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Devuan follows the packages as they are in Debian except where changes are required to remove the systemd garbage
But not when new packages or more extensive changes are needed to have things actually work properly without systemd. It's always "remove garbage" or "sanitise", never "fix", "improve" or "add alternative".
So long as this attitude persists, every Devuan release will have less stuff that works, less functionality, and less user choice.
That's not progress, it's regression. It's the surgeon whose answer to every problem is "amputate", because that's what worked in 1856 and administering even over-the-counter treatments might require more effort.
OpenRC gets little attention in Debian, because it solves problems Debian doesn't have. They don't need a recent version with user-services, they have systemd. We don't.
There is nothing whatsoever preventing Devuan from backporting a newer openrc release or including one of the many other available solutions to user-services, besides this ridiculous "we just follow Debian" policy... Which for some reason only appears to apply in a subtractive sense - changes are always removing something from upstream Debian, never adding, never improving.
Any time anyone suggests something be added to make Devuan better, the response is the same - "get it accepted into Debian first"... Even when the thing in question has bugger-all chance of being packaged in Debian because it's completely irrelevant to a systemd-based distribution.
This is essentially just stonewalling, and it's no surprise nobody is volunteering for anything when it's the default response to Devuan-specific RFPs and ITPs.
Works with Waterfox, but not LibreWolf. On the Chrome side, I know that Chrome, Edge and Chromium work
Then your problem is almost certainly the anti-fingerprinting "hardening" Librewolf applies, and you'd be best asking in their support channels. I would not be at all surprised if Librewolf blocks APIs used to probe audio hardware for "privacy" reasons.
It is all in the web browser
...
Soundfonts and software synths aren't necessary
does not support MIDI connection, all the audio backing tracks we offer are real recordings
No synth, no hardware MIDI port or passthrough support == not MIDI, just playing audio clips in the browser.
If you want an actual MIDI sequencer, with notation editor and support for hardware MIDI connections to real instruments, I recommend rosegarden.
If you're set on $commercial_web_app, then you'll probably have to go through $commercial_support. Tomplay doesn't do anything with MIDI, and as far as I can tell Flowkey uses their own proprietary browser extension.
The chances of anyone else in here being familiar enough with those products (and on an "unsupported" platform at that) to offer support are slim.
To return to your original question:
what you describe now seems like it may be a timing issue during start-up?
I agree. Either that or something is grabbing the raw ALSA device before pipewire gets it.
I will try to take a look.
So, what did you see?
Which one of the many confusing unofficial user-contributed solutions (still all we have
) are you using to start pipewire?
In general, I suggest the upstream documentation and the Gentoo wiki for pipewire information (since Devuan has effectively none), taking note of things like:
There is no standardized non-systemd way to start PipeWire services - pipewire, pipewire-pulse and wireplumber - when starting a graphical shell, and users need to choose the correct approach based on how their graphical environment is started.
and:
Important
PipeWire must be started before anything that might try to connect to any sound input or output, such as a volume monitoring applet.
Here is the difference between Debian and Devuan, why not to improve init?
Indeed, and that's a question that has bamboozled me for years.
As far as I can tell, Devuan 100% reactive, rather than proactive. Upstreams leaning on user-services has been a known problem for years, other distros have been developing solutions and exploring alternatives.
Devuan just waits. Waits to see what Debian does, waits to find out what the next Debian release breaks, waits to see what packages will be "banned" rather than fixed.
We could have openrc user-services, but we don't, "because Debian". Because this isn't really a distribution in it's own right, it's a Debian "respin" and 99.99% of packages are verbatim pulls from the Debian repos.
That's fine when you stick to the Debian way of doing things, but deviating on something as foundational as systemd and then refusing to deviate on potential fixes and replacements... Mark my words: when KDE depends on systemd, Devuan will just "ban" it, loose yet another major package, and slide further into irrelevance.
Pretty much every patch or alternative implementation that has found it's way into Devuan came from another distro (usually Gentoo, e.g. elogind, eudev, opentmpfiles), I'm probably missing some minor tweaks, but the fact I can't name a single significant systemd-free solution invented by this systemd-free distro is concerning to say the least.
