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2021-09-16
19:48:48 <ibanja_> I am trying to install falkon. I am getting "falkon : Depends: libkf5wallet-bin but it is not going to be installed
19:48:48 <ibanja_> " followed by "... you have held broken packages."
19:48:48 <ibanja_> I've tried the standard 'apt install -f' 'dist-upgrade'... tried aptitude... now synaptic pkg manager says it wants to remove lvm2 to fix dependency issues...
19:49:08 <ibanja_> any ideas?
19:50:40 <fluffywolf> what does aptitude try doing?
19:53:00 <ibanja_> this is aptitudes output: https://paste.debian.net/1212058/
19:53:56 <ibanja_> aptitude why-not falkon output: https://paste.debian.net/1212059/
19:54:39 <fluffywolf> ok, that's going to take someone who knows more about those packages than I do to help.
19:56:48 <ibanja_> it's a puzzler... I noticed, on the why-not output that all the recommends and provides are i386. I show a 4.19.0-17-amd64 kernel. Is that strange?
19:57:14 <fluffywolf> the why-not looks incorrect and/or useless.
19:57:36 <fluffywolf> you usually end up with i386 stuff on amd64 when you install wine, as wine needs the 32-bit libraries to run 32-bit programs.
19:58:05 <ibanja_> OK... I did install i386 wine
19:58:09 <Hydragyrum> why-not makes it look like a multilib thing with few packages, the aptitude install solution implies wine is the problem
20:00:09 <fluffywolf> what does "aptitude install falkon wine32:i386" give?
20:01:22 <ibanja_> aptitude install falkon wine32:i386 gives the same basic output as just trying to install falkon...
20:01:44 <ibanja_> also, I have the same wine packages on another computer that had no problelms installing falkon.
20:02:01 <fluffywolf> does it still suggest uninstalling it?
20:02:42 <fluffywolf> try "r wine32:i386 uninst" and "n" at the prompt
20:02:42 <ibanja_> maybe I should just try it.. and then try installing wine again
20:02:50 * fluffywolf tries to remember aptitude commands
20:04:25 <ibanja_> fluffywolf: not sure what you mean
20:05:13 <fluffywolf> when aptitude asks you if you want to accept that solution, enter that r command, followed by n for no.
20:05:34 <fluffywolf> (if I remember my aptitude correctly)
20:06:36 <fluffywolf> r is reject, saying you will reject any solution that involves doing something, then the package, and uninst... so you're saying it has to keep thinking until it finds a solution that doesn't involve uninstalling that package.
20:09:22 <ibanja_> I just went with the aptitude first suggestion which unistalled 32bit wine... then re-installed the wine and everything is working fine now
20:09:51 <ibanja_> Thanks for the help
20:13:11 <fluffywolf> aptitude can be very useful and very frustrating at the same time. heh.
20:15:58 <ibanja_> agreed
---------- 2021-09-17 ----------
07:11:53 <Guest11> rwp Hi! I just booted the live system version of Devuan Chimaera, as I was asked, and this is the dmesg output on it > https://pastebin.com/0Y05Lh8E
07:14:08 <Guest11> Also, I would like to report, I had once more, a simillar, to previously reported my me, mouse input issue, but there also happened to be some problem with the keyboard control, like the caps lock once turned on couldn't be turned off, and the issue didn't end after a while, as it happened before
07:14:49 <Guest11> That was on my normal system, not the live.
07:15:18 <Guest11> I will provide dmesg output I did after having that issue too.
07:16:10 <Guest11> Also, it behaved in a strange way, where the left mouse click was detected when I clicked on some places, but not while on the others.
07:18:04 <Guest11> Like, I could left click on the desktop area just well, and in some windows, but the window outer border with close, maximize, and minimize button didn't react to the left click.
07:18:50 <Guest11> And there were other areas which didn't react, and other that could be clicked on.
07:22:15 <Guest11> Dmesg done after the problem with input > https://pastebin.com/N8a68naF
07:27:00 <Guest11> Please write what you think could cause those 2 issues and how do you think it could be fixed. I will quit now to boot from my default installation, but read the answers in the logs, and continue after a while, if there will be any more needed information.
07:50:20 <gnarface> Guest11: not really sure but the mce hardware error thing rings a bell maybe look into disabling that
07:50:37 <gnarface> Guest11: maybe acpi too
07:54:06 <Guest11> gnarface Could you write more about that first? Disabling what?
