08:19:11 <mns`> by this time, i hope the devuan domain have been pointed to another server ...
08:19:30 <KatolaZ> mns`: have a look at /.
08:19:48 <KatolaZ> and at the calendar
08:22:11 <mns`> Is it a april fools joke?
08:23:20 <KatolaZ> mns`: date -d @1554080659
08:23:32 <mns`> because I'm not laughing
08:23:35 <mns`> i saw that
08:25:15 <opal> glad to see devuan has switched to gopher Kappa
08:31:35 <golinux> mns`: I'm not laughing either
08:38:13 <bluemarlin> you sure those two primes aren't a hint - like you should construct private key from them and access the servers?
08:39:03 <KatolaZ> bluemarlin: date -d @1554080659
08:50:49 <se7en> So is this or is this not a joke by devuan
08:50:57 <se7en> Or is it by a malicious hacker for april fools day
08:51:34 <se7en> KatolaZ:
08:51:40 <KatolaZ> se7en: wazzup?
08:51:55 <se7en> is this a joke by Devuan or is it by a malicious actor for april fools day
08:52:02 <se7en> I know of hacking groups hacking websites for april fools day
08:52:02 <KatolaZ> $ date -d @1554080659
08:52:15 <se7en> Yeah, I know
08:52:19 <KatolaZ> se7en: do you have any contact with green hat hackers?
08:52:28 <se7en> I have never heard the term befoee
08:52:44 <se7en> I am just unsure if this is a joke by Devuan or if it is by another party
08:52:52 <KatolaZ> $ date -d @1554080659
08:52:52 <bluemarlin> i would expect them to operate from underground irish pub though
08:53:03 <se7en> KatolaZ: yeah I know
08:53:09 <se7en> [17:51 se7en@lappy ~] > date -d @1554080659
08:53:11 <se7en> Sun Mar 31 18:04:19 PDT 2019
08:53:13 <se7en> April Fools Day
08:53:20 <se7en> But is it by you
08:53:22 <KatolaZ> bluemarlin: you never know, it could be from a lagune
08:53:22 <mns`> by now, i guess its a 'inside job' joke
08:53:23 <se7en> or is it by a hacker
08:53:42 <KatolaZ> se7en: the pwned page says "Green Hat Hackers"
08:54:02 <KatolaZ> so it must be form some hacker of sort
08:57:33 <KatolaZ> bluemarlin: if anybody asks, just tell them `date -d @1554080659`
09:00:15 <se7en> KatolaZ: you need to add a -u to that
09:00:40 <KatolaZ> se7en: I just need a good sleep ;P
09:02:48 <Tazy> good jolly, even set up a gopher server.
09:04:01 <bluemarlin> KatolaZ: enjoy sleep, you got a twisted sense of humor :)
09:08:25 <roo^y> sorry to spam, but it was working fine before i ruined it with -u (or where exactly does the -u go)
09:08:45 <roo^y> date -d @7779847
09:08:45 <roo^y> Wed Apr 1 11:04:07 AEST 1970
09:08:45 <roo^y> date -d -u @7779847
09:08:45 <roo^y> date: the argument ‘@7779847’ lacks a leading '+';
09:08:45 <roo^y> when using an option to specify date(s), any non-option
09:08:46 <roo^y> argument must be a format string beginning with '+'
09:08:46 <roo^y> Try 'date --help' for more information.
09:09:23 <Tazy> too bad only the main site is accessible ;)
09:09:52 <roo^y> i got a flooding warning, so i'm not sure if my 7 lines posted. i'll leave it at that
09:12:44 <redrick> roo^y: Your seven lines of wisdom were transmitted.
09:15:39 <redrick> -u is for UTC. (I for one welcome our Greenwich overlords.)
09:16:13 <redrick> Not that there's anything wrong with AEST.
09:17:31 <redrick> Though in many ways, truth is longitude-dependent, you may perceive.
09:18:57 <Jjp137> roo^y, try: date -ud @7779847
09:19:57 <redrick> I mean, if I observed AEST, at teatime it'd be the previous night, and that would never do.
09:20:05 <roo^y> ok. we go back to AEST in a week. currently at the end of AEDT, after summer
09:20:44 <roo^y> date -ud @7779847
09:20:44 <roo^y> Wed Apr 1 01:04:07 UTC 1970
09:20:58 <roo^y> this works!
09:21:34 <redrick> Welcome to Greenwich. There's a pedestrian tunnel to the Docklands for your convenience.
