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#801 Re: Devuan » Why are systemd files present in Devuan? » 2021-09-09 05:25:12
A different take on this discussion, try seeing it this way. IBM saw linux as possibly being their baby, so proceeded to help themselves, systemd was a simple business decision. The init system is the perfect place to start to gain control of linux, note all the bits and pieces that have followed. They all share one common trait, they are all for control of your computer, whether it be networking IO or FS. Also note the existing systems normally operated perfectly, but are just getting swept aside. The damning thing is Redhat has been profitable while they have done it, so they have made good money wrecking our system., they are laughing all the way to the bank. {>_<}
Let me put this in simpler terms then, or if you prefer, my words:
Redhat and IBM both have one thing in common, they are purely motivated by an insatiable lust for power.
Thus, IBM bought Redhat for this reason...
Thus, I really would like to see their leaders swallowed by the earth.
Oh well, I can dream...
#802 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-09-08 01:06:14
Sorry, I did not specify a release date. I prefer quality and flexibility over deadlines. As you stated in the Issue you submitted, " its ready, when its ready.
" . But that's a hard line answer, and I understand it is not helpful. So allow me to answer you in an informative way that does not obligate me.
Progress is directly linked to my availability (free time). I'll try my best to have it ready before the end of the month, hopefully sooner depending on time, energy and coffee. The largest number of issues are with the Time & Date tool. If it is the cause of much delay. I will either leave it out of the build or just set NoDisplay=true in it's .desktop file.
I do feel the Time & Date tool is important because it allows control of the date/time/timezone without having to add even more dependencies to the system. Also it seems many of the newer Graphical time set tools are simply a front end for timedatectl (systemd)
Excellent to hear!
End of the month is definitely a good answer if its possible.
Thank you, and feel free to lock that issue whenever, since you seem to be working on it.
Will time and date have a possibility to be made bold in the future? Not needed, but would be nice, still, I would rather it be released sooner then later even if that isn't an opiton.
And yes, that mess from redhat is hell...
I consider most of redhat's trash to be garbage. Systemd, dbus, networkmanager pulseaudio, pipewire, avahi, and stuff that those packages depend on, the libraries that redhat develops for them, is really, really annoying.
That all being said, I think I am in good company at least wirh regard to system dumb... I call it that, because it is so bloated its a stupid design. 
Anywho, thanks again!
#803 Re: Off-topic » Troll appreciation thread » 2021-09-08 00:56:58
zapper wrote:andyprough wrote:This guy's shtick is so boring. I don't mind a good troll, but at least have some talent. Nothing more boring than a loud, no-talent troll.
I mean, if he was spouting nonsense, like the don king troll and not being hateful, I would enjoy it big time.
But this is just...
a waste of time...
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102
Scroll down till you see the don king troll.
Actually looks like this one fits the "Bustr troll" description from your link:
"The Bustr. Bustrs are obsessive Bitters by whom you could practically set your watch. A Bustr never forgets, never forgives, and holds a grudge until the day it dies. Also a variant of Agenda trolls, Bustrs typically move from forum to forum complaining about the objects of their ire, often cutting and pasting age-old diatribes that have little meaning to most of their audiences. Most Bustrs are relatively incoherent, though a few of the more lucid ones are potentially dangerous stalkers."I was surprised not to see the type of trolling that I do described on that page, as it was otherwise quite comprehensive. I like to troll with a bit of humor - most trolls are too serious.
Yeah, I meant, I prefer trolls who are ridiculous and spout gibberish and nonsense.
Like the Don King troll... would have been a funny one to be.
I meant, if he trolled like Don King, I might have found entertainment...
Although when people spout gibberish enough, it does make you feel like you lost brain cells... 
But nope, he choose to be a kind that is dull, in my opinion anyways.
That was my point, I guess.
Either way, meh...
I have lost interest.
Btw, on an unrelated note, I have emailed you, did your old email die, or have you lost interest in chatting with me.
Same one as before, just a heads up.
#804 Off-topic » Troll appreciation thread » 2021-09-08 00:22:41
- zapper
- Replies: 15
This guy's shtick is so boring. I don't mind a good troll, but at least have some talent. Nothing more boring than a loud, no-talent troll.
