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2021-09-17
11:15:45 <ziproot> Hi, I have trouble connecting to wifi on devuan. It works fine on mx.
11:17:32 <ziproot> Log: https://upload.disroot.org/r/xKjJNoKM#lv65CPCGYUfWcTZlB780qEN4KsOYH5FJqw/fBKdf/BY=
11:33:49 <ziproot> ok I will check again at a different time
16:54:46 <jason1234> flemu would be fine for runnning on devuan, with ppsspp, it could be added to the official repos of chimaera ... https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/flemu
17:36:43 <gnuhack> Hi! How can I suspend my laptop without systemd? In Debian I did it with "systemctl suspend"
18:28:35 <skinnyboy_> Hello
18:29:45 <skinnyboy_> I want to know whats the difference between this two kernels: https://share.riseup.net/#FruXvWgylmBYgJFe5ElqXQ
18:31:12 <hagbard> The first one is a specific kernel version, the second is a meta-package that depends on whatever the current version is.
18:32:01 <hagbard> so if unsure, choose the latter
18:35:31 <skinnyboy_> Thanks
18:47:08 <skinnyboy_> I got it, dual boot UEFI/GPT mode, but the installer did it automatically, crazy, I didn't even have to generate the initial ram with the crypt hooks or anything, nor touch grub configurations.
18:48:21 <skinnyboy_> https://share.riseup.net/#OfGvCfYVNO7Po7cNLFbOWg
18:49:22 <skinnyboy_> Last question, if I have 16GB of RAM is it necessary to create a swap partition?
18:59:00 <gnarface> gnuhack: there's probably other ways too, but i think you can just call the pm-suspend script from the pm-utils package (don't forget though you'll need permission)
19:00:40 <gnarface> skinnyboy_: maybe not in general practice but you should have some swap just in case even if it's just swap on a zram block device
19:02:26 <gnarface> skinnyboy_: the system doesn't function correctly in an out-of-memory situation without swap, so you'd be vulnerable to the possibility of unprivileged user processes crashing privileged ones with a very simple DOS attack or memory leak
19:02:27 <skinnyboy_> Thanks, another question im seeing now that im in the system that in the root fs i got kernels images and iniramfs images, idk if this is good...
19:03:10 <gnarface> they are just symlinks to the ones in /boot it is normal
19:03:36 <gnarface> "ls -l" and you can see where they're pointing
19:03:37 <skinnyboy_> thanks
19:04:05 <skinnyboy_> ok I understand a lil bit better UEFI boot
19:06:35 <skinnyboy_> So pc boots and see that in my first partition with FAT32 i got entries with grub efi bootloader and more images like windows and devuan, so boots up on grub and in the grub config i got a chainload, windows, devuan and so on..?
19:07:22 <gnarface> you might understand the uefi part better than me
19:07:30 <gnarface> sounds right though basically
19:07:32 <gnarface> i think
19:07:59 <skinnyboy_> Ill configure on my own laptop and ill come right back with an irc client and ill make and acc
19:08:16 <gnarface> the part about the symlinks to the kernel images in /boot isn't unique to uefi
19:08:45 <skinnyboy_> and why in the root fs and no other partitions?
19:09:38 <gnarface> i think that's just a lower level unix thing; it's gotta pick one partition first so root is the logical default
19:09:58 <gnarface> but with these debian initrd.img kernel setups it actually boots a rootfs in the initrd.img first
19:10:21 <gnarface> that has all the drivers and stuff to be able to load everything else
19:10:31 <gnarface> the idea being i think based on hardware limitations from a long time ago
19:13:43 <gnarface> to be honest i don't even know if anything other than kernel package build automation actually uses those symlinks anymore
19:14:01 <skinnyboy_> uff
19:14:12 <skinnyboy_> How can i learn more about unix* like internals
19:14:40 <gnarface> eh, i'm sure there's good books but i've picked a lot up by just comparing behavior of different distros
19:14:42 <skinnyboy_> Cause is hard for me to learn about grub, initrams, kernels, etc.