09:21:54 <roo^y> niiiiiiiice
09:22:08 <redrick> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_foot_tunnel
09:23:48 <redrick> roo^y: The AEST -> AEDT changeover date was presumbly earlier in 1970, FWIW. Date calculations are a special kind of hell for coders.
09:25:27 <roo^y> i wrote these 6 lines to answer repeated questions
09:25:43 <roo^y> It was worked out as typing the following into the terminal, populates april fools days
09:25:43 <roo^y> date -ud @1554080659
09:25:43 <roo^y> Mon Apr 1 12:04:19 UTC 2019
09:25:55 <roo^y> date -ud @7779847
09:25:55 <roo^y> Wed Apr 1 11:04:07 UTC 1970
09:25:55 <roo^y> *note: the 4mins can represent Apr, & 19secs represent year. 70secs can't be populated, so 7secs is the next best thing
09:25:57 <redrick> Et voila.
09:26:16 <watchcat> .oO(green wich... green hat... another clue...)
09:26:52 <redrick> Εύρηκα! So to speak.
09:27:45 <redrick> I was hoping it'd be questions like 'What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?'
09:30:02 <watchcat> i propose that hencforth, the gopher should be the official devuan mascot.
09:30:38 <redrick> And Minnesota the official Devuan Place to Not Go on Holiday.
09:31:26 <redrick> (The protocol was named for the U. of Minnesota's mascot, in case the joke was too obscure.)
09:32:20 <Dsbeerf> so those iso can be compromised ?
09:34:23 <roo^y> Dsbeerf: the ISOs are safe (unlike the incident that happened to linux mint several yrs ago
09:34:58 <Dsbeerf> roo^y, ok that what i was refering to
09:35:04 <redrick> Dsbeerf: It's worth learning how to check gpg signatures on ISO checksums, then you wouldn't need to ask.
09:35:14 <mns`> golinux: :|
09:35:21 <watchcat> http://www.bakingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/caddyshack-gopher.jpg
09:35:55 <Dsbeerf> redrick, i admit
09:35:55 <redrick> https://pastebin.com/1dX5XG7W
09:36:08 <redrick> (URL illustrating how.)
09:36:24 <Dsbeerf> redrick, thanks
09:36:31 <redrick> Seriously, worth picking up the knack.
09:38:12 <redrick> The one bit of humbug in that transcript is where I skip over how I found the signing key.
09:46:07 <redrick> I Web-searched around and found references to that key, chose to believe conditionally that the mentions weren't fraudulent, and fetched it from a keyserver. More ideally, one would be able to verifying key authenticity using gpg web of trust, but I evidently need to attend more keysignings for that.
09:47:13 <redrick> Back in the 1990s, when the Linux community was small, we used to joke about keysignings letting us play 'Six degrees of Ted T'so.'
09:48:40 <redrick> Anyway, even if signing key verification's a weak point, it's IMO always worth trying to vet ISO checksums.
10:14:15 <Dsbeerf> yeah well is more that nothing
10:21:11 <redrick> Well, it'd require a heck of a plan to get away with having a bogus key in the public keyservers for e-mail address email@example.com, especially for significantly long.
10:24:56 <redrick> Huh, just checked my verification transcript, and saw that the SHA256SUM file was signed with KatolaZ's key, not the Primary Devuan signing key.
10:25:57 <redrick> But, anyway, as you say, a lot better than nothing.
10:35:49 <Ryushin> Are the Devuan servers that got hacked VMs or physical hardware?
10:38:12 <benjikun> is this a meme
10:39:13 <furrywolf> is your question nonsensical?
10:40:02 <benjikun> seems like a brash april fools joke
10:40:33 <xrogaan> It is.
10:40:47 <benjikun> alright, thanks lol
10:41:08 <Leander> this 1st april thing has to die
10:41:15 <Ryushin> From the Devuan team or the hacker group? Not so sure about it being from the Devuan team.
10:41:36 <xrogaan> At least they're not going political: https://www.tuxfamily.org/en/news/2019040100
10:41:57 <xrogaan> Ryushin: there is no green hat.
10:43:14 <opal> thanks for trolling me
10:43:29 <opal> im gullible v.v
10:43:37 <Ryushin> Well, reading on #devuan-dev, they don't seem to be impressed.
10:43:42 <benjikun> time to actually start using gopher again :^)
10:44:00 <Ryushin> Lets go back to 300 baud BBS.
10:44:04 <opal> gopher doesnt strike me as well-engineered; imo we just need a slimmed-down http
10:46:20 <plasma41> opal: like HTTP/0.9?