I mean, if he was spouting nonsense, like the don king troll and not being hateful, I would enjoy it big time.
But this is just...
a waste of time...
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102
Scroll down till you see the don king troll.
#805 Re: Installation » To Ralph And Some Others » 2021-09-07 19:56:20
...
Yeah... was this really necessary?
#806 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-09-07 17:32:49
zapper. JWM Kit needs a little bit of polishing before I can make a stable release. I have a list of issues and I mark them off as I go. When I finish the list I will make a stable release. Of course if any big issues are discovered before I finish they will be added to the list.
Thanks for the feedback and your Patience.
Alrighty, good to know. I am curious how much longer it will be though before it is released, aka, like a month or w/e, but thanks for the update. 
#807 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-09-06 23:03:57
Hey, JWMKIT, I wondered if you can make a tar release, so Hyperbola devs could add it to their repository, also btw, if you do this, I suppose debian could also and other stable release operating systems.
So yeah, I would appreciate it if you made a new release on this soon. On your codeberg.org repo, I mean.
Oh and by the way, huge note to make,
doas has a way to bypass for certain commands how to activate certain commands in regular user mode.
So, I can actually suspend or poweroff easily now.
#808 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-08-31 20:04:19
Zapper, I'm glad you found something that works and hope it's a good solution for you. I may of been wrong in my previous post about needing to change the .desktop for JWMKit Logout as your links to this app are probably in the static part of the menu and the tray. In this case you need to make the changes to it with both the Tray and Menu tools. Sorry about that, but I assume you figured this out already.
I'll also make the assumption that since my app does not support doas (which I've been hearing a lot about lately) that you are just calling jwmkit_logout with doas instead of using a feature built into the logout app. Which I guess would work just as well.
Now I need to add doas support to jwmkit_logout. . . I think I may take another approach and just allow the user specify the specific logout commands they want.
Semi figured it out, not completely, but its a huge improvement.
Yes, I called it with doas instead. heh...
sakura -e doas /sbin/poweroff
sakura -e doas /sbin/reboot
That's how I activate it currently.
Its fine atm, till a better solution appears.
#809 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-08-31 13:26:50
Zapper, you need to start jwmkit_logout with the correct parameters. The default is to use consolekit, but It's only one option and not truly dependent on it. You can tell it to work differently, but your system will need to be configured to work with one of the options.
The following examples all use /sbin/reboot, and /sbin/poweroff
jwmkit_logout gksu ------ will use gksu
jwmkit_logout sudo ------ will use sudo
jwmkit_logout nosu ----- will just issue the /sbin/poweroff /sbin/reboot commands without out asking for root permissioncheck here for more info
logout parametersTest it by starting jwmkit_logout from the terminal, and when you find a working solution use jwmkit_freedesktops to change the command line in the .desktop file so it will affect your menus.
I hope this helps.
It helps somewhat, yes, but how do I make it the default, I guess?
I apologize if you gave me the answer already and I am unaware... not an expert, aka.
Update: I got it functioning via doas, not sure how to do it without root, but if it has any security risks, it may be better off anyways.
That being said, I appreciate your work!
You have no idea how much this helps me.
#810 Re: Devuan » Hasn't Devuan started to roll yet? » 2021-08-31 00:35:07
Considering how stable people say devuan chimaera is, I would say probably less than a year and it will be stable.
If nothing else though, looking at the difference in release dates will give you a good idea.
But yeah, when its ready is the official answer.
#811 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-08-31 00:29:09
Puppy Linux packages of JWM Kit have been updated and uploaded. Both FOSSA (Ubuntu based) and SLACKO (Slackware based) versions.
If you already downloaded the FOSSA version please download again. It was an old version. I also advise uninstalling the old version before installing this one. Sorry about that
Actually, I was using Hyperbola and using the jwmkit archbuild...
The newer one from codeberg I used...
I would assume it works well even for devuan.
Thanks in advance for asking though and I appreciate you are working on the keybindings situation.
I also like that shutdown, poweroff and logout don't have any stupid redhat depends... such as dbus, elogind, etc...
Unrelated, but anything I use in Hyperbola almost always works in Devuan.
