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#1 Re: Off-topic » What other distro are you using (besides devuan)? » 2019-07-19 09:03:11

I was running artix as daily driver for a little while with openrc and lxqt but decided to move over to Devuan full time, Beowulf seems pretty stable and Miyolinux i3 spin is good, i have 6 different distros multibooting though, im always hopping around learning new things. Seems some things are done with much saner defaults with Devuan/Debian than Archlinux.

#2 Re: Off-topic » Please suggest a completely open source ARM board with Cortex A53/A7 » 2019-07-17 14:58:41

ToxicExMachina wrote:

I would recommend to search for NXP i.MX based boards. However, in general ARM is just a pain. x86 based boards are much more "open source" than any ARM based board.

In regards to x86 vs ARM you are right, but the issue  is there is not enough ARM  developer pc's as Linus Torvald mentioned not long ago. x86 just corners the market now until some clever so and so's put together powerful ARM computers not raspberry pi hobby boards.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-linu … rocessors/

#3 Re: Off-topic » Boom Times or financial apocalypse » 2019-07-16 12:49:53

alupoj wrote:

I would not blindly trust neither Russia Today nor any western mass media.

All of them on the very top are controlled by ZOG and used to manipulate people for a profit of ZOG. They artificially pump up a difference of potentials (like a voltage) in people minds to make more people's debts as a goal to extract more labor from people. ZOG issue (electronically "print") as much money by themselves as they need, but they do not have unlimited labor force, that is why they need a people debt and also for a control.

In Russia this information is actively banned and deleted almost instantly on most forums.
Therefore I conclude they are even afraid of people know about their lie. When I wrote about this on different russian forums they artificially and remotely (I guess by some type of a radio channel may be from satellite, GSM or WIFI) produced a pain in bone marrow of my mother and she called me to get some analgesic for her, I have all (several) calls recordings corresponding by their time to posting on russian forums threads saved to web archive (now deleted from forums).

Also russian people often experience from suffering their human rights (augmented by attackers lie, criminal pressure even from government institutions may be occupied by ZOG agents too) , Russia is not a good place to get truthful official information from, their news are finally targeted to get gains and profits only for their government and oligarchs without respect to the rest of  general people. All mass media produce a mix of true and false hardly to distinguish from each other just for manipulation of audience minds, all of them finally lie for ZOG profit.

For the most part your reply is beyond the scope of this thread. All main stream media outlets are bias towards whatever political agenda they serve, this is nothing new. Reading in between the lines is for most.

#4 Re: Installation » Customizing Heads as a secure persistent guest for boards and VMs. » 2019-07-16 12:24:11

alupoj wrote:
Panopticon wrote:

https://riscv.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

Hopefully the future of open source computing.

Are there any affordable RISC-V boards running Linux and/or BSD on the public market?

Not micro controller boards with some specific non universal OS.

Not that i am aware of, but i haven't looked or researched it.

#5 Re: Off-topic » Apt aliases » 2019-07-16 12:21:40

ILUXA wrote:
Panopticon wrote:

just posting some interesting information.

I don't think that part from article dated 2 February 2013, which was written by schizophrenic on his blog, may be called "interesting information". Only he and his psychotherapist know why he think that FreeBSD package manager is somehow related to Debian apt package manager...

Panopticon wrote:

I have experience with more than one package manager - apt, apk, pacman,xbps, pkgsrc, pkgng,rpm, etc.

Good for you. Me too, BTW. But IMO it is much more handy to use the same commands everywhere, because you don't need to always remember what OS you're using, especially if you're using two machines at the same time, like me.

You are quite right, no evidence to back the "interesting" claim up for sure. Would be interesting to see the particular mailing lists from 2011 he speaks of. Anyhow old news.

Welcome to devuan wink

#6 Re: Off-topic » Systemd in regards to Linux distributions' size & performance? » 2019-07-16 00:28:39

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Panopticon wrote:

"Moore’s law, prediction made by American engineer Gordon Moore in 1965 that the number of transistors per silicon chip doubles every year.".

Moore's Law no longer applies, it was broken several years ago.

@OP: I've just installed Debian buster & Devuan beowulf virtually, both with the XFCE desktop and both seem to occupy roughly the same space on the drive. Devuan does use less memory but Debian's disk access is faster (no idea why) and Devuan can't shutdown or restart the system without root privileges (I presume the login session isn't fully functional yet).

https://i.postimg.cc/zyThf265/Screenshot-from-2019-07-15-18-33-51.png

It is true that the systemd binary is bigger than sysvinit but it's only a matter of a few megabytes and Debian split out some of the functions into other packages which aren't part of the default install.

Moores Law is dead, long live Moores law!

