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#1 2018-06-15 20:51:34

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 759  

Refracta no-dbus experiment

Refracta no-dbus build (experiment)

The subject of running without dbus comes up from time to time in various places. I decided to try it and see how far I could get. I started with a debootstrap install of devuan ascii, pinned dbus to a priority of -1, and proceeded to make the same changes as I do to make Refracta live isos. Normally, the Refracta isos use xfce, but that's not possible without dbus.

I was surprised to see how much did install without dbus. So I thought I'd share it. This build uses openbox, lxpanel, lxterminal and spacefm.
Maybe someone will want to use it. Maybe it will inspire someone else to do something better. Feeback is welcome.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/file … 2_0156.iso

sha256sum:
633634c3ac2beb06252b29bc78b3135f5f5ded473a72f42e5dc6c17d326d1f17

Login/Password:

user/user
root/root


No display manager. Run 'startx' to get a desktop.

Edit: I excluded Recommends. That might make a big difference if you're trying to install packages without pulling in dbus.
echo "APT::Install-Recommends \"no\";" > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/norecommends


# These can be installed without dbus and without libsystemd0
rsync bash-completion busybox kbd locales firmware-linux-free deborphan unzip lvm2 cryptsetup sshfs \
hwinfo alsa-utils moc pppoeconf pppconfig pppoe ntfs-3g dosfstools curl \
live-boot live-config live-boot-initramfs-tools live-config-sysvinit squashfs-tools xorriso pmount pv \
syslinux syslinux-common syslinux-utils isolinux  xz-utils gdisk parted hexedit iftop smartmontools lm-sensors \
hdparm testdisk fdupes irssi iptraf ethtool  scrot wipe mlocate wireless-tools wpasupplicant \ # get libdbus-1-3 here
gddrescue screen feh hddtemp p7zip-full partimage pm-utils sysv-rc-conf tree wodim htop bzip2 whois \
lsb-release file setnet net-tools cifs-utils mdadm arp-scan \
dialog live-boot-doc live-config-doc refractainstaller-base refractasnapshot-base \
btrfs-tools btrfs-progs pciutils psmisc rename tcpd usbutils uuid-runtime dnsutils \
eject telnet usbutils util-linux-locales vrms mutt sudo

# These were installed after allowing libsystemd0
xorg openbox spacefm lxterminal lxpanel obconf lxappearance lxappearance-obconf lxrandr \
linux-headers-4.9.0-6-amd64 build-essential xserver-xorg-legacy xserver-xephyr xterm aptitude \
icewm xarchiver leafpad links2 xpdf mpv yad ***grub-of-your-choice***
x11vnc xtightvncviewer grsync bleachbit meld asunder winff \
mplayer ffmpeg volumeicon-alsa tilda geeqie dkms transmission-gtk gftp \
xserver-xorg-video-intel xscreensaver xinput libnotify-bin hexchat \
abiword hardinfo gdmap gimp geany firejail firefox-esr

deadbeef http://sourceforge.net/projects/deadbee … b/download
firemenu https://sourceforge.net/projects/refrac … nu-1.2.deb
refracta2usb https://sourceforge.net/projects/refrac … -2.3.6.deb

These will NOT install. (and probably a lot more that I didn't try.)
audacious xfburn wicd connman libpam-elogind synaptic gdebi

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#2 2018-06-16 12:00:30

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

Thanks red i will have to give it a try. So is the systemd shim used to install those packages under libsystemd0 but still not using dbus?

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#3 2018-06-16 12:18:30

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 759  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

No systemd-shim. The only package with systemd in its name is libsystemd0, and that was needed for xorg.

There's a full package list in the root of the iso.

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#4 2018-06-16 14:08:23

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

Ive given the live iso a try on my laptop and working fine. Internet and browser worked fine although i was just using phone usb0 connection, yet to test the wireless capability.

I will give this a try on a partition for sure.

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#5 2018-06-17 19:35:58

msi
Member
Registered: 2017-02-04
Posts: 113  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

fsmithred wrote:

The subject of running without dbus comes up from time to time in various places.