Edit: it seems I might be wrong, I just checked and the shutdown function doesn't work without dbus or consolekit or elogind, atm...
logout works, but poweroff/reboot not so much yet. The buttons appeared for it, but clicking on it hasn't done anything... I wonder what went wrong.
just a heads up. PS, terminal emulator lets me use superuser rights to shut it down with poweroff or reboot. So I know that's not the problem.
But either way, its nice to have most of the features anyways.
Still, if you feel like fixing for me, let me know, aka, a dbusless and consolekitless/elogindless fix.
#812 Re: Off-topic » What other distro are you using (besides devuan)? » 2021-08-30 19:56:55
zapper wrote:andyprough wrote:No, I decided to start with glibc as it gave me the best chance of running with the most software. I'm going to try the musl version soon and see if Bedrock Linux with the Devuan Ceres strata will install on top of it.
I used to have interest in voidlinux myself, for gaming, but since I have stopped doing so, and Voidlinux switched back to OpenSSL, it has lost any purpose of me wanting to use it, for anything.
I had heard that too, zap, but I found that libressl is still available and there are instructions for installing it. I guess libressl just lost its default status to openssl is all that happened. Another thing that would be of interest to you is that unless you use certain web browsers or desktop environments, a base installation of Void seems to run without dbus.
I'll have to figure out how to find and remove all the non-free firmware it installs with and how to install Linux libre. Should be able to libretize it.
Void can work without dbus? I am surprised, I didn't know this... hmm.
Do you know if they plan to remove libressl in the future completely? Regardless, for me its Hyperbola or bust at this point.
#813 Re: Off-topic » What other distro are you using (besides devuan)? » 2021-08-30 12:17:46
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:andyprough wrote:it's just cruising along at 250mb
Is that the musl libc version? I've recently installed that myself but it's at the bare console stage atm.
No, I decided to start with glibc as it gave me the best chance of running with the most software. I'm going to try the musl version soon and see if Bedrock Linux with the Devuan Ceres strata will install on top of it.
I used to have interest in voidlinux myself, for gaming, but since I have stopped doing so, and Voidlinux switched back to OpenSSL, it has lost any purpose of me wanting to use it, for anything.
#814 Re: Installation » Someone Removed My Bug Report » 2021-08-30 12:13:34
Someone has removed my bug report from the bug tracker based on a personal conflict, and shadow-banned me from the developers mailing list, he doesn't even care about hundreds of users who will boot to face a blocked networking, the time and effort and the fact that they might leave instead of attempting a solution. This distro is a joke.
https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=606
I'm not the first developer to rant about poor decisions but @golinux can't act like grown-ups
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/2 … a1.en.html
Someone please delete my account plus all my posts, I've already changed my email into a non-existent email.
Take it easy man, your just hurting yourself with that temper...
I have been there, but raging will only hurt you in the long run.
I must admit, I don't use devuan as much as I used to, but man, you seem on edge.
Please seek help, no one wants to see you bury yourself.
Okay? Please?
It really isn't worth losing your marbles... trust me.
Anywho, hope you have a better rest of the week.
#815 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-08-30 12:09:15
definitely is an improvement, logout, shutdown, reboot, are now easier to access, thank you! not to mention, the application menu among other things...
Although, keybindings were somewhat tricky to do in your setup, but still its a huge improvement.
All in all, good job!
#816 Re: Off-topic » s6's Laurent Bercot plans "last piece of full alternative to systemd" » 2021-08-26 02:54:45
I'm hoping @andyprough can give use his thoughts on s6 v runit speed.
My 2 cents: Devuan + runit is very fast to boot up on an Xfce desktop installation. Artix + s6 was faster on the same PC. I would guess (relying on my memory of when I had Artix installed, 1.5 years ago) that Artix + s6 felt like an order of magnitude faster, but both are so quick that we're only really talking about a difference of a few seconds. Might be a different story, in favour of s6, for a server installation?
Just in general I wondered what the difference was.
Also, which is a larger package would be interesting too.
#817 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Wicd in Chimaera (It's not, but...) » 2021-08-25 14:11:08
Is it wise to use wicd now that Python2 is obsolete? https://packages.debian.org/experimental/python3-wicd might be a better idea even if it's from experimental.
Depends on if tauthon is added to devuan's repos which would mean it would exist in debian too.
Tauthon is the continuation of python2...