Devuan isn't about finding alternatives to systemd, it's about clinging stubbornly to systems long abandoned by everyone else, then shouting at the weather like senile old fools when the rest of the world moves on. Compare the post-count for "here's a cool new feature in Devuan" to "bastards at $outgroup changed something again, the world is going to shit, bah humbug" and the direction is pretty clear - wilful fossilisation.
Most of that is a recent development too, FDN went downhill pretty steeply after the "official" admin takeover.
To be fair much of the aggravation is due to anti-ai defences, but if the result is that obnoxious for humans you're doing something very wrong.
because open source drivers is better
Yes, much. I got tired of the constant jank and driver-kernel incompatibilities. amdgpu just works, and it's included in the kernel.
are play games?
Sure, when I have time. Mostly stuff a few years old though.
RX 6700 XT is good for modern gaming
It's getting old now by "gamer" standards, but it's adequate so long as you don't want raytracing.
What or who is LQ and FDN?
LinuxQuestions.org, Forums.Debian.Net.
LQ is fine, though I haven't been there in a while. For some distros (most notably Slackware), it's their primary forum.
why there is no support for user services in openrc?
There is. The version of openrc in Devuan is, as usual, many versions behind.
I found that Avidemux can do most of the things that Handbrake can, with a better interface too.
Avidemux is a video encoding swiss-army-knife, handbrake started out as (and to some extent still is) a specialised tool for ripping DVDs. That's a good part of why the interface is a bit strange for general transcoding tasks.
I haven't used either in a while, but back when ripping DVDs was a common thing handbrake was faster than anything else by a significant margin.
all strong sides of Gentoo equalize by time for detailed tuning and compilation
I find the benefit you get from any given activity is usually proportional to the time and effort you put into it. Only you can define your comfortable compromise on that sliding-scale from "out of the box, no effort" to "full control, much work".
OTOH, once you do have things set up the way you want, day-to-day Gentoo is pretty much just Arch (or any other rolling-release distro), except updates take longer to install, your PC doubles as a space-heater, and the community is far less obnoxious. ![]()
my got to be twenty-five years of using it now since the pre-1.0 days
You and me both. I do like KDE, (even the current iteration) but the development model is utterly infuriating. Sadly, warts and all, I'm not convinced there's a better "full DE" option right now.
resources the damn thing used for doing next to basically nothing
It's still not terrible (and still better than GNOME), but only if you get quite brutal ripping out the worst offenders *cough* akonadi.
Bare plasma without all the chaff is comparable to current XFCE IME.
Who knows if the Sonic people can gather enough momentum to get a fork going
I tried it out a little while back, and I can say it at least compiles and runs (or master did at that moment in time) on Gentoo. Currently I'm just cherry-picking a couple of changes on top of upstream plasma, because I'm too lazy to write proper ebuilds and untangle the KDE apps / frameworks dependencies.
TDE
Yes... But also no. QT3 is long dead, and not entirely without reason. Security support might as well be nill, and no modern applications target it so you end up with a pretty horrific mix of QT3,5,6 & a bit of GTK to boot.
I try to stick to no more than 2 clashing GUI toolkits where I can.
it could be a sign of what's to come
I'd say "definitely is", and probably soon. IME KDE will do what they always do - death by a thousand bugs. Let [thing they want gone] rot until the userbase is sufficiently annoyed, then trot out a replacement that requires [thing they want to depend on] and use it as justification for never fixing what used to work...
Just like X11 support and the "x11-only never ever fix these, they're meant to be annoying" tag on the bugtracker.
SDDM has problems sure, but it certainly isn't beyond saving. KDE could have just adopted it as-is (and as initially implied) or pitched in with maintenance, but instead it's an excuse for yet another rewrite, to use systemd user-services for session management... Which will inevitably spread to KDE in general, as D.E. has been not-so-subtly hinting is "the best way forward" for a while now.
why fork SDDM to be systemd reliant and make that the default
Same reason every new app for KDE that runs a background service (e.g. KRDP) and every new control-panel applet that touches services (e.g. plasma-firewall) also depends on systemd, usually for no convincing reason.
Several influential developers want to move all of KDE's various daemons and services to systemd user-units, so they can get rid of KDED & co. They have for quite some time.