Its interesting to note whats next in the evolution of the transistor is though, it cant get much smaller anymore but what innovation springs forth from Moores law being broken or dieing is quite interesting.

Ill quote the whole article in below link as that web page locks up for me (must be advertising popup) and i have to use reader view. It is an interesting article worth a read though.

https://interestingengineering.com/no-m … moores-law

There have been advances in alternative models for transistors that have shown promise.
Both multigate and Tri-gate transistor models offer ways to extend Moore’s law for a time and are already being used in many electronic devices.
But all these can do is extend the effective life of Moore’s Law.

interestingengineering.com
No More Transistors: The End of Moore’s Law
John Loeffler
6-8 minutes

In 1965, Gordon Moore proposed that the number of transistors on a silicon chip would double every year. Moore’s Law, as it is now known, proved prophetic about the exponential growth of computing power that made much of the modern world possible.

Starting around 2010, however, Moore’s Law began to break down and many today are asking if our age of unprecedented growth is coming to an end. Gordon Moore is the co-founder of the Intel Corporation and one of the men largely responsible for the computer age.

His work with the silicon transistor began in 1956, when he went to work for the transistor’s inventor William Shockley and he has been inseperable from the transistor ever since. A transistor produces, amplifies, and directs an electrical signal using three leads, a source, a gate, and a drain.

When voltage is applied to the gate lead, an incoming current at the source lead will be allowed to pass through to the drain lead. Take the voltage away from the gate lead and the current cannot pass through. What this does is produce a way to compute logical values, 1 and 0 in computer terms, based on the whether there is voltage applied to the gate and the source leads. Connect the drain lead of a transistor to the source lead or the gate lead of another transistor and suddenly you can start producing incredibly complex logic systems.

Comparable to the neuron of the human brain, this network of transistors is responsible for the functioning of nearly all modern devices, from a digital alarm clock to a supercomputer. And the more transistors you can fit on a chip, the more computationally powerful this network becomes.
So when Moore was asked to submit a paper to the journal Electronics predicting the future of technology, he reviewed the data on Fairchild’s production of silicon chips.

He found that the number of transistors on a silicon chip doubled every year and proposed in his paper in Electronics that this rate of growth would continue, later revising this to a more conservative doubling every 2 years in 1975. While not a law in the mathematical sense, Moore’s Law bore out: about every 18 months, a transistor would be half the size of the current transistor. This meant more transistors could be packed into a chip, which drove the exponential growth of computing power for the next 40 years.

Why is Moore’s Law Breaking Down?

There are three major factors contributing to the slowing rate of growth in processor power, and they’re all related.
First, you have electrical leakage. For decades, as transistors got smaller, they became more energy efficient.
Now, however, they have gotten so small, as small as 10 nanometers, that the channel that carries the electrical current through the transistor cannot always contain it. This generates heat which can wear out the transistors more quickly, making them even more susceptible to leakage.

Heat isn’t just limited to one transistor though.

Billions of transistors leaking can seriously threaten the integrity of the whole chip, so the processor must reduce the amount of voltage it takes in or throttle the number of transistors in use to prevent overheating, limiting the processing power of the chip.

Finally, there is the third strike against Moore’s law: economics.

When the number of transistors doubles, so does the amount of heat they can generate. The cost of cooling large server rooms is getting more and more untenable for many businesses who are the biggest purchasers of the most advanced processing chips. As businesses try to extend the life and performance of their current equipment to save money, chipmakers responsible for fulfilling Moore’s Law bring in less revenue to devote to R&D—which itself is becoming more expensive. Without that extra revenue, it becomes much harder to overcome all of the physical impediments to shrinking the transistors even further. So, it might not be the physical challenges that bring an end to Moore’s Law, but simply the lack of demand for smaller transistors. Chipmakers and manufacturers have known about this challenge to Moore’s Law for at least a decade.

As such, they have been finding ways to continue the growth in computing power without needing to solely rely on smaller transistors every two years. There have been advances in alternative models for transistors that have shown promise. Both multigate and Tri-gate transistor models offer ways to extend Moore’s law for a time and are already being used in many electronic devices. But all these can do is extend the effective life of Moore’s Law.

One of the earliest and most effective approaches to this problem was the adoption of multiprocessor and multicore architectures. If you want more power from a chip that has come to the limits of its capacity, use two or more chips instead of one and you can continue increasing your processing power, though at greater power consumption cost. Multicore systems meanwhile use a processor design that features several execution cores in a single processor.

Each core is less powerful than the previous generation’s single core design, but several smaller chips can be used more concurrently and efficiently and give an effective increase in computing power.

Moore’s Law is Dead. Long Live Moore’s Law!

