#devuan

20:06:32 <sadoon_albader[m> I don't suppose nm-applet getting deleted out of nowhere is normal behavior hmm

20:07:47 <sadoon_albader[m> The package that owns it was somehow removed from my system

20:09:00 <sadoon_albader[m> Could be I messed up autoremove

20:36:17 <gnarface> not sure but maybe it has been supplanted by nm-tray?

21:09:48 <fsmithred> nm-applet is in the network-manager-gnome package. nm-tray is for qt destkops.

21:42:19 <sadoon_albader[m> <fsmithred> "nm-applet is in the network-..." <- Yup, I just don't know how it suddenly got deleted

21:42:34 <jiefk> Also for Plasma, you can get plasma-nm

21:43:08 <fsmithred> did you upgrade to chimaera? It's not in that repo.

21:43:48 <fsmithred> would get removed either during the upgrade or later during an autoremove (or with aptitude install)

21:44:42 <fsmithred> sadoon_albader[m, if it's not showing up in the system tray, check Application Autostart in the desktop settings

21:46:12 <sadoon_albader[m> No I verified later that the package was not installed

21:46:21 <sadoon_albader[m> Even though it was in my tray for a few days

21:46:37 <sadoon_albader[m> So most likely I messed up an autoremove or something

21:54:06 <fsmithred> if you removed network-manager-gnome while it was running, the tray applet would stay there until you log out of the desktop. But it wouldn't actually work. If it came back after login/logout, then I don't know what happened.

21:54:44 <fsmithred> btw, I got ppc64el installed in a VM and booting. Thanks.

22:14:10 <sadoon_albader[m> <fsmithred> "if you removed network-manager-..." <- I wasn't using the machine enough to notice haha

22:14:59 <sadoon_albader[m> <fsmithred> "btw, I got ppc64el installed..." <- Glad I could help :D

22:15:35 <sadoon_albader[m> I'm currently looking into webkit and if we can make it any more usable since it doesn't support JIT JavaScript

01:11:47 <kee> Does anyone know how to find wpa_supplicant.conf errors?

01:12:00 <kee> wpa_cli reconfigure is just returning FAIL.

01:12:22 <kee> (I'm running Debian 11, not Devuan, but I was told you would know more about configuring networks without NetworkManager.)

01:13:09 <n4dir> what i said is that i for one expect more people here to know which files of wicd are important for wpa_ ; not more

01:13:38 <kee> Oh, then never mind; I've solved that part. :-)

01:17:48 <rwp> kee, I guess your problem is solved but... I would expect wpa_supplicant to log errors in /var/log/syslog and would look there for errors.

01:18:19 <rwp> And if not there then errors should go to stdout/stderr of the program. I do see there are -s -T options to control error logging locations.

01:19:50 <rwp> Also if you suspect errors in the wpa_supplicant.conf then if it were me I would create one off to the side with what I wanted and use it to compare.

01:20:11 <rwp> Since the wpa_passphrase program creates those files the output of that program would be correct by construction.

01:20:46 <rwp> wpa_passphrase "your_SSID" "your_key" > /tmp/wpa_supplicant.conf

01:21:03 <rwp> And then compare that with whatever you are suspecting has an error in it.

01:21:23 <rwp> And this also means one can do everything all in one line. For example:

01:21:24 <rwp> wpa_supplicant -D nl80211,wext -i wlan0 -c <(wpa_passphrase "your_SSID" "your_key")

01:23:41 <rwp> That's good for the command line. But if you are configuring an RPi or something to a local WiFi Access Point then I would use /etc/network/interfaces with a conf file.

01:23:47 <rwp> Such as something like this: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1212005

01:24:34 <kee> I think it's not even reading my config file because systemd is being mean, which is obviously off-topic for here.

01:25:32 <rwp> Look at the "ps -efHww" (or "ps auxww" BSD style) output, look for the wpa_supplicant process, look to see what args are given to it.

01:26:39 <rwp> Caution: Don't try pasting into the channel or the global IRC bot will kick you.

01:26:43 <rwp> For example my wicd system has this use: wpa_supplicant -B -i wlan0 -c /var/lib/wicd/configurations/000da3103f57 -Dwext

01:27:05 <rwp> Which tells me that wicd is creating a new conf file on the fly and pointing wpa_supplicant to it on the fly.

