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#1 2018-06-29 23:55:53

bash64
Member
Registered: 2018-06-27
Posts: 18  

default packages

There seem to be a lot of packages not included by default.

Here is my list:
mdadm
cryptsetup
lvm2
dkms
inxi


I'd like to see these added.

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#2 2018-06-30 02:33:34

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 176  

Re: default packages

Uhh, included by default where?

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#3 2018-06-30 03:00:18

bash64
Member
Registered: 2018-06-27
Posts: 18  

Re: default packages

most of the installers do not have these and the final installed Os is lacking some of these.

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#4 2018-06-30 09:01:48

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 176  

Re: default packages

Interesting. I pretty much exclusively use the textinstaller and at least cryptsetup and mdadm (likely also lvm2) get installed. Not sure if i'd want dkms or inxi on my systems by default but i agree that cryptsetup, mdadm and lvm2 should be seen as essential and at least be on the installer CD. I wonder if the installer tries to be smart somehow and only installs them if you enter a partition setup where they are required.

Last edited by devuser (2018-06-30 09:02:28)

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#5 2018-06-30 18:41:24

bash64
Member
Registered: 2018-06-27
Posts: 18  

Re: default packages

devuser wrote:

Interesting. I pretty much exclusively use the textinstaller and at least cryptsetup and mdadm (likely also lvm2) get installed. Not sure if i'd want dkms or inxi on my systems by default but i agree that cryptsetup, mdadm and lvm2 should be seen as essential and at least be on the installer CD. I wonder if the installer tries to be smart somehow and only installs them if you enter a partition setup where they are required.


I'd say you are right.
So far , from the expert install, lvm and crypt are present but not running unless you create an encrypted volume or an lvm volume.
This really depends on the installer whether they are present or have to be installed afterwards.
I haven't found anything consistent about this.

My needs are still the same regardless of how well or poor my understanding of dev1 is at this time (I've only been at this for 3 days now, give me a break).
I need mdadm, crypt and lvm2 running at install time and I need to type in the password for the encrypted volumes. The encrypted volume will have other volumes such as lvm2 volumes in it so a reread of volumes is needed
I was very impressed with the expert install modes. They are excellent.
However, I was only able to define the encrypted volumes as that, but not able to type in the password and it worried me that it intended to format them so I backed out.

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#6 2018-06-30 19:36:51

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 176  

Re: default packages

bash64 wrote:
devuser wrote:

Interesting. I pretty much exclusively use the textinstaller and at least cryptsetup and mdadm (likely also lvm2) get installed. Not sure if i'd want dkms or inxi on my systems by default but i agree that cryptsetup, mdadm and lvm2 should be seen as essential and at least be on the installer CD. I wonder if the installer tries to be smart somehow and only installs them if you enter a partition setup where they are required.


I'd say you are right.
So far , from the expert install, lvm and crypt are present but not running unless you create an encrypted volume or an lvm volume.
This really depends on the installer whether they are present or have to be installed afterwards.
I haven't found anything consistent about this.

I guess the installer works with the assumption that whatever lvm/crypt volumes will be used by the installation will also be created by it and i very much agree that isn't optimal.

bash64 wrote:

My needs are still the same regardless of how well or poor my understanding of dev1 is at this time (I've only been at this for 3 days now, give me a break).
I need mdadm, crypt and lvm2 running at install time and I need to type in the password for the encrypted volumes. The encrypted volume will have other volumes such as lvm2 volumes in it so a reread of volumes is needed
I was very impressed with the expert install modes. They are excellent.
However, I was only able to define the encrypted volumes as that, but not able to type in the password and it worried me that it intended to format them so I backed out.

Yeah, your fears were probably quite well grounded. If they are actually present the only option i see is basically not partitioning anything at all and instead doing the mounting using the shell. Needless to say this really isn't optimal again and even if it works i don't think it'll be much fun.