10:47:38 <opal> not sure. i definitely think http/2 and beyond are too geared toward webapps, hacks upon hacks, to be any good
10:48:03 <opal> a lot of http/1.1+ headers for security can probably be easier managed with saner browser defaults, idk
10:48:22 <furrywolf> I've been really tempted to write a news article about Trump and Pelosi's surprise marriage announcement for tomorrow.
10:48:38 <opal> i think content security policies are their own brand of complexity that could cause as many issues as the things theyre trying to prevent
10:49:06 <opal> i think anyone would agree that information such as useragent and referer are entirely arbitrary to keep in the protocol
10:49:06 <plasma41> I like that both Gopher and HTTP/0.9 are stateless protocols. No cookies
10:49:22 <opal> cookies/auth is a good point
10:49:33 <opal> do you think all of http should be authless and stateless
10:49:56 <opal> im trying to move my stateful stuff off of the web browser. i use mail in its own client, irc obviously, xmpp
10:50:05 <plasma41> auth: yes. all other forms of state: no
12:55:03 <Beerbaron23> The website is now a GopherH0le!!
14:25:26 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.devuan.org/pwned.html yeah! ;-P
14:38:05 <guido_g> glad you mentioned it, noone else did in the last 24h
14:46:08 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed, I'm really fast today ;:-)
15:07:54 <KatolaZ> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
15:12:02 <watchcat> yay. it just seemed to be too funny and benign to be real. :)
15:26:14 <ralpheeee> lost me as an end user ...good luck !
15:27:08 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
15:27:19 <DocScrutinizer05> @ ralpheeeeee
15:28:32 <DocScrutinizer05> KatolaZ: excellently pitched and designed. And good "PR noise"
15:29:36 <MinceR> well played
15:29:41 <KatolaZ> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
15:33:04 <DocScrutinizer05> KatolaZ: one thing that gave it away for me (after I bothered to really investigate) was the rewrite, no hacker would go to such length to establish a defacing
15:43:33 <detha> All I can say is 'not funny'
15:56:28 <watchcat> hey but can we really adopt the caddyshack gopher as devuan mascot now?
15:57:41 <guido_g> stupidity at it's best
15:59:04 <GoatAvenger> is/was the Devuan crack legitimate?
15:59:12 <GoatAvenger> Or was/is it an april fools joke?
16:01:10 <watchcat> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
16:06:05 <GoatAvenger> April fooolsss...
16:06:11 <GoatAvenger> :)
16:07:13 <ruenoak> I do like the ascii art
16:12:01 <watchcat> somebody needs to make ascii art of a gopher wearing a green hat.
16:19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> it should wear a red hat, just because...
16:26:31 <ruenoak> Does anyone if the Devuan Conference will be recorded at all? I would love to go but sadly I live at the bottom of the globe and it's a bit far.
16:35:26 <KatolaZ> ruenoak: it will be streamed and recorded
16:39:31 <ruenoak> Fantastic!
16:58:09 <sauvin> Can anybody comment on https://www.devuan.org? Has it really been pwned?
17:00:21 <Unit193> sauvin: You might want to look at the date, https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
18:05:30 <mss> is the current state of the devuan.org a joke or did the site really get pwned?
18:05:49 <KatolaZ> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
18:25:30 <_abc_> So, is everything back to non green hat normal?
18:28:40 <KatolaZ> _abc_: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
18:30:25 <DocScrutinizer05> >> It all works, but it limits Linux processes to a mere 512GB of virtual address space. Such limits are irksome to the kernel developers when the hardware can do more, and, besides, somebody is likely to release a web browser or office suite which runs into that limit in the near future.<<
18:31:03 <DocScrutinizer05> https://lwn.net/Articles/106177/ Posted Oct 14, 2004
18:40:48 <djph> wait, what
18:41:33 <djph> 512GB (Virtual) Address Space is a limit ?
18:41:40 <_abc_> KatolaZ: poisonne` en Avril...
18:44:05 <DocScrutinizer05> stackoverflow.com makes me puke. I hope this is an april's fool
18:44:59 <DocScrutinizer05> mousepointer throwing candy for sure is
18:50:46 <rafalcpp> it seriously lacks animated background
18:52:45 <_abc_> Everyone pulled out all stops for April's fool day. Why? Halloween was meh.