03:01:37 <Guest10> I was there some time before, asking for a help with the wireless interface randomly ceasing to work

03:02:51 <Guest10> I was asked to restart the login manager, to check if it helps

03:04:17 <Guest10> One user recommended to use 'service "name" restart'

03:05:31 <Guest10> So I did use "service slim restart", and it gave a black screen with only the terminal on it.

03:06:48 <Hydragyrum> restarting the login manager would kill your graphical session and subordinates -- possibly including the `service` command before it restarted slim

03:07:17 <Hydragyrum> login on the terminal and `service slim start` and it should get it back up

03:08:28 <fsmithred> service slim restart fails for me whenever I try it. Start and stop separately work correctly.

03:12:59 <Guest10> I used the same command again, as root from terminal, and it restarted the graphical session

03:14:54 <Guest10> Unlike after restarting pc completely.

03:20:29 <Hydragyrum> if you could pastebin the (last 20-100 lines at least) of the output of dmesg, that'd be helpful

03:22:00 <Hydragyrum> I've had similar issues with my bluetooth adapter, it went into an error state and the kernel couldn't reset it

03:24:49 <Guest10> I will restart and paste a dmesg output then.

03:26:16 <Hydragyrum> if you restart it won't be in whatever problem state it is now

03:27:00 <Hydragyrum> The dmesg output after a restart would still probably be useful, but the problem is getting it working again without a reboot

03:27:07 <Guest10> Then I will do dmesg, and save it output before it.

03:31:30 <rwp> Guest10, "slim" is a graphical login manager (along with lightdm, gdm, xdm). Restarting those kills the X session and your login back to the graphical login start screen.

03:32:29 <rwp> The "service" command is the normal way to run /etc/init.d/foo named service but with a clean "env -i" environment and "cd /" just like at boot time.

03:32:55 <rwp> But neither of those things would be anything I would expect would affect WiFi networking. Unrelated!

03:33:33 <Guest10> So why would I have to do this? I was told, it could help.

03:34:02 <rwp> I don't know why someone would suggest it. But IRC channels are like sitting in a coffee shop and talking to people who happen to be there.

03:34:18 <rwp> Over the course of a day many people will come and sit for a while. Then get up and leave. And all will have different ideas.

03:34:48 <rwp> WiFi problems are often brought up here. And they are difficult because there are many possible ways to use WiFi.

03:35:20 <rwp> We should write up some type of guide that walks through the many possibilities. That might help.

03:35:33 <sadoon_albader[m> rwp: That's the most accurate description I've heard

03:35:57 <rwp> But in the meantime we must ask, Are you using a connection manager? Which one? Or low level commands directly?

03:36:30 <fsmithred> how is the wifi connecting? wicd, network-manager, something else?

03:37:02 <rwp> Plus very unfortunately the "best" (IMNHO) connection manager wicd good in Beowulf is not available in Chimaera due to Python 2 going away. :-(

03:38:19 <rwp> fsmithred, :-) "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow." --Albert Einstein

03:39:40 <Guest10> Something is wrong with the package, I guess.

03:39:55 <rwp> Guest10, Which suite are you running? Beowulf? Or what?

03:40:27 <rwp> Fresh installation? Or upgrade from Beowulf?

03:41:16 <Guest10> I didn't read it fully untill now. Fresh installation, butif I remember well, it was in the Chimaera repo

03:42:11 <Guest10> Should I reboot and then send a dmesg output from before it?

03:44:31 <fsmithred> it does not use /etc/network/interfaces

03:44:46 <rwp> I personally with WiFi am only running up through Beowulf so am not experienced with chimaera for connman use with WiFi. Hoping others will help with those details.

03:45:00 <Guest10> Oh, so maybe I thought about something different, then

03:45:48 <rwp> fsmithred, Are you having keyboard problems today? Seems like messages are truncated short?

03:46:31 <fsmithred> Ceni if you want to run it; ceni to install it.

03:46:40 <rwp> Oh. Okay. Just outside my knowledge base and I am not familiar with it. :-/

03:47:08 <fsmithred> lightweight network manager. Configure Etc Network Interfaces

03:47:27 <rwp> Cool. I'll add that to my list to try after connman.

03:47:30 <fsmithred> don't think I've tried it with wireless

03:47:31 <Guest10> I have a mouse input problem too. Don't know if it could be related.

03:47:57 <Guest10> The left button randomly ceases to work for some time.

03:48:12 <rwp> Guest10, Mouse problem? Those are so mature that having a problem there makes me worry something really fundamental is broken.