The end of Moore’s Law as we know it was always inevitable. There is a physical limit to what can fit on a silicon chip once you start working with nanometers. Go any smaller and you start dealing with subatomic particles which immediately puts you in the realm of quantum computing, which is where we’re already headed. One day though, after the transistor get stuck at three atoms and an electron, someone will notice that the computation power of newer forms of transistors are rapidly advancing. Molecular, DNA, or Spintronic transistors will appear to pick up where silicon left off and Moore’s Law will be brought out of retirement until quantum computing makes discussions about limits irrelevant.

Ultimately, this has had less to do with transistors than it has to do with us as a society. Our hope and expectations for progress won’t end with the final generation of silicon transistors because we won’t let it. We will find a way to bring Moore’s Law back for whatever else comes after simply because we want it to be true.

#8 Re: Off-topic » Systemd in regards to Linux distributions' size & performance? » 2019-07-15 13:02:33

"Moore’s law, prediction made by American engineer Gordon Moore in 1965 that the number of transistors per silicon chip doubles every year.".

https://www.britannica.com/technology/Moores-law

As computer components get ever more complex in nature, software has to keep up with it, im no expert but i believe there is probably a right way and a wrong way, currently there is possibly too many ways if you ask systemd advocates?

#9 Re: Off-topic » Apt aliases » 2019-07-15 12:49:38

ILUXA wrote:

Finally by comparing the source code of FreeBSD’s pkgng to Debian’s apt-get, people would find that pkgng is literally pieces of code ripped from apt-get with little to no modification. Indeed discussions on the mailing list in late 2011 show that FreeBSD “developers” including Baptiste Daroussin took apt-get and removed the GPL license together with code they could not understand and renamed the result pkgng. They did this as they were incapable of writing a package manager from scratch. This means pkgng has legal implications for FreeBSD as it is illegal to remove the GPL from a piece of software without the author’s permission. It also shows how blatant the BSD projects can be when fighting against the freedom achieved by Richard Stallman, the FSF, Linus Torvalds and GNU/Linux.

This is complete delirium, no comments.

apt-mark manual

FreeBSD equivalent is pkg set -A 0, or pkg set -A 1 to mark package as automatically installed.
But after I've configured pkg aliases I'm using pkg M package or pkg A package.
But I don't understand, why you're trying to write something about FreeBSD to me,
what I've posted, is just a simple script to use it with Debian based distros, there is really
no real connection between it and FreeBSD, I use some of same letters on my FBSD installation but that's all.
You're barking up the wrong tree.

I think what you are doing is confusing.

I have experience with more than one package manager - apt, apk, pacman,xbps, pkgsrc, pkgng,rpm, etc. Each one is unique in its own use, if you are using debian/devuan then apt should be memorized and so forth. Just my opinion, not barking up the any tree by the way, just posting some interesting information.

#10 Re: Off-topic » Apt aliases » 2019-07-14 15:54:39

Another interesting tidbit.

https://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013 … s-apt-get/

Finally by comparing the source code of FreeBSD’s pkgng to Debian’s apt-get, people would find that pkgng is literally pieces of code ripped from apt-get with little to no modification. Indeed discussions on the mailing list in late 2011 show that FreeBSD “developers” including Baptiste Daroussin took apt-get and removed the GPL license together with code they could not understand and renamed the result pkgng. They did this as they were incapable of writing a package manager from scratch. This means pkgng has legal implications for FreeBSD as it is illegal to remove the GPL from a piece of software without the author’s permission. It also shows how blatant the BSD projects can be when fighting against the freedom achieved by Richard Stallman, the FSF, Linus Torvalds and GNU/Linux.

This is probably partly due to how much freebsd is very much dependent on the linux environment to stay relevant, my experience using freebsd was met with loading up boot commands related to linux to get things working. BSD folks like to bag gnu/linux but at the same time borrow so much from it.

#11 Re: Off-topic » Apt aliases » 2019-07-14 15:26:15

Do you think maybe this is subject to error in the future? When you have been trained to think of how Freebsd pkg works you may give a command you unintentionally did not want to give. I suppose then it would be down to memory retention. How closely linked is Freebsd pkg to debians apt?

Case in point: pkg add -M

-M, --accept-missing
		Force the installation of the package with missing dependen-
		cies.

https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?que … +and+Ports

M) apt-mark manual ${@:2} ;;

https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/apt … .8.en.html

manual
manual is used to mark a package as being manually installed, which will prevent the package from being automatically removed if no other packages depend on it.

#12 Re: Installation » Customizing Heads as a secure persistent guest for boards and VMs. » 2019-07-14 15:12:27

alupoj wrote:

It is a Heads distro installation.

Fixed by manually (dpkg -i *deb) upgrading  to versions from a newly bootstrapped directory.

Do you mean you installed the Heads Live distro on persistent media? , how did you manage to do this?