07:54:42 <gnarface> i don't recall clearly sorry
07:54:47 <gnarface> you'll have to search online about it
07:54:57 <gnarface> make sure it's not overheating too
07:55:25 <gnarface> is that nvidia hardware? if it's nvidia hardware you may need the non-free drivers
07:55:35 <gnarface> not sure if they'd be on the livecd by default or not
07:55:42 <Guest11> I use them. I installed them.
07:56:19 <Guest11> Those are not installed by default.
08:02:13 <gnarface> did you install the cpu microcode package too?
08:03:19 <gnarface> same mce error stuff on both pastes
08:03:46 <gnarface> "MDS CPU bug present and SMT on..."
08:03:52 <Guest11> gnarface I did install intell-microcode and firmware-misc-nonfree
08:03:54 <gnarface> check that part out and search up the relevance
08:04:13 <Guest11> I have also amd64-microcode, although I guess it is not needed.
08:06:30 <gnarface> not if it's an intel brand cpu
08:07:17 <Guest11> It is an Intel brand cpu.
08:15:08 <gnarface> there is a url mentioned in the second paste
08:15:12 <gnarface> it might have some hints
08:15:21 <gnarface> near the mce error
08:15:24 <gnarface> right after it by a few lines
08:16:18 <Guest11> You mean this: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/hw-vuln/mds.html ?
08:19:30 <Guest11> My /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds contains "Mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable"
08:19:45 <gnarface> seems like it could be a known bug and you need a patch
08:19:53 <gnarface> seems like you might also need to change a bios setting in the mean time
08:20:07 <gnarface> that might be controllable by a kernel command-line parameter or something else too though not sure
08:20:24 <gnarface> just seems like a bug i remember from before
08:34:07 <GyrosGeier> does it matter?
08:34:22 <GyrosGeier> basically, the bug allows data exfiltration between processes
08:34:33 <GyrosGeier> that is a problem only if you have multiple users
08:34:55 <GyrosGeier> and possibly if you run untrusted code
08:40:29 <Guest11> Then it shouldn't cause any problems with Wi-Fi, or mouse and keyboard input, right?
08:43:33 <Guest11> gnarface: what bios setting did you mean?
08:46:16 <gnarface> Guest11: something to do with smt
08:46:32 <gnarface> probably wouldn't be called that though
08:46:55 <gnarface> also maybe acpi
08:51:49 <GyrosGeier> SMT is also called HyperThreading
08:52:00 <GyrosGeier> i.e. multiple threads sharing one CPU core
08:52:12 <GyrosGeier> and, by extension, cache
08:52:33 <Guest11> I have it enabled.
08:53:03 <GyrosGeier> there are a few buggy generations of Intel CPUs that don't isolate the threads appropriately
08:53:03 <Guest11> It is needed for a higher performance. Isn't it? I wouldn't want to lose it.'
08:53:10 <GyrosGeier> exactly
08:53:42 <GyrosGeier> the point in having SMT is that memory accesses take a long time from the CPU's point of view
08:53:57 <GyrosGeier> so every time a program reads from memory, it stalls there
08:54:01 <GyrosGeier> then the CPU is idle
08:54:23 <GyrosGeier> so they pack two processes onto the same CPU, and if one is stalled, the other can progress
08:54:48 <Guest11> I will just change that acpi for now. I guess this could cause some issues.
08:55:06 <GyrosGeier> the problem is that if one of them is untrusted code, and the other is some tool handling sensitive material, the shared cache allows stealing data
08:55:15 <GyrosGeier> that is what it's complaining about
08:55:49 <Guest11> I understand. I don't see how would that have anything to do with a Wi-Fi and input issues.
08:56:18 <gnarface> it was just in close proximity to that mce error
08:56:59 <gnarface> i thought maybe the kernel could have a bug with the implementation if it's a very new cpu model
08:57:41 <gnarface> there's a acpi error about some table value mismatch or something in the chimera one too
08:58:04 <gnarface> other than that i didn't see anything really suspicious so i just suggested fiddling with those to see if they have any affect on the system stability
08:58:27 <gnarface> the graphical freeze up seems like an xorg issue but we only see cpu and acpi errors here
08:59:46 <gnarface> i'm sure if you stick around long enough someone else might have better ideas
09:06:54 <Guest10> So I changed the sata operation setting from AHCI to "RAID ON", and the system couldn't even boot, because of some errors
09:08:07 <Guest11> I am using both "Guest10" and "Guest11" now, to be clear.
09:09:57 <Guest11> Is there some file where are those system messages from the previous boot registered?