The old "sure we support BSD, we've always supported BSD... You just miss out on some new stuff" pot of totally-not-boiling-yet water is the best way to make that happen with a minimum of screaming, so we get "stay calm, it's just an optional feature. SDDM will still work (for now)".
With any luck Gentoo will patch things to use openrc user services, or Sonic DE will gain the traction and the manpower to be an X11-first and systemd-optional KDE fork.
Both efforts would stand to benefit from some cross-distro support and packaging, but as far as Devuan goes who knows. As far as I can see we're still at "read forum, figure it out yourself" for pipewire, with nary a sign of an official proposition (let alone a solution) for user services more generally.
Why, is there something more interesting happening here? Golinux gets to rant on about the follies of youth and the doom of humanity in random threads, this diversion is at least technical and GNU/Linux related.
deepforest asked questions, I answered. That's all.
Can you give practical example of that? Case where's Gentoo have superiority over others binary distros?
One example? Probably not, portage touches everything. ![]()
In general, you can enable or disable features or use software combinations that require setup at compile time. One can, for example, run a system without udev or dbus, or build the whole OS with clang instead of GCC, or use musl rather than glibc as the system C library, or build binaries that run only on $shiny-new-cpu using every possible optimisation.
Usually that kind of thing means a whole separate specialised distro, with Gentoo it's just user choice and some mucking about in config files.
Probably the most relevant (to devuan) example is systemd - there are many packages that require you to enable or disable systemd integration at compile time (or apply patches to remove it), so binary distros have to either choose one or the other for everyone (i.e. debian/devuan split), or maintain multiple versions of packages, complex dependency chains, or distribution "flavours" (which nobody can be bothered doing).
In Gentoo you just set a 'systemd' or 'openrc' system-wide USE flag (or better, select a profile that does that for you), and everything that can integrate with your chosen init will be built to do so, dependencies will be suggested to provide missing features, etc.
That's a big part of why Gentoo supports multiple init systems as "first-class citizens", and almost everything (including GNOME, for the most part) just works(tm).
Instead of "suggests", "recommends", zillions of split packages, and a bunch of removing optional junk after install, you set USE flags to define which features you want and the needed dependencies are pulled in to enable them.
Portage also makes patching software locally dead-easy. Instead of buggering about with quilt, debhelper, and doG knows what else to change and rebuild a package, you just drop your patch in /etc/portage/patches/[package name]/ and emerge applies it for you.
Why at main desktop pc you use Intel cpu but not Ryzen?
It offered better performance at the time, and ryzen had random motherboard/bios compatibility problems I didn't want to deal with.
Why Gentoo have no installer
It does, the installer is you.
More seriously, there are too many possible ways to build a gentoo system for an installer to be very useful, and it's not worth the development effort for something you probably only do once.
Gentoo handbook looks very complex
It's no worse than Archlinux, and plenty of people figure that out.
time out
Spent dealing with unexpected emails and IRC pings from both past and present forum members, expressing agreement with my comments and general disappointment with the way this forum is run... And working on scripts and ebuilds for Gentoo of course, because why on earth would I bother around here when:
The dev1galaxy.org (almost) No Code of Conduct
Quite clearly reads "Rules for thee, not for me" and "Abuse of authority, blatant derailing of threads with pseudo-philosophical mumbo-jumbo, and venomous personal attacks are acceptable from anyone with the Administrator tag."
In case you had forgotten, here's a quick recap of the impression you left with the last newly-registered competent user and potential future contributor:
This is probably the most self contradictory statement I've read in a while, I came to the forums because of an issue I had, and the only thing you've contributed is 300 posts of spite towards everyone, and coming from an admin.
Notice they haven't posted since. Bravo.
conspiracy theorist basket cases frequenting this site over the years - given free reign
Which I have also called out on several occasions. I have no interest in political affiliation though, nutcases and nonsense are much the same no matter the flavour.
The admin aren't the only perceived problem.
I'd argue the admins are the problem, when said free-reign is seemingly dispensed based on whether vitriol targets approved punching-bags or the drivel one is spewing aligns with similarly deranged tirades from site admins.
Point out issues with Devuan - you're the problem. Hurl abuse and slander at other FOSS projects and developers - pat on the back.