19:48:04 <Ulrar> Congrats on the new site, I like it
19:48:33 <Ulrar> I wonder how many people will get it
20:42:56 <premoboss> hello, i have problem with date. i am located in italy, now it is 14:39 but the clock report +2 hours, I try to select the location with tzselect, but no way. also try to use command "date" to set the clock, but no way. what am i doing wrong?
20:45:38 <rrq> I always have to go to "man tzselect" to remember it, you should do: dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
20:46:11 <nailyk> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190331.191104.169aaf9a.en.html is that true ?
20:46:53 <buZz> nailyk: read -all- the emails
20:47:36 <buZz> specifically ; https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html
20:47:44 <nailyk> so it was a time stamp problem :p
20:47:52 <premoboss> rrq, i done, but:
20:47:59 <buZz> nailyk: just read the link
20:48:02 <premoboss> Current default time zone: 'Europe/Rome'
20:48:09 <premoboss> Local time is now: Mon Apr 1 16:44:55 CEST 2019.
20:48:16 <premoboss> Universal Time is now: Mon Apr 1 14:44:55 UTC 2019.
20:48:29 <premoboss> so, the time is still +2 hours.
20:48:34 <nailyk> thks buZz ;)
20:48:43 <rrq> premoboss: yes, CEST is +2 right now .. according to my tzdata as well
20:48:57 <buZz> premoboss: apt install ntpdate; ntpdate ntp.xs4all.nl
20:48:58 <buZz> or something
20:49:01 <premoboss> ok, but now, in itali, is 14:46
20:49:11 <premoboss> not 16:46
20:49:40 <premoboss> so, or italy dont follow CEST time rule ot tzdata os wrong about italy.
20:49:58 <premoboss> buzz i do.
20:50:08 <buZz> premoboss: you have your system on UTC, and in the wrong time
20:50:23 <buZz> you configured the UTC of your system to the correct time in italy
20:50:30 <premoboss> buZz, how to set my tine the right one?
20:50:45 <buZz> ntpdate with correct TZ selected should already fix it
20:51:19 <premoboss> BANG! gone ok. thanks.
20:52:11 <premoboss> on otyer side, to be 1 hour ahead gave me always on time at meetings:)))
21:15:45 <Y_Plentyn> hm. is it still possible to register for the devuan conference? and how?
21:16:08 <Jookia> Who did the april fool's joke?
21:18:28 <buZz> Jookia: someone with bad taste
21:19:56 <Jookia> https://devuan.org/os/team/ says a 4/5 consensus is required for major decisions
21:20:31 <Evilham> not the case I'm afraid
21:21:09 <Jookia> so katolaz did this on their own?
21:21:36 <tuxd3v> I am a bit sad, it went so far..
21:22:40 <tuxd3v> At least they could have done something like
21:22:54 <tuxd3v> StackOverFlow did
21:22:55 <tuxd3v> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3817750/how-to-convert-date-to-unix-timestamp-in-shell-script-on-macos
21:23:13 <Evilham> Jookia: I didn't say that
21:23:42 <Jookia> Evilham: no, i'm just assuming based on the circumstances
21:23:59 <Jookia> will we ever know who did it
21:24:14 <buZz> well, KatolaZ was first to deny it was a april fools
21:24:21 <buZz> and the only one i've seen defending it
21:25:41 <Jookia> but then they also said it was an april fools joke
21:25:49 <Jookia> in the email
21:26:15 <KatolaZ> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.132526.1a220dc3.en.html
21:27:25 <buZz> KatolaZ: was there really 4/5 concensus for this joke?
21:27:33 <buZz> consensus*
21:28:27 <buZz> already numerous ppl that moved away from devuan over it :)
21:29:06 <KatolaZ> wow, so faithful devuan users we have...
21:29:23 <gnarface> i mean gopher, really?
21:29:23 <KatolaZ> anyway, it's all explained in the email
21:29:26 <KatolaZ> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.132526.1a220dc3.en.html
21:29:39 <buZz> gnarface: well, ppl that administrate many servers dont usually kid around with such security issues
21:29:59 <Jookia> gnarface: the devuan infrastructure admins were saying they were hacked and denying it was an april fools joke
21:30:18 <gnarface> well, i'm not one of them, but i did say that might not be taken well
21:30:20 <buZz> admin* , i havent seen anyone 'back' the joke at all, beside KatolaZ
21:30:27 <Jookia> i don't think it's fair to say they're dangerously irrational for believing it
21:30:36 <gnarface> i was silent about it when i should not have been
21:30:50 <buZz> even 1 hour of actually hacked could mean millions of backdoored systems
21:31:28 <Jookia> katolaz apologized and that's about all that can be done
21:31:52 <Jookia> but its just kinda weird to me that one person can make such huge modifications to a trusted server like that
21:31:52 <gnarface> real villains would definitely have put tracking scripts on that page
21:32:14 <desperek> KatolaZ, aaaaaa!