09:10:59 <Guest11> Oh, acpi... I mistook those things.
09:13:41 <GyrosGeier> lol
09:14:05 <GyrosGeier> the SATA controller can be in legacy, AHCI or RAID mode
09:15:25 <GyrosGeier> RAID mode is pretty much like AHCI except it uses a different PCI ID that says that the user configured multiple disks to work together
09:15:50 <GyrosGeier> unless you have configured that, RAID mode will not work for you
09:16:29 <Guest11> I had some bugs with no drive detected, while trying to install a system from usb, while on RAID mode, so I kept this on AHCI.
09:16:44 <GyrosGeier> yes
09:16:52 <Guest11> It don't boot the system correctly now while it is on RAID.
09:16:56 <GyrosGeier> RAID mode will not report any unconfigured drives
09:18:53 <Guest11> So I should try to disable the ACPI? If so, where can I do this?
09:41:49 <gnarface> does the livecd have a save mode boot entry still?
09:42:01 <gnarface> if Guest11 comes back have him try it
09:42:24 <gnarface> unless he figured it out
10:13:33 <shapeshifter_> Hello, I got the '...your request is spam.' when trying to register.
10:30:55 <golinux> shapeshifter_ was too impatient . . .
10:48:13 <karjala> Does Devuan Beowulf have the same versions of packages as Debian Buster?
10:55:37 <n4dir> somewhere is a side which explains the relation, the way debian packages are used in devuan, but i can't find it. The short and amateur answer is: yes (besides what is specific to devuan)
10:56:11 <n4dir> in other words: debian packages are used as are.
11:00:29 <golinux> karjala: On this page the is a section on "Packages" https://www.devuan.org/os/explore
11:00:39 <golinux> the > there
11:04:01 <golinux> This post is also informative: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3192
11:04:44 <n4dir> i probably meant that forum post
11:51:41 <karjala> Thanks all.
14:22:59 <skinnyboy_> Hey
14:25:06 <harrydus-matrix> Ho
14:25:20 <skinnyboy_> Hello I just installed windows 10, as I need to dual boot to continue my classes with windows, I expose my situation, I have installed Windows 10 with UEFI/GPT, I have 3 partitions one system(efi partition), c: and recovery, what do I have to do to install devuan with UEFI/GPT and full disk encryption on the same disk?
14:26:52 <GyrosGeier> depends
14:27:06 <skinnyboy_> My thought is to first do everything in a virtual machine to see if it works, but my approach is to reduce the c: partition of windows, start with the live usb, encrypt with luks that partition and then install the bootloader on the windows system partition, that will work or how I could do it, I'm Spanish and I can not find anything useful.
14:27:15 <GyrosGeier> if Windows is encrypted (which it likely is) you need to shrink it with the Windows Volume Manager
14:27:33 <skinnyboy_> Windows is not encrypted i didnt use TPM and bitlocker
14:27:48 <GyrosGeier> okay, then you can also shrink it from gparted
14:27:52 <skinnyboy_> I dont care if someone see my NTFS partition cause ill use it just for the lulzs
14:28:30 <GyrosGeier> the bootloader must be an EFI bootloader as well, and it goes into the ESP
14:28:55 <GyrosGeier> so the EFI system partition is shared
14:29:00 <skinnyboy_> GyrosGeier Can I take advantage of the one created by windows?
14:29:05 <GyrosGeier> yes
14:29:09 <GyrosGeier> you must, even :)
14:29:22 <GyrosGeier> EFI supports exactly one ESP per drive
14:29:37 <skinnyboy_> I'm all ears :)
14:29:50 <GyrosGeier> Windows uses a 100 MB ESP, so that rules out systemd-boot
14:30:12 <skinnyboy_> I want use reFind
14:30:23 <skinnyboy_> Idk if i can.
14:30:32 <GyrosGeier> which is not good in this case, because you need to load the kernel and initrd from something the EFI system can access
14:30:58 <GyrosGeier> so probably grub-efi with a separate, unencrypted /boot partition
14:31:45 <skinnyboy_> Perfect, so grub-efix64, boot partition unencrypted and luks in the rest of space?
14:31:53 <GyrosGeier> yes
14:31:58 <skinnyboy_> and grub installed on efi windows partition?
14:32:11 <GyrosGeier> /boot needs enough space for three kernel+initrd sets at least
14:32:20 <skinnyboy_> 1GB?