#13 Re: Other Issues » Battery low - Beowulf desktop PC ? » 2019-07-14 14:33:40

Yeah i think tint2 has a small script for getting battery info, so you should post up that tint2rc as headstick mentions.

This would have to be the problem, just take out this section of the tint2rc.

# Battery
battery_tooltip = 1
battery_low_status = 10
battery_low_cmd = xmessage 'tint2: Battery low!'
battery_full_cmd = 
battery_font_color = #ffffff 100
bat1_format = 
bat2_format = 
battery_padding = 1 0
battery_background_id = 0
battery_hide = 101
battery_lclick_command = 
battery_rclick_command = 
battery_mclick_command = 
battery_uwheel_command = 
battery_dwheel_command = 
ac_connected_cmd = 
ac_disconnected_cmd = 

https://gitlab.com/o9000/tint2/blob/mas … es/tint2rc

Tint2 rocks, most unix and linux distributions have it in their package managers.

#14 Re: Other Issues » system hangs after exiting second tty » 2019-07-13 14:28:53

^ Good insight, thanks ralph. Might be a good idea to look in /etc/apt/sources.list as well. From experience reading on how some regularly break Debian i wouldn't be surprised if some abnormal "stable" conditions are present.

#15 Re: Other Issues » system hangs after exiting second tty » 2019-07-13 12:33:22

@ralph, would it be worth looking to see what is inside each of .bashrc  .profile .bash_logout

#16 Re: Off-topic » Apt aliases » 2019-07-13 12:04:45

@ yeti, only if you have completion setup nicely. Then there is history search via .inputrc up down arrow search in vi mode.

#17 Re: Other Issues » system hangs after exiting second tty » 2019-07-12 15:23:57

Did you need to do hard resets when the system hangs (press power button to shutdown).

Or can you freely ctrl-alt to another tty like 5 or 6 ?

#18 Re: Off-topic » Apt aliases » 2019-07-12 14:51:56

So what is a user case scenario for this?

alias pkg -d ="apt-get depends"

One could just make bash/sh aliases in a similar fashion and make it less of a typing burden with something like "apd" for apt-get depends and so on.

I think you are just shitting all over the apt package manager for shits and giggles really.

#19 Re: Other Issues » system hangs after exiting second tty » 2019-07-11 16:35:35

Ok so nothing stands out there.

From some investigation i found this.
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93164

Comment 9.

Created attachment 121092 [details]
xorg.log with crash backtrace -- intel hardware

Hi, coming to this bug from https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=805605

In reproducing this bug, there seems to be a time-based component to getting X into a 'frozen' state. If there is a delay between step 4's chvt's, then all is fine after the second switch:

...
4. chvt 1; sleep 1; chvt 2

In my case, Laurent's procedure above is modified to (less gdm):

1. startx on tty1
2. switch to tty2
3. login
4. chvt 1; chvt2

Furthermore, when following the above to get into a 'frozen' X state (less `sleep 1`), it is not enough to produce an Xorg.log crash backtrace in my case. Instead, the crash does not happen until I 'switch' to the vt on which the frozen X is living. vt1 in the above example. Only then is a backtrace logged to the Xorg.log which should be attached. *note: this is using intel hardware.

try logging in on tty2 and 3 only and see if you get the same outcome ofa locked up console when trying to exit. Make sure tty1 and or 7 is logged out.

#20 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [Solved] Disk access monitor for ASCII » 2019-07-11 15:38:33

So is conky really, you are only going to get information on the event as it happens and passes, atleast with logging IOTOP when you dont know how to parse it through conky for the event you are investigating, you may have some real data to go on that may help figure out the issue in a log you can share here.

#21 Re: News & Announcements » Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable » 2019-07-11 15:33:52

^ similar thoughts go to programmers who think maintaining 1 million lines of code is efficient i guess wink

#22 Re: Other Issues » system hangs after exiting second tty » 2019-07-11 15:28:05

Ok so what about log messages?

dmesg --level=err,warn

#23 Re: Other Issues » Battery low - Beowulf desktop PC ? » 2019-07-11 14:21:28

Do you have a power manager installed? Maybe its just a standard message when the manager cant find a battery.  I would be annoyed if it keeps happening, but if it is a one off message i wouldnt worry about it.

#24 Re: Other Issues » nm-applet, network-manager tray icon not working [Openbox, tint2] » 2019-07-11 14:19:17

I think wicd-gtk has that python-xdg dependency. As far as im aware network manager has no python deps.

#25 Re: Other Issues » system hangs after exiting second tty » 2019-07-11 14:00:56

Try to give some more info,  maybe what is in Xorg.log?  /var/log/Xorg.log

try

pkill -U <your username>

in second terminal. Does it still hang ?

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