21:32:35 <buZz> its just beyond bad taste, imho
21:32:45 <Jookia> like if someone stole katolaz's ssh keys could they actually hack the site
21:32:56 <desperek> you also need a password for ssh Jookia
21:33:02 <Jookia> ssh session then
21:33:22 <desperek> i dont think you can stole ssh session
21:33:33 <Jookia> it's a little bit scary to think that there's not a barrier with oversight for the entire website
21:33:45 <Jookia> not just the contents but also the infrastructure itself
21:34:45 <Jookia> usually with tech projects you see websites in github with merge requests handling changes
21:34:46 <buZz> well, infrastructure wasnt affected, all pkg mirrors etc were still up
21:35:17 <Jookia> i guess it is here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www
21:35:33 <Jookia> but they changed the website without going through that review? idk
21:39:40 <Jookia> also does devuan use debian's repos with its own packages on top? or its own entire mirrors
21:40:34 <Evilham> former
21:41:23 <debdog> Y_Plentyn: do not know myslef but all you need to know should be in this thread: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/thread/20181126.195746.a575f370.en.html
21:41:58 <KatolaZ> debdog: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.132526.1a220dc3.en.html
21:42:54 <debdog> KatolaZ: sorry, I do not understand?
21:43:38 <gnarface> Jookia: mostly redirects from debian mirrors (because most packages so far are not changed)
21:44:39 <Jookia> Is there a list of changed packages?
21:45:26 <gnarface> uh.. yea somewhere...
21:45:37 <debdog> Jookia: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt
21:45:53 <gnarface> no that's the banned packages
21:46:23 <debdog> oh, assumed they were basically the same
21:46:39 <gnarface> no those are ones that need to be forked still to just work
21:46:48 <gnarface> so they're currently excluded
21:47:40 <gnarface> there is somewhere in the gitlab you should be able to get the list, but also if you just search for "devuan" in pkginfo.devuan.org, all the forked packages have devuan* in the version string
21:50:27 <gnarface> KatolaZ: well, you made the front page on Slashdot, so mission accomplished, i guess
21:54:47 <buZz> could have done that with actual news
21:54:59 <buZz> like 'devuan moving to gopher servers'
21:55:10 <buZz> instead of causing panic for the yolo
21:55:35 <gnarface> i think this is KatolaZ's way of protesting being left in charge of the web servers during the conference
21:56:05 <buZz> to ignore the 4/5 consensus needed for webpage changes?
21:58:28 <_abc_> Do you see polkitd taking load up to 0.6-0.7 for no reason?
21:58:53 * gnarface isn't using it
21:58:57 <buZz> that package isnt in devuan
21:59:24 <_abc_> Ahh. systemd fun, without systemd this time.
21:59:39 <_abc_> The package is in wheezy. I am trying to port linuxcnc user land to devuan ascii.
21:59:44 <buZz> you dont need policykit
21:59:53 <_abc_> No success so far, missing packages which do not exist in devuan repos?
22:00:03 <_abc_> Will be back about this.
22:00:12 <_abc_> [not polkitd]
22:00:14 <gnarface> stuff has been renamed since wheezy
22:02:24 <_abc_> Made a stick with refracta2usb testing it now with persistence, using live linuxcnc wheezy 2.7 iso as source
22:20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.cons.org/cracauer/sigint.html TIL, quite interesting
22:21:59 <Y_Plentyn> debdog: thank you
22:23:12 <buZz> i wonder when Klipper will get 'random ass CNC' support
22:23:21 <buZz> it makes a lot more sense to me than LinuxCNC
22:23:49 <Y_Plentyn> ... but that not contain recent information - for example if and how it is possible after early registration
22:23:59 <Y_Plentyn> ... to register
22:32:34 <debdog> Y_Plentyn: maybe there: https://events.eventzilla.net/e/welcome-to-the-first-devuan-conference-d1conf-2019-2138704309 or contact firstname.lastname@example.org
22:32:58 <Y_Plentyn> debdog: i know the first...