14:32:45 <GyrosGeier> 500 MB is plenty
14:32:49 <skinnyboy_> Thanks so much im going to try it on vm and ill come back, thanks so much brother !
14:33:09 <GyrosGeier> 100 MB also works, so you could use the ESP here with systemd-boot, but it's tight
14:33:31 <GyrosGeier> I've tried that, and I get update errors sometimes
14:33:59 <GyrosGeier> the advantage of having the kernel in the ESP is that it's one fewer partition
14:34:10 <skinnyboy_> I am relieved to know that people also want to install in UEFI/GPT mode things.
14:34:28 <GyrosGeier> if reinstalling Windows is an option, you can also pre-partition from an USB stick before installing Windows
14:34:56 <GyrosGeier> 500 MB ESP, one partition for Windows, and then the Linux setup
14:35:12 <skinnyboy_> Ill try it but i know that im gonna break things xD
14:35:25 <GyrosGeier> point the Windows installer at the partition you reserved for it, and it will split that in system and recovery partitions
14:35:36 <GyrosGeier> and it will reuse the ESP
14:35:53 <GyrosGeier> (which needs to be formatted at this point, just normal FAT32)
14:36:15 <skinnyboy_> GyrosGeier Ill send u an image what i have alredy
14:36:18 <GyrosGeier> the nice thing is that Windows and Linux can then be selected from the BIOS boot screen
14:36:32 <GyrosGeier> which I use on my laptop to boot Windows by default
14:36:36 <GyrosGeier> less hassle at airports
14:37:02 <skinnyboy_> https://share.riseup.net/#PXe7AliN-Ua2mmX-M0WxZA
14:37:36 <GyrosGeier> yes, that's the default setup
14:37:53 <skinnyboy_> now ill resize c:
14:37:57 <GyrosGeier> also, these are basic partitions, so they don't use the Windows Volume Manager
14:38:01 <skinnyboy_> And ill do what u said it before
14:38:11 <GyrosGeier> so shrinking them will not work from Windows, but only from gparted
14:38:49 <skinnyboy_> I got to make gparted live?
14:38:59 <skinnyboy_> aiight i got ventoy so all good
14:39:07 <GyrosGeier> it should be included on the installer
14:39:19 <GyrosGeier> shrinking Windows during installation is a common task
14:39:26 <skinnyboy_> I forget it
14:39:37 <GyrosGeier> okay
14:39:39 <GyrosGeier> gotta go
14:39:50 <GyrosGeier> it is Friday 10 PM and I'm still at work
14:41:07 <skinnyboy_> https://share.riseup.net/#5pTlVORP-IOyj8Ebh2JUIQ
14:41:09 <skinnyboy_> Thanks bro
14:41:25 <skinnyboy_> here is friday 21:41
14:58:01 <skinnyboy_> Can i delete the efi partition on windows 10 and create a new one on /boot/EFI but before copying all on that partition?
15:08:17 <bltshzzr> you might be able to, but windows probably keeps track of the partition of its boot files
15:08:25 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, it sounds risky. I would use the existing efi partition. UEFI implementations are all different (don't follow standards)
15:09:09 <skinnyboy_> But I'm lost, it's a lot of data and I have no knowledge about initrams, efi partitions etc...
15:09:09 <bltshzzr> i'd say you're better off just adding a /boot partition after shrinking the c:\ partition (grub or systemd-boot won't take up too much space on efi)
15:10:00 <skinnyboy_> I'm reading the arch wiki to see if I get something clear but I'm confused, I mean I know that the efi partition contains .img, which are programs, but if I create a /boot partition in linux without encrypting what do I use it for?
15:10:07 <fsmithred> I just arrived, so I guess I don't know the situation.
15:10:30 <fsmithred> the /boot partition is for kernel and initramfs
15:10:54 <skinnyboy_> how devuan install this ones?
15:11:03 <fsmithred> those are usually unencrypted. It's possible to include /boot in the encrypted root, but kind of involved.
15:11:40 <fsmithred> where is all the data you mentioned? In the windows partition?
15:12:33 <skinnyboy_> i just installed windows with the default partition layout, and now i want to install devuan dual booting in mode UEFI/GPT
15:13:04 <fsmithred> shrink the windows partition then boot devuan and install it.
15:13:11 <skinnyboy_> But i dont know how uefi catch grub and grub catch windows and devuan, cause i dont know nothing about grub and kernel
15:13:19 <skinnyboy_> ill try it
15:13:23 <bltshzzr> they can coexist skinnyboy, but he's worried the 100MB efi partition windows gave him will be too small
15:13:26 <fsmithred> are you using secure boot?
