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2021-09-16
09:48:48 <ibanja_> I am trying to install falkon. I am getting "falkon : Depends: libkf5wallet-bin but it is not going to be installed
09:48:48 <ibanja_> " followed by "... you have held broken packages."
09:48:48 <ibanja_> I've tried the standard 'apt install -f' 'dist-upgrade'... tried aptitude... now synaptic pkg manager says it wants to remove lvm2 to fix dependency issues...
09:49:08 <ibanja_> any ideas?
09:50:40 <fluffywolf> what does aptitude try doing?
09:53:00 <ibanja_> this is aptitudes output: https://paste.debian.net/1212058/
09:53:56 <ibanja_> aptitude why-not falkon output: https://paste.debian.net/1212059/
09:54:39 <fluffywolf> ok, that's going to take someone who knows more about those packages than I do to help.
09:56:48 <ibanja_> it's a puzzler... I noticed, on the why-not output that all the recommends and provides are i386. I show a 4.19.0-17-amd64 kernel. Is that strange?
09:57:14 <fluffywolf> the why-not looks incorrect and/or useless.
09:57:36 <fluffywolf> you usually end up with i386 stuff on amd64 when you install wine, as wine needs the 32-bit libraries to run 32-bit programs.
09:58:05 <ibanja_> OK... I did install i386 wine
09:58:09 <Hydragyrum> why-not makes it look like a multilib thing with few packages, the aptitude install solution implies wine is the problem
10:00:09 <fluffywolf> what does "aptitude install falkon wine32:i386" give?
10:01:22 <ibanja_> aptitude install falkon wine32:i386 gives the same basic output as just trying to install falkon...
10:01:44 <ibanja_> also, I have the same wine packages on another computer that had no problelms installing falkon.
10:02:01 <fluffywolf> does it still suggest uninstalling it?
10:02:42 <fluffywolf> try "r wine32:i386 uninst" and "n" at the prompt
10:02:42 <ibanja_> maybe I should just try it.. and then try installing wine again
10:02:50 * fluffywolf tries to remember aptitude commands
10:04:25 <ibanja_> fluffywolf: not sure what you mean
10:05:13 <fluffywolf> when aptitude asks you if you want to accept that solution, enter that r command, followed by n for no.
10:05:34 <fluffywolf> (if I remember my aptitude correctly)
10:06:36 <fluffywolf> r is reject, saying you will reject any solution that involves doing something, then the package, and uninst... so you're saying it has to keep thinking until it finds a solution that doesn't involve uninstalling that package.
10:09:22 <ibanja_> I just went with the aptitude first suggestion which unistalled 32bit wine... then re-installed the wine and everything is working fine now
10:09:51 <ibanja_> Thanks for the help
10:13:11 <fluffywolf> aptitude can be very useful and very frustrating at the same time. heh.
10:15:58 <ibanja_> agreed
21:11:53 <Guest11> rwp Hi! I just booted the live system version of Devuan Chimaera, as I was asked, and this is the dmesg output on it > https://pastebin.com/0Y05Lh8E
21:14:08 <Guest11> Also, I would like to report, I had once more, a simillar, to previously reported my me, mouse input issue, but there also happened to be some problem with the keyboard control, like the caps lock once turned on couldn't be turned off, and the issue didn't end after a while, as it happened before
21:14:49 <Guest11> That was on my normal system, not the live.
21:15:18 <Guest11> I will provide dmesg output I did after having that issue too.
21:16:10 <Guest11> Also, it behaved in a strange way, where the left mouse click was detected when I clicked on some places, but not while on the others.
21:18:04 <Guest11> Like, I could left click on the desktop area just well, and in some windows, but the window outer border with close, maximize, and minimize button didn't react to the left click.
21:18:50 <Guest11> And there were other areas which didn't react, and other that could be clicked on.
21:22:15 <Guest11> Dmesg done after the problem with input > https://pastebin.com/N8a68naF
21:27:00 <Guest11> Please write what you think could cause those 2 issues and how do you think it could be fixed. I will quit now to boot from my default installation, but read the answers in the logs, and continue after a while, if there will be any more needed information.
21:50:20 <gnarface> Guest11: not really sure but the mce hardware error thing rings a bell maybe look into disabling that
21:50:37 <gnarface> Guest11: maybe acpi too
21:54:06 <Guest11> gnarface Could you write more about that first? Disabling what?