19:14:55 <gnarface> seeing what's the same, and seeing what's different... and seeing what changes to become more the same or more different over time
19:14:57 <skinnyboy_> If anyone can recommended me a book i aprecciate it
19:15:14 <gnarface> redhat even has that /vmlinuz symlink i think
19:15:20 <gnarface> used to anyway iirc
19:15:23 <skinnyboy_> gnarface thats a good idea, Im the same, breaking things and try other things i learned a lot
19:15:47 <gnarface> there is acutally documentation that comes with the distros, this one being no exception
19:16:03 <gnarface> the debian new maintainer's guide will teach you a lot
19:16:08 <skinnyboy_> gnarface And now how can i learn about sysvinit i download a cheatsheet, its all that i should now about it?
19:16:18 <gnarface> i think someone has a devuan version in the works but i'm not sure where the link is
19:16:35 <gnarface> sysvinit, look up the LSB headers
19:16:50 <gnarface> all you need to know is the LSB headers and the /etc/rc?.d/ sylinks
19:16:53 <gnarface> symlinks*
19:16:58 <gnarface> the rest is just shell script
19:17:48 <gnarface> you were supposed to be able to start in /etc/init.d/README but i think it was recently discovered those are stale links
19:18:22 <gnarface> https://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
19:18:39 <gnarface> i'm sure there's devuan versions of this somewhere too
19:18:53 <gnarface> but in general that part isn't different from how it was in debian wheezy
19:22:28 <skinnyboy_> Thanks bruh!!
19:23:23 <fsmithred> https://refracta.org/docs/debian-handbook-wheezy.pdf
19:23:45 <fsmithred> ^^^ Debian Admin Guide for Wheezy (might have more info about sysvinit)
19:25:37 <skinnyboy_> Man i love u!
23:09:04 <EmanuelLoos[m]> Hello, how far is Devuan 4 from stable?
23:09:37 <xrogaan> there's a call for help posted on the mailing list
23:10:31 <xrogaan> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20210917.033049.73d0a505.en.html
23:15:41 <EmanuelLoos[m]> So, it is mostly about the documentation or are there also critical bugs that need to be fixed before chimaera can be released as the new stable version?
23:22:11 <EmanuelLoos[m]> Are you planing to offer official live images for other desktop environments too?
23:24:16 <ShorTie> what package provides -ldl ??
23:24:50 <gnarface> that's part of glibc
23:25:02 <gnarface> apt-cache search ^libc6
23:25:34 <gnarface> or: dpkg -S libdl.so
23:29:35 <ShorTie> libc6 and libc6-dev is already the newest version, but still can't find dlopen, dlerror and dlsym
23:30:07 <ShorTie> undefined reference to `dlopen' ...
23:31:08 <gnarface> what are you trying to build?
23:33:53 <ShorTie> smoothd, sure you never heard of it
23:35:53 <ShorTie> thefull error is really, /usr/bin/ld: ./libsmoothd.so: undefined reference to `dlopen', maybe i need -ldl for it too...
23:46:24 <fsmithred> EmanuelLoos[m], the only destkop-live is with xfce
23:52:13 <xrogaan> I have no clue about the doc. Looks good at first glance, but I rarely read any and I don't often install systems.
23:52:45 <xrogaan> well, I found a problem
23:53:02 <xrogaan> the doc recommend wicd, it's gone from chimarea
23:53:13 <xrogaan> something something python2
23:53:24 <fsmithred> you looking at release notes or some install docs?
23:53:38 <xrogaan> golinux asked the community to review https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/network-configuration.html
23:53:47 <fsmithred> yeah, with a little luck, the person who is looking at it will get it working with python 3
23:53:51 <xrogaan> well, the whole of dev1fanboy
23:53:58 <fsmithred> yeah, ok. Thanks.
23:54:47 <fsmithred> upgrade and migration docs are not fun to do. There are too many variables.
23:54:54 <xrogaan> you'd need to understand how launchpad.net works in order to get something from upstream.