Espouse the right political views and sufficient anti-establishment impotent rage - do whatever you like, you're tribe.
it's likely one of the big factors in why Devuan project isn't taken seriously by many
Of course it is. I for one would love to see Devuan taken more seriously (especially by technically competent users and potential contributors), but that's never going to happen with the culture that is encouraged around here.
They are plenty of projects that are socially toxic.
Devuan as a whole is largely fine, it's just the administration of this board.
Separate repos for each user's contributions
I'm following the AUR architecture. It's over 20 years old, i doubt you'll do better.
Arch isn't the only game in town, Gentoo has had "overlays" since before Arch existed and those come in both varieties - most are per-contributor (and usually self-hosted), while project GURU serves as an official community repository, with oversight somewhere between "trusted Gentoo packaging" and "J. Random git bucket".
GURU structure and regulation sounds similar to what you are proposing (and the latter is strict enough to allay my earlier concern WRT quality), so it might be worth plagiarising reading.
[meme placeholder, since images are banned by the fun police]
Yes, yes he is.
And
You just gave me an opportunity to fire up my image blocker.
Is as petty as ever.
Remember...
Reminisce about your glory days a bit harder Go, maybe it will start to sound like an apology - which is what you really owe greenjeans for that earlier comment.
options to distract users from focusing on essentials. Seems a bit like "fiddling while Rome burns"
Huh, must be the same crystal ball after all... I was thinking the same about forum themes and "visual identity".
Since other people's proposals for attracting more packagers and maintainers are apparently a waste of effort, perhaps this is a good time to introduce yours?
Gentoo is source based and if i am right understand most part software needs compilation
Historically it was entirely source-based. Now there are binary packages available for common profiles, so if you don't customise your use flags (compile-time features etc.) you needn't compile anything.
Personally I think that kinda defeats the point... But then again the line is something like "here tools, do whatever you like", so I guess a binary Gentoo install is as reasonable as any other.
fast compilation needs fast CPU and lot of ram
"Fast" is a matter of interpretation and patience. It tends to be a few packages (particularly web browsers) that take the the bulk of the time, if you use binary packages for those Gentoo is quite manageable even on fairly modest hardware. You can also use a build-host or distcc to offload work, e.g. have a fast desktop or server build updates for a slower laptop.
Its all hdd?
8 mechanical drives in the main raidz6 pool, plus 10 SSDs of various sizes in a couple of raid10 arrays. 64TB is really an approximation, it's considerably more than that in raw disk, and slightly less in "usable" space once you account for redundancy, overhead, and filesystem slop allowances.
What brand of manufactur of hdd are you prefer?
Seagate ironwolf at the moment, but I've had WD drives in the past. That ZFS pool has been around a while now and I tend to replace drives gradually with whatever is the most reasonable price/capacity/reliability balance at the time, I consider researching specific models more relevant than brand-loyalty.
why you stop use it?
Lack of granular package management and dependency resolution. Packages are essentially just tarballs and as close to upstream as possible, it's up to the user to track dependencies or rebuild them if they want a different feature set (e.g. not all of KDE as one package). There are addons (e.g. slapt-get), but AFAIK the base distro is still that way to this day.
I am still "using" Slackware, in a manner of speaking... Slackware 7.0 on a "vintage" AMD K6-2 machine, much like I did back in '99
.
IT knowledge related with your job or IT is your hobby
It's tangentially related to my job, but "hobby", if you call it that, came first. Really I just like to understand the things I use - that's as true for cars and dishwashers as it is for computers. If I can't take it apart and screw around with it, it's not worth having.
This is PC desktops?
The first is not, the second is.
They are somewhat symbiotic though, they have a point-to-point bonded (10Gbitx2) network connection so most of the files I work with on my desktop actually reside on the server.
Why are you use so many ram?
1: For ZFS ARC, and why not. (ECC DDR3 was cheap at the time, and none of the components were purchased new).
2: I compile software on it, and why not. More RAM more better.
How are you use yours PCs, job, entertainment?
Those are both at home, so neither are "work" machines. The first is a storage(~64TB)/web/mail/camera/streaming/everything else server, the second is my main general-purpose desktop.
Why Gentoo?
Because Gentoo is awesome. If you want your OS to be your OS, there's no substitute. Think of it less as a distro, and more a collection of tools to build your own distro.