Afaik the Devuan team has plans to build a new installer but before that happens i doubt much will change (just my opinion - i am not even on the dev team). Maybe there is someone who has the needed background, skill and time but at least for me it seemed easier to write my own installer from scratch than to attempt customizing the existing one. Funnily enough i am just sitting at the partition setup part. A 20kb+ and growing dialog powered shell script monster. I know it doesn't help you now but if i manage to finish this thing hacking in an "unlock - don't format" checkbox should be pretty much a 5 minute job.

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#7 2018-06-30 20:56:03

bash64
Member
Registered: 2018-06-27
Posts: 18  

Re: default packages

I anxiously await your script.
It will help a lot of users that use encryption.

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#8 2018-07-01 11:44:45

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 912  

Re: default packages

There are no plans to replace the debian-installer in the installer isos. It's an idea that's been discussed, but it would be a huge task. So yeah, if you can make a workaround for the problem, I'm sure a lot of people will be happy. This is a topic that comes up once in a while.

I do have plans (or at least a desire) to add code to the live installer for using lvm. I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

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#9 2018-07-01 14:43:48

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 176  

Re: default packages

fsmithred wrote:

it would be a huge task.

Yeah, kind of. The installation itself and most of the setup is fairly simple. The need for menu driven partitioning is what making it huge. My choice of trying to stay with shell scripting and dialog sure doesn't help it but i figure it still wouldn't be easy i had chosen a real language.

fsmithred wrote:

I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

Cool. I hope to have something to upload during the next weeks.

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#10 2018-07-01 14:58:07

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 41  

Re: default packages

I have used the default ASCII installer to install a LVM into an encrpyted volume, works fine. Was done with the RC version.

I have added an existing encrypted volume (/home on a different drive) after first boot.

Regards, rolfie

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#11 2018-07-01 15:02:26

Simplicio
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 22  

Re: default packages

I would also say that the debian-installer doesn't appear to meet my wants*, although my rather extended workaround got me to where I wanted to be, eventually.

It would be nice™ if I could set up the discs the way I wanted beforehand with lvm, encryption, and the filesystem of my choice (and I dare say some people would want raid) and 'simply' point the installer at the already pre-prepared /, /boot, /home, /var, swap etc. The disc setup could be done by booting into the live-USB/CD/DVD, and having set up the discs the way you want them, either reboot with the installer, or invoke and install from the live-USB/CD/DVD.
In my case, I believe my wanted* filesystem (NILFS2) can't be incorporated into the standard installer as there is no fsck.nilfs implemented for NILFS2
I know that, in principle, one can shell out from the installer to do stuff, but in practice, this turns out to be slightly less flexible than one would wish, especially if one is missing a few packages (and network access is not always easy).
I am nowhere near the level of competence required to modify the installer. What I want* is an installer that can use a pre-prepared disc layout, and ideally have the necessary capability (all the necessary packages) within the installer environment so that I can shell out and build the disc layout manually, point the installer at it and light the blue touchpaper. I also want the-moon-onna-stick and a unicorn that farts rainbows.

I'm also of the opinion that for most users, full-disc encryption really ought to be the default because, absent evil maids, it is a good way of  making sure that theft of a computing device doesn't mean all your secrets are no longer secret.

OK. Rant over. If there is a way of influencing installer development in useful and creative ways that do not involve demanding someone else do lots of work at my whim I'd like to be able to use it.

*I know that wants are different to needs.

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#12 2018-07-01 15:27:29

bash64
Member
Registered: 2018-06-27
Posts: 18  

Re: default packages

ok, I admit defeat at makeing unicorns that fart rainbows.
However, I spent 6mos on contract doing advanced bash shell programming for pizzahut recently.
I handled the creation of the asset management scripting.
LOTS of regex, all kinds.
So if you need help with that script let me know.
l8r

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#13 2018-07-01 17:06:27

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 176  

Re: default packages

That's great. I guess i'll try setup  a public repo then as soon as possible then. Just want to do a couple logic changes first (to not waste peoples time with trying to understand something that's about to change anyways) and split up the iso build script so it's less of a wall of text.

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