---------- 2021-09-18 ----------
00:03:08 <EmanuelLoos[m]> <fsmithred> "Emanuel Loos, the only destkop-..." <- I know, is there a reason there are not more live images?
00:03:36 <fsmithred> yeah, more bodies are needed to do work.
00:04:47 <fsmithred> it's actually pretty easy to make live-isos with alternate desktops using live-sdk. Getting all the details right for each desktop, including the theme, is a lot more work.
00:05:38 <fsmithred> desktop-base only works fully with xfce. With some of the others, it works partially.
00:06:27 <EmanuelLoos[m]> fsmithred: What are the known bugs?
00:06:43 <fsmithred> which known bugs?
00:07:09 <fsmithred> bugs in chimaera?
00:07:40 <fsmithred> chimaera is ready. The installer isos and live isos are not quite ready.
00:07:42 <EmanuelLoos[m]> fsmithred: What works only partially with other desktop environments?
00:07:53 <fsmithred> window theme
00:08:16 <fsmithred> code would need to be added to desktop-base for each different desktop.
00:09:29 <EmanuelLoos[m]> fsmithred: Can't the theme be copied over?
00:10:06 <EmanuelLoos[m]> Or do you mean a Devuan specific theme?
00:10:19 <fsmithred> yeah, the devuan desktop theme
00:10:43 <fsmithred> bg image, window theme, a few other details of the desktop.
00:10:55 <fsmithred> login manager theme and grub theme are in that package, too
00:12:04 <golinux> EmanuelLoos[m]: Chimaera theme screenies: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3896
00:12:07 <fsmithred> the config files for the desktop that contain the theme settings need to be included in the package
00:12:27 <fsmithred> and then they get symlinked into the alternatives system to replace the default config files.
00:13:10 <fsmithred> for xfce, that's three or four .xml files. I don't know what the other desktops use.
00:14:28 <xrogaan> Ah, I used "reply" instead of "reply to list". We'll see if the mail will be sorted properly.
00:14:54 <fsmithred> if you're using t-bird, it'll just go to the author.
00:17:59 <EmanuelLoos[m]> <fsmithred> "yeah, the devuan desktop theme" <- For GTK I read that some GTK developers would be happier if their software isn't theamed by every distribution because it often breaks their software and they are getting many bug reports for many different themes they never planed to support. The standard GTK theme is also named "Adwita" which translates to "The Only One".
00:18:21 <xrogaan> No, no, I use mutt and there is a reply to list shortcut that puts the list address in the `to:` field. I believe that's all it does, but I'm not quite certain. So since I used the reply shortcut and manually changed the `To:` field, headers may not be propers.
00:18:41 <xrogaan> Awaita
00:18:46 <xrogaan> Adwaita
00:19:49 <xrogaan> And yes, Gnome people are opinionated about what a desktop should look like and feel like. I personally don't care much for that.
00:21:40 <EmanuelLoos[m]> xrogaan: Here is their open letter: https://stopthemingmy.app/
00:22:00 <fsmithred> gnome people are very concerned about brand identity
00:22:13 <fsmithred> they want all linux desktops to look the same
00:22:39 <xrogaan> EmanuelLoos[m]: As I said, I really don't care :)
00:22:46 <fsmithred> and I read a conversation between someone and a gnome dev, and the gnome dev did not know what xfce was.
00:23:38 <xrogaan> fsmithred: smells like microsoft-style tunnel vision. Very bad for whatever they're working on.
00:25:46 <fsmithred> sounds like they are arguing in favor of client-side-decorations and against a uniform window management for apps on the desktop.
00:27:02 <fsmithred> a lot of app developers would be happy if the gtk devs didn't keep changing things and breaking their apps.
00:27:30 <fsmithred> sorry, I'm ranting OT. done.
00:29:34 <EmanuelLoos[m]> <xrogaan> "Emanuel Loos: As I said, I..." <- I am just mentioning it. Do with the information as you please. I am not a GNOME dev and I didn't say you have to care. However, if theming is the issue blocking live images with other desktop environments I'd suggest just using Adwaita for those other images, what do you think about it?