Gentoo is also the second distro I ever seriously used (after Slackware), so it was an obvious choice when looking for a rolling-release that didn't push systemd.
But why? Cuz Matrox gives the best 2d picture?
Cuz it's built into the BMC. That board doesn't even have a suitable PCIE slot for a GPU, and Xeons generally don't have integrated graphics.
Are you use it at CRT display?
I could (it's analogue VGA only), but I've never plugged a monitor into it. On the rare occasion I need to get at the physical console (or BIOS), it's via RS232 or network KVM over IPMI.
I am tried that, before its worked, now its outdated
Well the gist does link directly to an "updated" version, with "thanks this works" posts as recent as 3 weeks ago...
not all packages download at this stage
https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia- … 0xx-driver
https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia- … gacy-340xx
Looks present and correct to me.
i prefer ready for use solutions
If you don't want to try, suit yourself.
what harware are you use
..,,;;;::;,..
`':ddd;:,. ---------------
`'dPPd:,. OS: Devuan GNU/Linux 6 (excalibur) x86_64
`:b$$b`. Host: X9DRL-3F/iF 0123456789
'P$$$d` Kernel: Linux 6.12.63+deb13-amd64
.$$$$$` Uptime: 20 days, 23 hours, 31 mins
;$$$$$P
.:P$$$$$$` Packages: 1585 (dpkg)
.,:b$$$$$$$;' Shell: bash 5.2.37
.,:dP$$$$$$$$b:' Terminal: /dev/pts/0
.,:;db$$$$$$$$$$Pd'`
,db$$$$$$$$$$$$$$b:'` CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Xeon(R) E5-2665 0 (32) @ 3.10 GHz
:$$$$$$$$$$$$b:'` GPU: Matrox Electronics Systems Ltd. MGA G200eW WPCM450
`$$$$$bd:''` Memory: 29.90 GiB / 125.86 GiB (24%)
`'''`and
-/oyddmdhs+:.
-odNMMMMMMMMNNmhy+-` ---------------
-yNMMMMMMMMMMMNNNmmdhy+- OS: Gentoo Linux x86_64
`omMMMMMMMMMMMMNmdmmmmddhhy/` Kernel: Linux 6.12.63-gentoo-dist
omMMMMMMMMMMMNhhyyyohmdddhhhdo` Uptime: 1 day, 7 hours, 1 min
.ydMMMMMMMMMMdhs++so/smdddhhhhdm+`
oyhdmNMMMMMMMNdyooydmddddhhhhyhNd. Packages: 2145 (emerge)
:oyhhdNNMMMMMMMNNNmmdddhhhhhyymMh Shell: bash 5.3.9
.:+sydNMMMMMNNNmmmdddhhhhhhmMmy Display (CB272): 1920x1080 in 27", 75 Hz [External]
/mMMMMMMNNNmmmdddhhhhhmMNhs: Terminal: konsole 25.8.3
`oNMMMMMMMNNNmmmddddhhdmMNhs+`
`sNMMMMMMMMNNNmmmdddddmNMmhs/. CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900KF (20) @ 5.30 GHz
/NMMMMMMMMNNNNmmmdddmNMNdso:` GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT [Discrete]
+MMMMMMMNNNNNmmmmdmNMNdso/- Memory: 17.96 GiB / 62.68 GiB (29%)
yMMNNNNNNNmmmmmNNMmhs+/-`
/hMMNNNNNNNNMNdhs++/-`
`/ohdmmddhys+++/:.`
`-//////:--.I'm pretty sure there's also a laptop around here somewhere, but we don't talk about that.
You never miss an opportunity do you.
Since you never miss an opportuity to hold sermons on the doom of the human race any time anyone suggests something new or shit on people for not doing work you don't do either, I'm only responding in kind.
Visually..
forum...
logo...
layout...
visual identity and messaging
You mean theming. Whoop. De. Do. ![]()
Past theming I might add. Full of "was". Full of "would have been" and "has been".
By all means, encourage others to make themes if that's your jam, and you actually have a concept of what work is involved. Don't passive-aggressively berate them to do things you can't or won't do yourself, particularly when you crow about how little you know on the subject.
