try doing this if your serious and then you may solve one problem, aka sound:
sudo apt install alsa-utils volumeicon-alsa

Then reboot and your sound should work.   As for the printer, I have no answer because I don't know which printer you are using.  need more information.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to start a flame war, but I really am becoming suspicious of your posts, they seem to be fire-starters in this thread.  And people have tried to help you and you mostly just... don't seem to care. hmm

EDIT: This is for the OP in case I wasn't clear.

Last edited by zapper (2020-11-13 00:57:01)


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