00:32:24 <fsmithred> I'm pretty sure that idea would not fly.
00:32:56 <EmanuelLoos[m]> fsmithred: Why?
00:33:00 <fsmithred> theming is not the only issue
00:33:21 <fsmithred> building and testing the isos takes a lot of time
00:34:29 <EmanuelLoos[m]> fsmithred: What specifically?
00:35:01 <fsmithred> some time in the next few weeks, I will push the final changes to live-sdk for the chimaera build, and you can play with it.
00:36:47 <ShorTie> how do i find out LD_LIBRARY_PATH ??
00:40:29 <golinux> xrogaan: Will keep an eye out for it.
00:41:21 <golinux> EmanuelLoos[m]: Adwaita is fugly.
00:42:01 <xrogaan> golinux: generally, archlinux's wiki is pretty well maintained and helpful: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration#Network_managers
00:42:10 <golinux> The devs on the Xfce forum have managed to squash all the problems we've found using Clearlook Phenix.
00:42:58 <golinux> xrogaan: rrq has written a networking document that will be included in the Chimaera documentation
00:45:43 <golinux> EmanuelLoos[m]: If you want additional live desktops provided, I suggest you roll up your sleeves and dive in.
00:48:14 <mason> ShorTie: If you mean the defaults, look at /etc/ld.so*
00:48:56 <mason> ShorTie: Hint, "strings /etc/ld.so.cache | less" might be useful.
00:49:23 <EmanuelLoos[m]> golinux: Maybe I'll try that after a the final changes to live-sdk for chimaera but I can't make any promises.
00:50:53 <EmanuelLoos[m]> While we are at live images: What is the reason Devuan uses a different installer than debian?
00:51:17 <mason> EmanuelLoos[m]: Debian's installer doesn't let you select an init system, for one.
00:51:56 <golinux> Because fsmithred's refractsinstaller ROCKS!
00:52:05 <fsmithred> initially because it was easier. Currently because I haven't had time to incorporate debian-installer into the live-isos
00:52:09 <golinux> mason: "live images"
00:52:25 <mason> Oh, hm, didn't realize they included an installer.
00:52:36 <fsmithred> try Star or Crows or GnuinOS
00:53:08 <fsmithred> there may be other desktops there, too, but I don't think they have chimaera images yet.
00:54:09 <golinux> I haven't seen any announcements to that effect.
00:55:01 <fsmithred> I looked at Star a few days ago and saw no chimaera
00:55:17 <EmanuelLoos[m]> mason: How difficult is it to add this functionality? The clamares installer does seem a bit more user friendly. Is there more to this decision?
00:55:54 <golinux> Figure it out and let us know.
00:56:40 <mason> EmanuelLoos[m]: It's just package selection, so whatever system you're using, have some knob or screen that lets the user choose. How difficult it'd be to implement depends on whatever the codebase is I guess.
00:57:29 <mason> EmanuelLoos[m]: I'm hugely fond of debootstrap and manual set-up so it's a non-issue for me, so you could always start looking into that sort of thing too if you just want it for yourself.
00:57:53 <fsmithred> ^^^ 1+
00:58:56 <fsmithred> d-i does have a good partitioner. The live installer doesn't do lvm or raid
01:26:11 <skinnyboy_> Hello again, the dualboot in the virtual machine has gone well, but to pass it to physical computer, something has gone wrong, I've been reading and I'll ask a couple of questions, but first I want to say if I can do it as in my mind is projected:
01:26:12 <skinnyboy_> 1. I have started with a live and I have partitioned the entire hard disk already before installing any operating system, with the following scheme:
01:26:12 <skinnyboy_> sda1 EFI System 500M
01:26:13 <skinnyboy_> sda2 Linux filesystem (boot) x M
01:26:13 <skinnyboy_> sda3 Linux filesystem (dm-crypt) x M
01:26:14 <skinnyboy_> sda4 Microsoft reserved 16M
01:26:14 <skinnyboy_> sda5 Windows recovery environment 300M
01:26:15 <skinnyboy_> sda6 Windows basic data (C:\)
01:26:15 <skinnyboy_> 2. I have formatted with FAT32 sda1, ext4 sda2 as sda3 will be an encrypted partition, sda4 nothing, sda5 ntfs, sda6 ntfs, both with mkntfs.