21:54:42 <gnarface> i don't recall clearly sorry
21:54:47 <gnarface> you'll have to search online about it
21:54:57 <gnarface> make sure it's not overheating too
21:55:25 <gnarface> is that nvidia hardware? if it's nvidia hardware you may need the non-free drivers
21:55:35 <gnarface> not sure if they'd be on the livecd by default or not
21:55:42 <Guest11> I use them. I installed them.
21:56:19 <Guest11> Those are not installed by default.
22:02:13 <gnarface> did you install the cpu microcode package too?
22:03:19 <gnarface> same mce error stuff on both pastes
22:03:46 <gnarface> "MDS CPU bug present and SMT on..."
22:03:52 <Guest11> gnarface I did install intell-microcode and firmware-misc-nonfree
22:03:54 <gnarface> check that part out and search up the relevance
22:04:13 <Guest11> I have also amd64-microcode, although I guess it is not needed.
22:06:30 <gnarface> not if it's an intel brand cpu
22:07:17 <Guest11> It is an Intel brand cpu.
22:15:08 <gnarface> there is a url mentioned in the second paste
22:15:12 <gnarface> it might have some hints
22:15:21 <gnarface> near the mce error
22:15:24 <gnarface> right after it by a few lines
22:16:18 <Guest11> You mean this: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/hw-vuln/mds.html ?
22:19:30 <Guest11> My /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds contains "Mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable"
22:19:45 <gnarface> seems like it could be a known bug and you need a patch
22:19:53 <gnarface> seems like you might also need to change a bios setting in the mean time
22:20:07 <gnarface> that might be controllable by a kernel command-line parameter or something else too though not sure
22:20:24 <gnarface> just seems like a bug i remember from before
22:34:07 <GyrosGeier> does it matter?
22:34:22 <GyrosGeier> basically, the bug allows data exfiltration between processes
22:34:33 <GyrosGeier> that is a problem only if you have multiple users
22:34:55 <GyrosGeier> and possibly if you run untrusted code
22:40:29 <Guest11> Then it shouldn't cause any problems with Wi-Fi, or mouse and keyboard input, right?
22:43:33 <Guest11> gnarface: what bios setting did you mean?
22:46:16 <gnarface> Guest11: something to do with smt
22:46:32 <gnarface> probably wouldn't be called that though
22:46:55 <gnarface> also maybe acpi
22:51:49 <GyrosGeier> SMT is also called HyperThreading
22:52:00 <GyrosGeier> i.e. multiple threads sharing one CPU core
22:52:12 <GyrosGeier> and, by extension, cache
22:52:33 <Guest11> I have it enabled.
22:53:03 <GyrosGeier> there are a few buggy generations of Intel CPUs that don't isolate the threads appropriately
22:53:03 <Guest11> It is needed for a higher performance. Isn't it? I wouldn't want to lose it.'
22:53:10 <GyrosGeier> exactly
22:53:42 <GyrosGeier> the point in having SMT is that memory accesses take a long time from the CPU's point of view
22:53:57 <GyrosGeier> so every time a program reads from memory, it stalls there
22:54:01 <GyrosGeier> then the CPU is idle
22:54:23 <GyrosGeier> so they pack two processes onto the same CPU, and if one is stalled, the other can progress
22:54:48 <Guest11> I will just change that acpi for now. I guess this could cause some issues.
22:55:06 <GyrosGeier> the problem is that if one of them is untrusted code, and the other is some tool handling sensitive material, the shared cache allows stealing data
22:55:15 <GyrosGeier> that is what it's complaining about
22:55:49 <Guest11> I understand. I don't see how would that have anything to do with a Wi-Fi and input issues.
22:56:18 <gnarface> it was just in close proximity to that mce error
22:56:59 <gnarface> i thought maybe the kernel could have a bug with the implementation if it's a very new cpu model
22:57:41 <gnarface> there's a acpi error about some table value mismatch or something in the chimera one too
22:58:04 <gnarface> other than that i didn't see anything really suspicious so i just suggested fiddling with those to see if they have any affect on the system stability
22:58:27 <gnarface> the graphical freeze up seems like an xorg issue but we only see cpu and acpi errors here
22:59:46 <gnarface> i'm sure if you stick around long enough someone else might have better ideas
23:06:54 <Guest10> So I changed the sata operation setting from AHCI to "RAID ON", and the system couldn't even boot, because of some errors
23:08:07 <Guest11> I am using both "Guest10" and "Guest11" now, to be clear.
23:09:57 <Guest11> Is there some file where are those system messages from the previous boot registered?