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=57536#p57536 sums it up quite nicely, so I'll not rehash the obvious regarding the difference between tinkering with CSS and themes, and testing and packaging software or writing code... Or the general quality of your "administration" of this board for that matter.
exponentialmatrix came in here with a suggestion, having already done much of the work to make it happen. Rather than engaging in rational discussion on the topic, you almost immediately started in on some pessimistic "things were better in my day" bullshit, then followed up with passive-agressive demands for people to "contribute" to tasks largely unrelated to the topic at hand and which you won't lift a finger on yourself.
Have you ever contributed any code directly to Devuan? Please remind me.
...
I have never written code and I couldn't write a bash script if my life depended on it!
(ref)
Rich innit, having a go at the author of a derivative distro and several utilities for their perceived lack of code contributions, while loudly proclaiming "I can't code". ![]()
As usual go, all you are "contributing" here is a bunch of crotchety barely-coherent bitching on the "state of humanity", irrelevant "in my day" rambling, and tired reruns of the same "somebody do the things I can't/won't" comments you seem to love dropping every time anyone dares make an even slightly productive suggestion.
On the OP: I don't disagree with the concept, but I'm not convinced making it "official" is a good idea.
As is painfully apparent in other threads here, the people wanting shiny-new software are often the same who never read the instructions... A user-curated build script repository will inevitably contain horribly broken junk, and "official" endorsement of that kind of thing will reflect negatively on Devuan as a whole, as well as likely clogging both the bugtracker and the forum with inactionable problem reports.
Put all the disclaimers you like on the thing, if it's on a devuan domain people will assume it's subject to devuan quality control and devuan support.
very hard way
"Hard" is relative to ones experience. If you never try, you won't gain any of that and it will remain "hard" indefinitely.
broken os
No X11/GUI is the worst you could achieve, and that's hardly "broken OS". The CLI will remain usable with only the generic VGA drivers in the kernel.
can you give me 100% working instructions
I don't do spoon-feeding, and I don't have any nvidia hardware to test with so any "100%" would be meaningless. Generic backporting instructions are here, and the source package you will want to build from is here.
You might need newer versions of some tooling (e.g. debhelper), but there looks to be little else in the way of dependencies.
Also, somebody has already done the "instructions" thing, and it took all of 10 seconds to find on the 'net. There are probably others.
You could have found those yourself, so I assume what you really want when you say "100%" is some kind warranty... Which you will not get anywhere, so you may as well stop asking.
smoking a pipe
Yeah, that'll be Slackware. Prior to the more modern "S" logo it was either Bob Dobbs or Tux smoking a pipe, both are still considered "mascots".
Slackware is still alive and well, making it the oldest surviving major distro. It also hasn't changed very much since I first installed it some 25+ years ago, which is either its biggest strength or its biggest weakness, depending on who you ask.
TBH I'm kinda surprised a Devuan user isn't at least passingly familiar with Slackware, it's the OG old-school init holdout (BSD init) and one of the only two "big" distros (the other being the somewhat younger Gentoo) that didn't go all-in on systemd.
i use Ceres because Debian several years ago drop support nvidia-340
So why not backport the package, rather than switching release?
I swear I will never understand why people switch releases, or even change distros entirely, all to avoid compiling something.
why at all Devuan devs implement third-party tool for admin time
Devuan didn't write, implement, or encourage the use of that "tool". Here is the wiki page on setting the time in Debian (which also applies to Devuan, sans the systemd section). Notice there is no mention at all of any GUI.
why at all we need GUI and DE!
You are the one insisting on using gnome-system-tool or whatever it is, nobody else.
Also, we don't. There are a multitude of Debian and Devuan systems that run just fine with no GUI at all.
misunderstanding for casual users
s/casual users/people who refuse to read the documentation/g
FTFY.
how i can know that i need install ntp daemon
By reading the documentation, instead of "working at Windows" ![]()
What else would you run as a beginner ... stable is boring!
OP has a long history of running unstable (or better yet, mixing) releases, then complaining that "Devuan" is broken and things don't work "out of the box" when the inevitable bugs arise. Apparently "unstable is for testers and bug hunters" is also in documentation they refuse to read.
We used to have a whole thread for people to contribute to the community by serving as a warning to others over on FDN, before the big DEI takeover...