One of those places being the Friends of Devuan Wiki: https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/co … e_software

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#6 2018-06-17 19:43:29

devuser
Member
Registered: 2018-04-30
Posts: 176  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

Very interesting post. I thought spacefm depended on dbus. If that isn't the case i am down to replacing audacious. Pretty neat.

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#7 2018-06-17 21:51:09

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 759  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

Forgot to mention that I excluded Recommends.

msi, you can add firefox-esr to the list. And maybe audacity under its own category - audio editing

FWIW: Some previous versions of Refracta (the regular one, with xfce) had deadbeef. At some point, we switched to audacious because it was in the repo.

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#8 2018-06-18 07:40:57

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 169  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

The only reason I can see for libsystemd0 being a dependency for X is the systemd-logind support.  This can be obviously be disabled at build time. I wonder if X breaks if the lib is missing.  If not and it's just the case of a harmless error, it may be enough to just remove it from the control file?

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#9 2018-06-18 13:30:49

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

I like to use palemoon browser but it uses dbus-glib and in the interest of this thread....

Found this here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic … yLwUCYpBbU

Might be worth a try.

Walter Dnes    
16/11/2016
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:52:50PM +0000, Jorge Almeida wrote

> Good to know. I'm currently testing  openbox without dbus-launch. No
> problem yet.
>
> It would be great to have some WiKi pages telling what some USE flag
> really do to particular packages, e.g, what does it mean to run
> firefox without dbus.

  The current Pale Moon requires glib-dbus.  I do my own custom builds
of Pale Moon for my personal use without dbus.  I also have an ancient
32-bit-only Atom netbook.  dbus is required for Necko-Wifi and Wakelock
in Pale Moon, and presumably also in Firefox...

Necko-Wifi - allows improved geo-location if you have wifi, which most
PCs have, even newer desktops.  It works by scanning SSIDs in your
vicinity and comparing against a master global database.  The local data
has to be sent off to a master database (e.g. Google) for the comparison.

Wakelock - is a generic API for grabbing a resource and not letting go
of it... https://www.w3.org/TR/wake-lock-use-cases/  It's mostly used
in mobile apps, but on the desktop it's used to disable the screensaver
while a long video is playing.

  If you can do without Necko-Wifi and Wakelock, you don't need dbus.
Let me know off-list if you need any help custom-building Pale Moon.
You can also join the Pale Moon web forum https://forum.palemoon.org/
The linux section is https://forum.palemoon.org/viewforum.php?f=37

--
Walter Dnes <walt...@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

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#10 2018-06-18 20:36:03

siva
Member
Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 151  
Website

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

@fsr: awesome project.  I have the same goal ^_^

@panopticon: that sounds like a much more desirable palemoon.  I hate bloat.

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#11 2018-06-27 12:49:45

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

Sorry i forgot to report back, i have this nodbus refracta spin working fine on a partition on my hard drive. I use old hardware so i dont really have any issues with it. Theming was a bit problematic in regards to icons, but i think that is my problem. I followed the github page to install the Suru icon set with meson and ninja but seem to be missing some icons here and there, hardcoded not working and such. Meson build in Devuan repo is not suited to this icon set so i had to manually install the latest meson build with deps, so possibly this is the issue in itself, maybe someone else may have or has had better luck than me. To add, would this be a dbus issue with icons not displaying as they should? I will have to try another icon set like paper, papirus or faenza icons and see if i get the same issue with the panel and home directories showing only adwaita/gnome in some areas. Ill post more another day, in the mean time take this post with a grain of salt.

https://github.com/snwh/suru-icon-theme

Last edited by Panopticon (2018-06-27 12:54:47)

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#12 2018-06-27 13:09:58

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 106  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

Just tried paper icons and they work fine and populate all areas, so must be something wrong with the Suru icons, probably not suited to Devuan only Ubuntu.

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#13 2018-06-28 20:42:49

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 759  

Re: Refracta no-dbus experiment

For the icon sets that aren't working, check their Recommends, which are excluded by default. Something is probably missing.

If you want icons on the desktop and a background image, the easiest way to do it is to set spacefm to control the desktop.

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