If its in debian's repos, it may not be a problem to use wicd.
That being said, dhcpcd-gtk is the better option if you have wpa_supplicant and dhcpcd working properly.
They are at least updated more than wicd/wicd-gtk.
#818 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Wicd in Chimaera (It's not, but...) » 2021-08-23 07:13:08
PLEASE keep this thread focused on the possibility of running wicd in Chimaera. Does it work for you? What issues if any? Is it secure? Report your experiences here.
Yeah... my bad... I have not tried chimaera's wicd yet, last I tried was beowulf and it worked there.
#819 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Wicd in Chimaera (It's not, but...) » 2021-08-23 03:32:14
That answer is non -responsive. This thread is about wicd in Chimaera not about using Debian repositories directly which btw is not a good idea but then you get to keep all the pieces.
Please keep on-topic going forward as being able to use wicd safely will be important to many upgrading to Chimaera.
Using debian repositories directly in devuan sounds... nutty to me.
But sometimes it works, some applications work fine that way, such as palemoon and wine... last I checked anyways.
#820 Re: Off-topic » s6's Laurent Bercot plans "last piece of full alternative to systemd" » 2021-08-13 22:26:45
dvnUsr wrote:Laurent Bercot now has a sponsor ...
Update: the project has found a sponsor! Expect more news in this space in the months to come.
...
My estimate is that it needs about one year of work...That's some great news right there.
Begs the question - let's say Bercot finishes the work in the next year, and s6 really does turn into the "ideal service manager". What then for Devuan? Start offering it as an alternative init? Making it the default init would seem the appropriate response if it does all that he claims it will.
And what will happen with Debian and any distros that thumb their nose at their users and continue to push a technology with increasingly inferior performance on them? At some point the wrath of the users will become palpable.
Full disclosure - I used s6 for a lengthy test run of a couple months, and yes what you heard is true - it's so fast it should be illegal.
Is it faster and more lightweight than Runit? That would be surprising if so!
#821 Re: Devuan Derivatives » An example of how Trinity Desktop Env (TDE) can look on Devuan ASCII » 2021-08-13 22:24:24
Micronaut wrote:Every time I have asked about Trinity desktop in any Linux forum I see these claims that it is hugely insecure due to being such an old code base and no one with any sense would dare use it.
This is the same ignorant claim made against Pale Moon browser. As long as it's maintained with bug and security fixes, it's no more insecure than any other comparable app. (Unless there's something about TDE I don't know yet.)
Micronaut wrote:Second, is this claim of 'ancient code' remotely true? Just because they forked it from KDE 3.x doesn't mean they haven't fixed any bugs since then. That's the point of the fork, to get control of the code.
You answered your own question.
Agree with you wholeheartedly Ron,
that being said, some code that the palemoon devs use is newer, also, they deprecated jetpack at one point.
Which I fully agree with, due to the nature of its bloat.
I don't use palemoon btw, I use a fork of Basilisk Browser.
But yeah, they focus on stability and security, both bug fixes and security fixes on both their projects, Basilisk Browser and Palemoon.
On the subject of Trinity Desktop, KDE3 may be older, but imo, the newer KDE is way too much stimula for me, even KDE3 is a bit too much sometimes.
Although I think Trinity Desktop looks cool, for some reason, I have wanted to go for a more arcane since maybe more than half a year ago? I think?
I like using low amount of cpu for my WM or DE, thus I use JWM full time now, helps battery life.
But if I had to choose a DE on devuan, Trinity would be it.
My only reason not using any DE, they bloated, and in Trinity Desktop's case, it requires some crap... dbus for example...
Four of my laptops use Hyperbola now though. They are the ones I use most, and the newest, not counting that thinkpenguin one that is falling apart that I never use.
Hinge breaking, etc...
I have probably said way more than required, but yeah, I like my system to be as minimal as possible, within reason.
Stuff redhat tries to cram into GNU and Linux, is mostly not within reason, dbus, systemd, networkmanager, pulseaudio, pipewire, avahi, etc...
I use devuan much less than I used to, but its still interesting to see what people do here, thus I remain on here.
It's good you guys are around though, the more init freedom projects, the better!