01:26:16 <skinnyboy_> 3. Now come my doubts:
01:26:16 <skinnyboy_> 3.1 do I mount sda1 in /boot/efi?
01:26:17 <skinnyboy_> 3.2 When I install devuan asks me something about grub and that I have to be careful if I install it (I broke the boot or put an entry in UEFI wrong), I leave without a bootmanager and bootloader devuan and then already with a live install Refind? could I do that?
01:26:17 <skinnyboy_> 3.3 Windows 10 will be smart in the installation and will be installed on the partitions that I told him or will be an anarchist and do whatever he wants?
01:26:18 <skinnyboy_> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
01:33:50 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, usually people just shrink the windows partition and then add partition(s) for linux.
01:34:27 <fsmithred> if starting with empty hard drive, installing windows first is generally better. Windows might clobber an existing linux installation.
01:34:27 <skinnyboy_> fsmithred In my eyes is more pretty for me when I do fdisk -l see efi first then gnu/linux and then windows
01:34:46 <fsmithred> lol, let me know if it works.
01:34:52 <skinnyboy_> yeah ofc ill do
01:34:59 <skinnyboy_> And if works ill do a guide
01:35:07 <fsmithred> refind will save you if you have problems
01:35:19 <skinnyboy_> Really can i install refind over grub?
01:35:19 <fsmithred> I keep it on a small usb stick for emergency use
01:35:44 <fsmithred> yeah, you can install refind. I don't recall exactly what you have to do, but it's in the repo.
01:36:31 <skinnyboy_> My thought is that being UEFI and not BIOS it doesn't matter the order of installation since it generates two different entries in UEFI, it only reads FAT32 partitions and inside these are all the bootloaders, I think so.
01:36:35 <fsmithred> are you using the live installer? (refractainstaller)
01:36:45 <skinnyboy_> What installer is that?
01:36:57 <fsmithred> just make sure that windows doesn't decide to use the whole disk.
01:36:58 <skinnyboy_> im right now finishing partitioning in arch iso
01:37:15 <fsmithred> the live isos use a different installer
01:37:23 <skinnyboy_> Ill see if windows do that and if it does ill install windows first like all people
01:37:32 <skinnyboy_> Can i chroot then?
01:37:52 <skinnyboy_> mount all the system sda1 in /mnt/boot/efi and so on.. and then install refind for repos on chroot jail
01:37:57 <fsmithred> yeah, you can chroot from a live iso
01:38:01 <skinnyboy_> perfect
01:38:04 <skinnyboy_> Ill do that better
01:38:21 <skinnyboy_> I just want to learn breaking things
01:38:26 <fsmithred> all the devuan live isos have devuan debootstrap installed
01:38:59 <n4dir> else you could always install it. Even the distro (usually) doesn't matter
01:39:32 <n4dir> you'd have the debian version though, from other distros, i'd assume
01:40:18 <skinnyboy_> n4dir the problem is if I install grub registry on uefi my pc doesnt recognize it
01:40:51 <n4dir> skinnyboy_, i just made a side note about debootstrap, i hardly ran in UEFI yet, and if, it sucked.
01:40:54 <skinnyboy_> From devuan install
01:43:14 <skinnyboy_> I am newbie to GNU/Linux ecosystem and for me being spanish and having a lil bit of knowledge about it is hard.
01:44:01 <skinnyboy_> With BIOS firmware it was all easy, cause grub was installed on a disk and thats all, even if he has to bootchain it was smart enought to do it
01:44:59 <fsmithred> for uefi, the command is just 'grub-install'
01:45:28 <fsmithred> you don't need to name a disk or partition. And yes, you must have the efi partition mounted at /boot/efi for it to work.