23:10:59 <Guest11> Oh, acpi... I mistook those things.
23:13:41 <GyrosGeier> lol
23:14:05 <GyrosGeier> the SATA controller can be in legacy, AHCI or RAID mode
23:15:25 <GyrosGeier> RAID mode is pretty much like AHCI except it uses a different PCI ID that says that the user configured multiple disks to work together
23:15:50 <GyrosGeier> unless you have configured that, RAID mode will not work for you
23:16:29 <Guest11> I had some bugs with no drive detected, while trying to install a system from usb, while on RAID mode, so I kept this on AHCI.
23:16:44 <GyrosGeier> yes
23:16:52 <Guest11> It don't boot the system correctly now while it is on RAID.
23:16:56 <GyrosGeier> RAID mode will not report any unconfigured drives
23:18:53 <Guest11> So I should try to disable the ACPI? If so, where can I do this?
23:41:49 <gnarface> does the livecd have a save mode boot entry still?
23:42:01 <gnarface> if Guest11 comes back have him try it
23:42:24 <gnarface> unless he figured it out
---------- 2021-09-17 ----------
00:13:33 <shapeshifter_> Hello, I got the '...your request is spam.' when trying to register.
00:30:55 <golinux> shapeshifter_ was too impatient . . .
00:48:13 <karjala> Does Devuan Beowulf have the same versions of packages as Debian Buster?
00:55:37 <n4dir> somewhere is a side which explains the relation, the way debian packages are used in devuan, but i can't find it. The short and amateur answer is: yes (besides what is specific to devuan)
00:56:11 <n4dir> in other words: debian packages are used as are.
01:00:29 <golinux> karjala: On this page the is a section on "Packages" https://www.devuan.org/os/explore
01:00:39 <golinux> the > there
01:04:01 <golinux> This post is also informative: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3192
01:04:44 <n4dir> i probably meant that forum post
01:51:41 <karjala> Thanks all.
04:22:59 <skinnyboy_> Hey
04:25:06 <harrydus-matrix> Ho
04:25:20 <skinnyboy_> Hello I just installed windows 10, as I need to dual boot to continue my classes with windows, I expose my situation, I have installed Windows 10 with UEFI/GPT, I have 3 partitions one system(efi partition), c: and recovery, what do I have to do to install devuan with UEFI/GPT and full disk encryption on the same disk?
04:26:52 <GyrosGeier> depends
04:27:06 <skinnyboy_> My thought is to first do everything in a virtual machine to see if it works, but my approach is to reduce the c: partition of windows, start with the live usb, encrypt with luks that partition and then install the bootloader on the windows system partition, that will work or how I could do it, I'm Spanish and I can not find anything useful.
04:27:15 <GyrosGeier> if Windows is encrypted (which it likely is) you need to shrink it with the Windows Volume Manager
04:27:33 <skinnyboy_> Windows is not encrypted i didnt use TPM and bitlocker
04:27:48 <GyrosGeier> okay, then you can also shrink it from gparted
04:27:52 <skinnyboy_> I dont care if someone see my NTFS partition cause ill use it just for the lulzs
04:28:30 <GyrosGeier> the bootloader must be an EFI bootloader as well, and it goes into the ESP
04:28:55 <GyrosGeier> so the EFI system partition is shared
04:29:00 <skinnyboy_> GyrosGeier Can I take advantage of the one created by windows?
04:29:05 <GyrosGeier> yes
04:29:09 <GyrosGeier> you must, even :)
04:29:22 <GyrosGeier> EFI supports exactly one ESP per drive
04:29:37 <skinnyboy_> I'm all ears :)
04:29:50 <GyrosGeier> Windows uses a 100 MB ESP, so that rules out systemd-boot
04:30:12 <skinnyboy_> I want use reFind
04:30:23 <skinnyboy_> Idk if i can.
04:30:32 <GyrosGeier> which is not good in this case, because you need to load the kernel and initrd from something the EFI system can access
04:30:58 <GyrosGeier> so probably grub-efi with a separate, unencrypted /boot partition
04:31:45 <skinnyboy_> Perfect, so grub-efix64, boot partition unencrypted and luks in the rest of space?
04:31:53 <GyrosGeier> yes
04:31:58 <skinnyboy_> and grub installed on efi windows partition?
04:32:11 <GyrosGeier> /boot needs enough space for three kernel+initrd sets at least
04:32:20 <skinnyboy_> 1GB?