#822 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2021-08-07 18:41:38
take into account that all the post that said somethig hard but true.. is banned as "are you tyrolling" .. interesting from Devuan forum administrations..
the problem is not Debian .. the problem is the position of the Devuan conclave.. it must work aside with Debian cos it depends of debian ..
antix team is a good aproach.. +1 for.. but i guess is more an idea of anitx/mxlinux team rather an idea of devuan teams.. that's the point
CAN YOU GUYS CHANGE THEIR MIND, well i back to work.. i must talk with tdenetwork packagers.. i found some details in the php packages.. and i remade many of them fixed for Devuan
???
I must have missed something...
Although it would be awesome if devuan had enough devs to maintain devuan without needing to fork debian.
Not the reality yet though, but someday maybe!
#823 Re: Installation » Beowulf Live Image Booting Problem » 2021-08-07 18:36:28
zapper wrote:ixp123 wrote:Specs,
Mobo: Asrock Z77 Extreme 4
CPU: i7-3770k
GPU: Radeon RX 570Here's an imgur link with a pic: https://imgur.com/a/cvIm9RZ
I don't think I have ever seen that issue...
There is an intel processor called that, its ivy bridge I noticed when I did a search, but when I looked for Asrock, Z77 Extreme 4, I realized it must be an amd, judging by the rest of the info...
EDIT: I think I spoke too soon...
I would check to see if hazardous boot is on, its technically called secure boot, but I don't think that name makes any sense.
When the hazardousboot/secureboot is on, it gives some operating systems a hard time... some linux distros operate this way alas...
Also, do you need the Radeon GPU? If not, I think intel processors come with their own version. Which in ivy bridge requires no blobs.
This would also be more likely to work in my experience.
No, soon as I got the motherboard and essentially rebuilt my PC, I made sure to turn secure boot off, and I checked just now and it's off
If that's the case, your image must be broken, I think...
I would try to reburn it such as this:
sudo dd if=~/folderwhereyourisois/your.iso of=/dev/sdx bs=8M; status=progress sync
if you don't see /dev/sdx, then make it whatever your usb is seen as,
which you check by using lsblk.
If you know this, I apologize, I just wanted to make sure I explained myself... its a habit.
Just curious, but how did you burn your devuan image before? I just wondered in general...
hope this helps!
Also, glad to see you knew to turn off that feature known as secure boot.
#824 Re: Installation » Beowulf Live Image Booting Problem » 2021-08-07 03:22:02
chris2be8 wrote:What make and model of system is it? CPU, motherboard, manufacturer, etc? Are you booting from a USB drive or a DVD? In either case what model?
Do any messages come out during the boot process?
If you have more than one system does it respond to pings from another system? If so can you log on to it over the network?
Exactly what message came out about the "live-boot" package when booting the minimal install? Can you take a photo of the screen and post it somewhere?Chris
Specs,
Mobo: Asrock Z77 Extreme 4
CPU: i7-3770k
GPU: Radeon RX 570Here's an imgur link with a pic: https://imgur.com/a/cvIm9RZ
I don't think I have ever seen that issue...
There is an intel processor called that, its ivy bridge I noticed when I did a search, but when I looked for Asrock, Z77 Extreme 4, I realized it must be an amd, judging by the rest of the info...
EDIT: I think I spoke too soon...
I would check to see if hazardous boot is on, its technically called secure boot, but I don't think that name makes any sense.
When the hazardousboot/secureboot is on, it gives some operating systems a hard time... some linux distros operate this way alas...
Also, do you need the Radeon GPU? If not, I think intel processors come with their own version. Which in ivy bridge requires no blobs.
This would also be more likely to work in my experience.
#825 Re: Installation » Beowulf Live Image Booting Problem » 2021-08-06 15:30:58
Did you check that your download/s was/were good?
(Personally, never had a problem with the 'live' image.)
Possibly, your graphics aren't supported, but rare these days.
Check all physical connections, etc.
Yeah, but keep in mind, intel and amd keep pushing more crap into their processors...
More binary blobs/proprietary requirements, etc...
That being said, I have never had problems installing devuan either unless I broke the image, aka it didn't burn properly, or broke the drive it was installed on...
Both of which has not happened in a very long time... since I started using dd for burning images to usbs.
lsblk, is a must for dd though...
Thus I say, caution is wise.
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