01:46:24 <fsmithred> and a few other things if you're in a chroot.
01:46:34 <skinnyboy_> https://wiki.debian.org/GrubEFIReinstall#Using_the_rEFInd_rescue_media ill follow this guide
01:47:04 <skinnyboy_> ill not install grub ill install windows and ill reinstall it again
01:47:13 <skinnyboy_> Im all ears
01:54:41 <fsmithred> oh bind-mount /dev /proc and /sys
01:54:51 <fsmithred> for installing grub in chroot
01:55:15 <fsmithred> those were the few other things I meant
02:00:12 <skinnyboy_> what bind-mount means?
02:00:34 <skinnyboy_> Ill go for refinds i feel is more simple just mounting all fs and then chroot and instaling it
02:00:55 <n4dir> that is what man mount says: "Remount part of the file hierarchy somewhere else. "
02:01:22 <n4dir> proc, sys and dev are already mounted, but am mounted again for the chroot.
02:01:39 <n4dir> not that i would have ever thought about it. If doing chroot, i am told: to this and that. I just do it
02:04:38 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, the instructions you linked are for using removable media to boot and install grub
02:04:56 <n4dir> not saying anything wrong with asking what exactly it does. Just saying why i for one don't really know the details
02:06:11 <skinnyboy_> fsmithred If i broke something ill ask again xD
02:06:14 <fsmithred> I don't know all the details, either. I know it makes grub happy.
02:06:18 <skinnyboy_> Im so sorry guys or girls!
02:06:26 <fsmithred> ok, I think you'll find your way.
02:06:35 <skinnyboy_> Do u think xD?
02:07:44 <n4dir> as of now i couldn't convince my uefil pc to boot from usb stick. lol
02:08:24 <gnarface> some stuff also needs /dev/pts mounted in the chroot
02:08:24 <n4dir> but that is probably really me, good luck, skinnyboy_ , you should be able to do it
02:09:09 <fsmithred> gnarface, yeah, I usually do that one, too.
02:09:39 <n4dir> re-installing grub doesn't need it though, iirc
02:09:40 <fsmithred> I scripted it so I wouldn't have to type it all.
02:09:51 <skinnyboy_> I think the best option is just refind iso and boot kernel from devuan and in devuan just install refind
02:10:00 <fsmithred> it does need it if you install grub in chroot.
02:10:04 <skinnyboy_> n4dir thanks!
02:10:30 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, yeah, that sounds like the easiest way.
02:10:48 <skinnyboy_> yes but i got all the information in my mind and is driving me crazy
02:10:58 <skinnyboy_> its new things to learn from me
02:10:59 <skinnyboy_> for*
02:11:22 <n4dir> i remember very well how confusing chroot was for me. If done a few times, it is pretty straight forward.
02:11:34 <fsmithred> if you learn better by reading, then read some more. If you learn better by doing, then just do it.
02:11:41 <fsmithred> maybe a few times.
02:11:54 <skinnyboy_> fsmithred But i read a problem when ur installing it from chroot see here :
02:12:03 <skinnyboy_> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=252853
02:15:16 <fsmithred> if you do a deboostrap install from live media and then chroot, you would just run 'apt install refind' I think.
02:15:51 <fsmithred> I've only done it from an installed system and let it replace grub.
02:16:24 <fsmithred> if you try that, just check the refind config file to see if it's right.
02:25:01 <skinnyboy_> In the install media i dont have an option to mount efi partition on /boot7efi
02:25:36 <skinnyboy_> */boot/efi
02:25:42 <fsmithred> what installer are you using
02:25:46 <skinnyboy_> devuan
02:25:49 <skinnyboy_> netinstall
02:26:25 <fsmithred> if you selected the efi partition during the install, the installer will know what to do with it.
02:26:32 <fsmithred> well...