04:32:45 <GyrosGeier> 500 MB is plenty
04:32:49 <skinnyboy_> Thanks so much im going to try it on vm and ill come back, thanks so much brother !
04:33:09 <GyrosGeier> 100 MB also works, so you could use the ESP here with systemd-boot, but it's tight
04:33:31 <GyrosGeier> I've tried that, and I get update errors sometimes
04:33:59 <GyrosGeier> the advantage of having the kernel in the ESP is that it's one fewer partition
04:34:10 <skinnyboy_> I am relieved to know that people also want to install in UEFI/GPT mode things.
04:34:28 <GyrosGeier> if reinstalling Windows is an option, you can also pre-partition from an USB stick before installing Windows
04:34:56 <GyrosGeier> 500 MB ESP, one partition for Windows, and then the Linux setup
04:35:12 <skinnyboy_> Ill try it but i know that im gonna break things xD
04:35:25 <GyrosGeier> point the Windows installer at the partition you reserved for it, and it will split that in system and recovery partitions
04:35:36 <GyrosGeier> and it will reuse the ESP
04:35:53 <GyrosGeier> (which needs to be formatted at this point, just normal FAT32)
04:36:15 <skinnyboy_> GyrosGeier Ill send u an image what i have alredy
04:36:18 <GyrosGeier> the nice thing is that Windows and Linux can then be selected from the BIOS boot screen
04:36:32 <GyrosGeier> which I use on my laptop to boot Windows by default
04:36:36 <GyrosGeier> less hassle at airports
04:37:02 <skinnyboy_> https://share.riseup.net/#PXe7AliN-Ua2mmX-M0WxZA
04:37:36 <GyrosGeier> yes, that's the default setup
04:37:53 <skinnyboy_> now ill resize c:
04:37:57 <GyrosGeier> also, these are basic partitions, so they don't use the Windows Volume Manager
04:38:01 <skinnyboy_> And ill do what u said it before
04:38:11 <GyrosGeier> so shrinking them will not work from Windows, but only from gparted
04:38:49 <skinnyboy_> I got to make gparted live?
04:38:59 <skinnyboy_> aiight i got ventoy so all good
04:39:07 <GyrosGeier> it should be included on the installer
04:39:19 <GyrosGeier> shrinking Windows during installation is a common task
04:39:26 <skinnyboy_> I forget it
04:39:37 <GyrosGeier> okay
04:39:39 <GyrosGeier> gotta go
04:39:50 <GyrosGeier> it is Friday 10 PM and I'm still at work
04:41:07 <skinnyboy_> https://share.riseup.net/#5pTlVORP-IOyj8Ebh2JUIQ
04:41:09 <skinnyboy_> Thanks bro
04:41:25 <skinnyboy_> here is friday 21:41
04:58:01 <skinnyboy_> Can i delete the efi partition on windows 10 and create a new one on /boot/EFI but before copying all on that partition?
05:08:17 <bltshzzr> you might be able to, but windows probably keeps track of the partition of its boot files
05:08:25 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, it sounds risky. I would use the existing efi partition. UEFI implementations are all different (don't follow standards)
05:09:09 <skinnyboy_> But I'm lost, it's a lot of data and I have no knowledge about initrams, efi partitions etc...
05:09:09 <bltshzzr> i'd say you're better off just adding a /boot partition after shrinking the c:\ partition (grub or systemd-boot won't take up too much space on efi)
05:10:00 <skinnyboy_> I'm reading the arch wiki to see if I get something clear but I'm confused, I mean I know that the efi partition contains .img, which are programs, but if I create a /boot partition in linux without encrypting what do I use it for?
05:10:07 <fsmithred> I just arrived, so I guess I don't know the situation.
05:10:30 <fsmithred> the /boot partition is for kernel and initramfs
05:10:54 <skinnyboy_> how devuan install this ones?
05:11:03 <fsmithred> those are usually unencrypted. It's possible to include /boot in the encrypted root, but kind of involved.
05:11:40 <fsmithred> where is all the data you mentioned? In the windows partition?
05:12:33 <skinnyboy_> i just installed windows with the default partition layout, and now i want to install devuan dual booting in mode UEFI/GPT
05:13:04 <fsmithred> shrink the windows partition then boot devuan and install it.
05:13:11 <skinnyboy_> But i dont know how uefi catch grub and grub catch windows and devuan, cause i dont know nothing about grub and kernel
05:13:19 <skinnyboy_> ill try it
05:13:23 <bltshzzr> they can coexist skinnyboy, but he's worried the 100MB efi partition windows gave him will be too small
05:13:26 <fsmithred> are you using secure boot?