15:13:37 <fsmithred> 100mb for efi is enough
15:13:45 <fsmithred> I've made them as small as 64mb
15:14:05 <skinnyboy_> no i disabled secure boot hibernate and fastboot
15:14:18 <fsmithred> ok, good
15:14:22 <fsmithred> that simplifies it
15:14:32 <skinnyboy_> But im feeling stupid xD
15:14:42 <fsmithred> if you want it encrypted, you should make a separate /boot partition
15:14:44 <skinnyboy_> Cause is hard to me to understand low level things
15:14:47 <fsmithred> 500mb is plenty
15:15:02 <skinnyboy_> Ill study more linux and less programming on java
15:15:11 <skinnyboy_> GNU/Linux*
15:15:20 <fsmithred> there are installer guides with pictures. I'll get a link.
15:15:44 <skinnyboy_> fsmithred Thanks :)
15:16:32 <fsmithred> https://www.devuan.org/os/install
15:16:48 <fsmithred> the install guides for beowulf should work fine for chimaera, too.
15:17:40 <fsmithred> do a defrag before you shrink the windows partition.
15:20:23 <fsmithred> skinnyboy_, here's a good reference for uefi: https://rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/index.html
15:20:37 <skinnyboy_> Yes
15:20:40 <skinnyboy_> Ill have a dinner
15:21:02 <skinnyboy_> Im going to download a IRC client and im going to start reading more, and thank so much for all.
15:21:25 <skinnyboy_> I like so much this distro and is the thing i was looking for
16:16:21 <bltshzzr> anyone know if debootstrap works to install devuan from a live cd environment (probably chimaera)
16:16:46 <bltshzzr> or are there enough differences in the installer / from debian that it wouldn't be great
16:19:07 <n4dir> I do know that it works, but i forgot how. A quick web search gives results though. If you want someone to confirm those results, you will have to wait
16:19:40 <n4dir> if it was me i would trust the result from the forum.
16:23:25 <bb|hcb> https://gist.github.com/bbonev/a2737cdb96329edf3e444857920cb327
16:25:33 <fsmithred> bltshzzr, yes, you can debootstrap devuan from live media. The live isos both have debootstrap installed.
16:26:07 <fsmithred> but I think it's easier if you use devuan's debootstrap rather than debian's.
16:26:26 <fsmithred> not sure if debian forces you to install systemd. It probably does.
16:26:51 <n4dir> fsmithred: i think it was you who gave me the exact how to do it from debian, it wasn't hard or such.
16:27:12 <bltshzzr> thanks for the gist bb|hcb looks like if you use debians it might try and install systemd deps anyways
16:27:32 <fsmithred> refracta isos also have devuan debootstrap installed.
16:27:49 <bltshzzr> do yall think it'd be easier to switch to openrc after installation or can debootstrap choose a variant
16:28:28 <fsmithred> I think you get sysvinit with a debootstrap install. But maybe not.
16:29:07 <fsmithred> in the installer, it comes at the end, right before grub.
16:29:22 <bb|hcb> I had a problem booting Devuan and someone proposed this way. What I actually did was to install Debian and then converted it; debootstrap is cleaner, though
16:29:23 <fsmithred> either way, it's not difficult to switch later.
16:32:38 <bltshzzr> then i won't stress too much over it. it's not like i won't have setup to do afterwords anyways
16:37:58 <fsmithred> just check to see if it's installed when you chroot. If not, you get to tell it which init to install.
17:38:55 <harrydus-matrix> <fsmithred> "not sure if debian forces you to..." <- Yes, you can't prevent the installation of systemd (at least I don't know of an easy way). But you can still replace systemd with another init system, either at installation time or later: https://wiki.debian.org/Init
18:30:09 <rwp> harrydus-matrix, If installing a minimum system it is always possible, yes. But *MANY* packages in Debian are starting to hard require systemd. Those are the problem. libvirt for example.
18:30:49 <rwp> It all depends upon what you want to actually *do* with the system as to whether it is reasonable to use Debian without systemd or not.
18:48:58 <harrydus-matrix> rwp many of those packages which require systemd do also accept elogind as replacement. I was running Debian 11 on my notebook without systemd just a few days ago.
18:48:59 <harrydus-matrix> But you're right that keeping systemd out can become difficult eventually and it looks like the situation will get worse.
18:51:43 <golinux> This might be helpful to you: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt
2021-09-17
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