02:26:41 <fsmithred> it does that when you are getting ready to install grub
02:26:41 <skinnyboy_> perfect
02:27:11 <fsmithred> so I guess you could switch to a root console then and chroot /target
02:27:12 <skinnyboy_> but if i install grub from devuan installer put entry on UEFO bootmanager wrong
02:27:25 <skinnyboy_> can i chang it with efibootmgr
02:27:28 <skinnyboy_> ill try all
02:27:48 <fsmithred> the installer normally makes all the right boot entries, including one for windows
02:28:02 <skinnyboy_> then is my UEFI version
02:28:04 <skinnyboy_> is an old pc
03:32:15 <skinnyboy_> Ok windows is working
03:32:29 <skinnyboy_> Im now booting on a live iso and im going to install grub
03:32:47 <skinnyboy_> Windows respect partitions if u do it manually
03:54:20 <skinnyboy_> error when i try to mount luks partition saying unknow filesystem type LVM2_Member
03:54:24 <skinnyboy_> why?
03:56:20 <skinnyboy_> Im stupid
03:57:19 <Hydragyrum> vgchange -ay and then in /dev/<volume group name>/ there will be the logical volumes from that LVM pool
03:57:41 <Hydragyrum> The standard installer-encrypted option uses LVM inside a LUKS container
04:01:05 <skinnyboy_> yes i was mounting /dev/mapper/name
04:01:13 <skinnyboy_> Instead /dev/vgroupname/root
04:01:51 <skinnyboy_> but i think i fuck up
04:02:20 <skinnyboy_> In the installation i dont put boot as mount point and creates me boot directory with the files in /
04:02:36 <skinnyboy_> can i mv all on /boot and copy it to the sda2 partition?
04:03:37 <skinnyboy_> i have sda2 partition to be "boot" but i forget in the installation gui to put it now i have all files in /boot in sda4 instead sda2 ;(
04:04:10 <skinnyboy_> even in the fstab i dont have the mount point LMAO
04:04:15 <skinnyboy_> im done x
06:59:57 <n4dir> lspci gives VGA and Display Controler, second said to be Secondary. Both lines have: Radeon Xpress 1150. Do i need some kind of firmware for it?
07:00:05 <n4dir> can't copy and paste right now
07:00:36 <n4dir> ah, wait, sure i can, give me a second
07:04:24 <n4dir> http://0x0.st/-3ei.txt
07:19:23 <gnarface> n4dir: if it's newer you might need firmware-amd-graphics from non-free
07:19:58 <n4dir> gnarface: the PC is probably older than 10 years. It already is 64 bit, but it really is old
07:20:28 <n4dir> i never had a decent graphics with it, though pretty raw i hammered a few packages at it.
07:20:56 <gnarface> could you use paste.debian.net and paste your Xorg.0.log ?
07:21:18 <gnarface> i think it should "just work" but you might be missing packages
07:21:33 <gnarface> occasionally you might need an xorg.conf snippet
07:21:36 <rwp> Are you having problems? Or just asking if it should have a firmware package for solid operation?
07:21:56 <gnarface> oh, i assumed there were problems, i guess that's a pertinent question
07:21:57 <rwp> I think it is an older Radeon and therefore I think it should Just Work. I think.
07:22:22 <gnarface> after enough years of experience with xorg though i would sanity check the log to make sure it's even chosen the right driver
07:22:30 <n4dir> rwp: no problems now. I installed, booted to tty, am installing what is needed while rsync'ing the data an in place. So kinda waiting for rsync to finish
07:22:32 <rwp> Checking the log file is an excellent idea.
07:23:08 <n4dir> yeah, it kinda works. Just not that smooth. But, as said, i also could never enhance that in the past
07:23:15 <rwp> My Radeon based systems have xserver-xorg-video-radeon and firmware-amd-graphics installed. But also have firmware-misc-nonfree too.