05:13:37 <fsmithred> 100mb for efi is enough
05:13:45 <fsmithred> I've made them as small as 64mb
05:14:05 <skinnyboy_> no i disabled secure boot hibernate and fastboot
05:14:18 <fsmithred> ok, good
05:14:22 <fsmithred> that simplifies it
05:14:32 <skinnyboy_> But im feeling stupid xD
05:14:42 <fsmithred> if you want it encrypted, you should make a separate /boot partition
05:14:44 <skinnyboy_> Cause is hard to me to understand low level things
05:14:47 <fsmithred> 500mb is plenty
05:15:02 <skinnyboy_> Ill study more linux and less programming on java
05:15:11 <skinnyboy_> GNU/Linux*
05:15:20 <fsmithred> there are installer guides with pictures. I'll get a link.
05:15:44 <skinnyboy_> fsmithred Thanks :)
05:16:32 <fsmithred> https://www.devuan.org/os/install
05:16:48 <fsmithred> the install guides for beowulf should work fine for chimaera, too.
05:17:40 <fsmithred> do a defrag before you shrink the windows partition.
05:20:23 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, here's a good reference for uefi: https://rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/index.html
05:20:37 <skinnyboy_> Yes
05:20:40 <skinnyboy_> Ill have a dinner
05:21:02 <skinnyboy_> Im going to download a IRC client and im going to start reading more, and thank so much for all.
05:21:25 <skinnyboy_> I like so much this distro and is the thing i was looking for
06:16:21 <bltshzzr> anyone know if debootstrap works to install devuan from a live cd environment (probably chimaera)
06:16:46 <bltshzzr> or are there enough differences in the installer / from debian that it wouldn't be great
06:19:07 <n4dir> I do know that it works, but i forgot how. A quick web search gives results though. If you want someone to confirm those results, you will have to wait
06:19:40 <n4dir> if it was me i would trust the result from the forum.
06:23:25 <bb|hcb> https://gist.github.com/bbonev/a2737cdb96329edf3e444857920cb327
06:25:33 <fsmithred> bltshzzr, yes, you can debootstrap devuan from live media. The live isos both have debootstrap installed.
06:26:07 <fsmithred> but I think it's easier if you use devuan's debootstrap rather than debian's.
06:26:26 <fsmithred> not sure if debian forces you to install systemd. It probably does.
06:26:51 <n4dir> fsmithred: i think it was you who gave me the exact how to do it from debian, it wasn't hard or such.
06:27:12 <bltshzzr> thanks for the gist bb|hcb looks like if you use debians it might try and install systemd deps anyways
06:27:32 <fsmithred> refracta isos also have devuan debootstrap installed.
06:27:49 <bltshzzr> do yall think it'd be easier to switch to openrc after installation or can debootstrap choose a variant
06:28:28 <fsmithred> I think you get sysvinit with a debootstrap install. But maybe not.
06:29:07 <fsmithred> in the installer, it comes at the end, right before grub.
06:29:22 <bb|hcb> I had a problem booting Devuan and someone proposed this way. What I actually did was to install Debian and then converted it; debootstrap is cleaner, though
06:29:23 <fsmithred> either way, it's not difficult to switch later.
06:32:38 <bltshzzr> then i won't stress too much over it. it's not like i won't have setup to do afterwords anyways
06:37:58 <fsmithred> just check to see if it's installed when you chroot. If not, you get to tell it which init to install.
07:38:55 <harrydus-matrix> <fsmithred> "not sure if debian forces you to..." <- Yes, you can't prevent the installation of systemd (at least I don't know of an easy way). But you can still replace systemd with another init system, either at installation time or later: https://wiki.debian.org/Init
08:30:09 <rwp> harrydus-matrix, If installing a minimum system it is always possible, yes. But *MANY* packages in Debian are starting to hard require systemd. Those are the problem. libvirt for example.
08:30:49 <rwp> It all depends upon what you want to actually *do* with the system as to whether it is reasonable to use Debian without systemd or not.
08:48:58 <harrydus-matrix> rwp many of those packages which require systemd do also accept elogind as replacement. I was running Debian 11 on my notebook without systemd just a few days ago.
08:48:59 <harrydus-matrix> But you're right that keeping systemd out can become difficult eventually and it looks like the situation will get worse.
08:51:43 <golinux> This might be helpful to you: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt
2021-09-17
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