03:48:32 <rwp> Guest10, ifup and ifdown are from the ifupdown package and continue to work. But are an advanced alternatives due to needing to edit files and run by the command line. Typically used in IoT devices like Raspbery Pis though.

03:49:14 <rwp> Guest10, wicd as far as I know is not working yet in chimaera due to the python 2 to python 3 thrash. fsmithred says we should not lose hope. But that would be for tomorrow and not today.

03:49:20 <fsmithred> Guest10, do you have a connman icon in the systsem tray? Two arrows in opposite directions

03:49:25 <rwp> Therefore connman is the usual recommendation on chimaera.

03:49:38 <Guest10> Yes. A mouse problem. Just with the left click though. I have a problem in one game with the mouse flickers, but it happened with just one program only, to me

03:50:23 <rwp> It's possible the button switch is failing. Try a different mouse.

03:51:14 <fsmithred> hold down right-click on the connman icon to see what's turned on or off, especially wifi. On is blue.

03:51:50 <fsmithred> hold down left-click should show you available wireless signals

03:52:17 <fsmithred> at least that's what mine is doing right now. I can't verify that the behavior is consistent. I'm still trying to figure it out.

03:52:38 <Guest10> fsmithred I don't have it by default, but it appears, after running it from the program list manually "connman settings"

03:52:59 <fsmithred> which parts of connman did you install?

03:53:34 <Guest10> Now that I have no connection, it looks like 2 pc screens, with an x in the down-right edge

03:54:27 <fsmithred> how did you isntall the system? Did you select a desktop from the installer?

03:55:12 <Guest10> rwp if I remember well it started to work again after some time or the restart, so I doubt if it is a mouse itself

03:55:32 <Guest10> It is quite new. Used maybe since a month

03:55:57 <fsmithred> make sure you don't have both connman and network-manager installed

03:58:30 <Guest10> I made sure I don't. I had an additional issue as those 2 mixed up somehow. I wrote about the file that was a link instead of a configuration file before

03:59:39 <Guest10> I fixed it. Purged the nm, then installed the connman using the synaptic package manager, while using ifup ifdown manually

04:00:01 <Guest10> Ifup ifdown set manually also failed from time to time

04:01:32 <Guest10> I installed the system using the installer one, not

04:02:35 <Guest10> Yes. I meant wireless interface only

04:04:42 <Guest10> I don't know what is it about the right-click context menu to connman system tray

04:05:16 <Guest10> After the right click it shows context menu with 3 options

04:06:03 <Guest10> "open app", "Wired"(grayed out), and "exit"

04:07:24 <Guest10> And in the settings I get only "wired" and "bluetooth" options when it fails like this

04:07:49 <Guest10> Normally there would be also a "Wi-Fi"

04:10:02 <rwp> It's very strange to hear that a mouse button sometimes works and sometimes fails to work.

04:10:35 <rwp> I have never used connman (not yet, it's on my list) so am not truly able to help with the connman wifi help. Sorry. :-(

04:11:26 <Guest10> It mostly works, and sometimes it temporarily stops, or is detected as it would be pushed down all that time

04:11:45 <Guest10> and after a while it is detected correctly again

04:11:56 <rwp> I am good for help with wpa_supplicant on the command line. And for help using ifupdown.

04:12:49 <Guest10> Oh, right. That connection manager I mentioned is the gui to wpa_supplicant

04:14:31 <Guest10> I rebooted. The "wireless" and "p2p" options reappeared inthe connman settings

04:15:45 <Guest10> Not again*. I just didn't have internet a moment before on pc

04:16:27 <Guest10> fsmithred would my dmesg output help?

04:20:06 <Guest11> https://f.perl.bot/p/1htaqs There. A full dmesg output from before the reboot.

04:24:53 <rwp> Guest11, Guest10, Looking at that output I see many things that cause me concern. But I don't know if any of them are truly "the problem".

04:25:02 <rwp> It looks like you increased the verbosity of the Linux kernel boot. Did you?

04:25:30 <rwp> There appears to be some USB problem there with the early part of that. But that may just be much more verbose than I am used to seeing.

04:26:02 <rwp> But then I see iwlwifi and I wonder if you have installed "firmware-iwlwifi" package to include the firmware blob for it?

04:26:33 <Guest11> rwp I don't remember about that with verbosity, but I suppose, I could have done it once before.

04:26:37 <rwp> And then I see call backtraces for reasons I know not but that looks abnormal compared to what I noramlly see.

04:27:24 <rwp> cat /proc/cmdline and what does it say?