07:23:47 <n4dir> kernel module in use: radeon
07:23:53 <n4dir> says lscpi
07:24:13 <gnarface> seems right then
07:24:31 <gnarface> you could be missing mesa packages still
07:24:37 <n4dir> thanks to both of you. I will try to keep both packages in mind, and if too lousy, try it with them
07:25:17 <rwp> How are you building up the installation? I read it was a minimum install first. Then more additions?
07:25:53 <n4dir> well, once at it: short feedback, i used the chimaera (?) iso, all worked fine, i picked openrc, seems to work fine too, also lvm with encryption (no idea why i did it though, only for the lulz)
07:26:07 <gnarface> make sure you have libgl1-mesa-glx
07:26:15 <rwp> I think using "tasksel" is a reasonable way to pick things. But otherwise my desktop has task-desktop task-xfce-desktop and also for me here task-english installed. Those drag in most of everything for a full XFCE desktop.
07:26:28 <n4dir> rwp: yeah, just the iso. then partitioning i just pick defaults. deselect gui-environment during tasksel. then after reboot install what i think i need
07:26:53 <n4dir> yeah, right, sometimes i just go for xfce too. Depends on my mood
07:27:18 <n4dir> so the short version of my installation process really boils down to: hammer on the enter key
07:27:35 <n4dir> nothing fancy
07:28:52 <n4dir> i was a little bit astonished after deselecting "gui" during tasksel having seen stuff like "adwaita-something" bing installed. Other stuff which looked gui like too, forgot what
07:29:14 <rwp> LVM with encryption is the way my main laptop is configured too. It's a stable and mature configuration.
07:30:33 <n4dir> too me neither LVM nor encryption is of much use. As said: very easy use case here. This PC is for no special use, so i just gave it a try
07:30:44 <rwp> I don't know what would have pulled in the adwaita theme stuff if you did not have a desktop selected for installation. No idea.
07:31:00 <n4dir> yeah, i was a bit confused. But nothing to exciting
07:31:21 <n4dir> after reboot i checked if some xorg stuff is installed, but no
07:32:21 <rwp> Seems that adwaita-icon-theme is used by libreoffice and various web browsers...
07:32:43 <n4dir> let me install aptitude and ask "why"
07:33:04 <n4dir> should have done it right after installation.
07:34:40 <n4dir> well, firefox i installed after installation. But libgtk3-0 was of the other packages i wondered why they were installed
07:35:03 <n4dir> also something-someting-wayland (libs too)
08:18:19 <n4dir> little problem. having "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs, i get "configuration error, unknown item "ALWAYS_SET_PATH" (inform admin)
08:21:29 <rwp> n4dir, Where is ALWAYS_SET_PATH for login.defs documented? I am unfamiliar with that setting. And it appears to be undocumented. Is it a real setting?
08:22:22 <rwp> Other than setting UMASK 02 for shared work for UPG (user private groups) I don't have any other modifications to the login.defs file.
08:22:55 <rwp> Most users use their system for years and never look at that file.
08:23:06 <Jjp137> it's mentioned here but it's for /etc/default/su: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/Release_notes.txt
08:23:44 <rwp> That document says the setting is for /etc/default/su not /etc/login.defs though.
08:23:48 <Jjp137> so I don't think it belongs in /etc/login.defs
08:24:31 <rwp> For the su thing one should just always be in the habit of using "su -" though. That's always been a good habit.
08:24:50 <n4dir> uhum. Wondering why it was in login.defs on the old install i just overwrote too. Probably the same web result
08:24:53 <n4dir> let me try
08:25:52 <n4dir> yup, that was it. That way i like problems. Solved in the blink of an eye. thanks folks
08:27:45 <n4dir> rwp: btw, funny enough on this chimaera installation the graphics is pretty decent, out of box, way better then i remember it (i think it was you i talked to about it)
08:29:49 <rwp> We may have talked about it but only you could see it. :-)
08:31:23 <n4dir> cool then. Anyway, looks like most is set up now. Everything, for such a crappy PC, like a charme.
08:32:03 <n4dir> with openrc, starting openbox and only a terminal emulator running, ~100 MB RAM usage. Nice, nice
2021-09-18
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