04:27:52 <rwp> Good on the firmware-iwlwifi installation. That's good.

04:27:58 <UsL> to me it looks like missing firmware drivers. But, then I am not proficient with machine code errors and cpu calls/traces

04:28:38 <rwp> I am using the Intel WiFi on my laptop too and it has always worked very well for me.

04:29:13 <rwp> Something definitely seems broken as indicated by the call traces in that boot output paste.

04:29:57 <Guest11> rwp cat /proc/cmdline output: "BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.10.0-8-amd64 root=UUID=9e9faa54-d8bb-4dc4-bb27-691d2bb0d072 ro quiet

04:31:37 <rwp> That is okay. And it says "quiet" so there is no flag for extra verbosity. Meaning all of those dumps in the dmesg look like problems to me.

04:32:18 <rwp> So the Linux kernel command line is okay. But the output seems to indicate some type of problem.

04:32:52 <fsmithred> iwlwifi can't start the interface? I just looked quickly. Did it ever start?

04:34:19 <Guest11> I think so. The wlan interface works, until some moment, when it breaks.

04:34:47 <UsL> Guest11: you might want to check bios/efi settings. Sometimes I've seen wifi turned off there casue a lot of problems. But, not sure if that would make all those error messages but rather say: "turned off"

04:35:26 <rwp> At this point I might suggest booting a live-cd boot image and running it as a test installation. See if it is happy that way or not.

04:36:17 <Guest11> UsL I don't recall wifi turned off in the efi. I don't think I ever turned off it here, and it seems to me, that if it would be turned off in the efi, then it shouldn't work at all. Should it?

04:37:32 <UsL> it probably shouldn't spit out all those errors, no. Seems counterintuitive.

04:37:47 <Guest11> It works normally(or at least it seems like it) since the start. Then it breaks randomly at some point. It can work many hours just fine, and it also happens to break shortly after the start, sometimes.

04:38:26 <Guest11> rwp I doubt it, as I had WiFi problems on the other instalations too.

04:38:47 <UsL> maybe hardware error then.. Some glitch of sorts. I'd try rwp's suggestion and run a live ido for a while and look for errors there

04:39:33 <UsL> okay, if you already tried other live isos then.. hardware error seems more likely..

04:39:49 <Guest11> So to run a live-usb, and dmesg here?

04:41:44 <UsL> doesn't hurt to try.. Have you searched for some of the error codes? I'd use google for that since they're actually superior for those searches.

04:44:10 <Guest11> rwp I meant, I have an usb with "installer-iso", which I used to install the system. Should I run dmesg here, and provide its output?

04:47:01 <fsmithred> might be better with a live iso. The desktop-live will have the right firmware installed

04:54:00 <Guest11> Ok. So I will make a live-iso, and run dmesg on it later.

04:54:35 <fsmithred> network-manager is installed, so it should be easy to connect. In theory.

06:07:10 <systemdlete> please DONT tell me graylog is not available on devuan due to... u-know-what

06:12:50 <Hydragyrum> I see the same graylog packages in devuan as in debian stable

06:14:05 <systemdlete> It may be a bit high-end for my needs, but I had problems trying to use syslog-ng

06:19:00 <systemdlete> Hydragyrum: Maybe it is packaged with a different name?

06:19:30 <Hydragyrum> systemdlete, perhaps, I didn't see a graylog-server package in debian stable though

06:20:09 <systemdlete> It's possible. While it is "open source," I think the graylog software is commercial.

06:20:39 <Hydragyrum> it looks like their actual packages are only on their own repo

06:20:46 <systemdlete> syslog-ng looked promising, but the scripting language seemed to have problems. idr now though

06:21:04 <Hydragyrum> https://packages.graylog2.org/debian/pool/stable/4.1/g

06:21:29 <systemdlete> https://docs.graylog.org/en/4.1/pages/installation/os/debian.html about 1/2-way down the page

06:21:47 <systemdlete> there is a "hint" implying that graylog-server is in the debian repo. Go figure

06:22:11 <systemdlete> That's why I thought maybe it would be available in devuan also.

06:25:08 <systemdlete> Again, probably way more than I really need. I'm just looking for a solid centralized logging tool that can send alerts. syslog-ng can do that, but my results were not reliable. Sometimes emails or texts did not make it to my phone or email account.

06:26:02 <systemdlete> Text messages were getting garbled for some reason. And emails often did not arrive for a long time if at all. So it was pointless.

06:26:14 <systemdlete> Maybe they have updated the software and I can try it again now.