22:35:25 <Y_Plentyn> and justr mailed the second ;)
22:37:38 <zeph1ro> @KatolaZ, zuzurellone... got the time to tag and release d1h? i need the fix u made 7mo ago... ;)
22:40:04 <unixman> KatolaZ, I thought the joke was funny. I presumed it was a joke from the start. I love the fact that gopher actually works. :D
22:40:29 <desperek> yea leave it like thatr
22:40:33 <Y_Plentyn> I liked the joke, too, and I like gopher ;)
22:41:20 * unixman had to install a gopher client to check and was pleasantly surprised :)
22:49:11 <unixman> Just finished reading scrollback. Some folk need to get a sense of humor. Good grief. :P
23:02:23 <detha> Other folks haven't spent 3 months getting use of devuan approved by corporate security in a windows-centric company. Know what the knee-jerk reaction of ITSec types to this sort of stunt is? :P
23:11:12 <silverwillow> meh. IPSec peeps have no sense of humour. They don't count :P
23:11:43 <buZz> detha: yeah i've seen many ppl not respond nicely
23:11:58 <buZz> way more then expected by the 'prankster' i bet
23:12:46 <detha> silverwillow: count or not, they control their firewalls. And if they say 'no', you either comply or can the project.
23:20:37 <_abc_> <almost systemd bashing>while looking for solutions for my current project, I found two nice links http://www.softpanorama.org/Commercial_linuxes/RHEL/index.shtml https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2hfvm0/so_after_4_hours_of_debugging_systemd_and/
23:21:55 <_abc_> detha: itsec suits get alarmed by an amber light on a junos box (local management ethernet down usually), jokes like the website put them into hyperventilation state, need ER.
23:24:02 <premoboss> KatolaZ, i read you did a minimal devuan CLI version. how to get it?
23:24:54 <KatolaZ> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/minimal-live/ <- premoboss
23:25:17 <premoboss> KatolaZ, thanks.
23:25:57 <KatolaZ> premoboss: yw
23:40:49 <furrywolf> I too was impressed that at least www. had working gopher. checked last night. :)
23:41:22 <m68000> the port 70 revolution
23:47:05 <_abc_> 368MB for a cli only minimal edition is huuge :) But it's not your fault. Thanks for that KatolaZ.
23:52:01 <KatolaZ> _abc_: it's not "just a minimal image"
23:52:08 <KatolaZ> it has a lot of stuff in there
23:52:29 <KatolaZ> but still boots in a quite small footprint
23:52:37 <KatolaZ> and gives you a fully functional system :)
23:53:00 <KatolaZ> I agree it's not as minimal as "tomsrtbt" though ;)
23:57:57 <gnarface> it's as small as you can reasonably expect a debian-compatible derivative to get though
23:58:21 <KatolaZ> well, it could be really made slimmer, by removing some stuff
23:58:37 <KatolaZ> anyway, it should be pretty straightfoward to customise it using live-sdk
23:59:07 <KatolaZ> _abc_: shout if you need help with that
23:59:11 <xrogaan> Apparently IBM is to start a non-free version of RHEL. They had enough of not being able to properly use xkbcomp with wayland.
---------- 2019-04-01 ----------
00:05:40 <unixman> IIRC there is already a "non-free" version of RHEL. Try getting patches for an unregistered, or unpaid, or expired, RHEL subscription.
00:05:59 <furrywolf> I want un-RH linux.
00:07:21 <buZz> we all do
00:26:43 <xrogaan> https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2019/04/01/back-to-how-it-should-be/
00:31:39 <buZz> xrogaan: weird
00:31:51 <buZz> there was no support for 'desktop notifications' from webpages in the 90s
00:32:03 <buZz> is the joke that the cartoonist wasnt on internet in the 90s? :P
00:32:14 <buZz> oh, -remove- , nmind
00:33:23 <DocScrutinizer05> xrogaan: depressingly true
00:33:42 <buZz> missed <marquee> though
02:40:43 <xrogaan> anyhow, after today, I realize that the best way for a cracker to fuck around is to take over during the 1st of April.
03:03:17 <_abc_> re: RH slime: I posted a link above some time ago about this. [relevant]
03:03:51 <_abc_> http://www.softpanorama.org/Commercial_linuxes/RHEL/index.shtml repost
03:11:08 <xrogaan> _abc_: I have no idea about how to read that website
03:16:17 <_abc_> scroll down until your eyes no longer hurt.
03:16:30 <_abc_> At "Abstract"
03:37:51 <armin> https://www.devuan.org/pwned.html ;)
05:21:00 <_abc_> With persistence on live images: is persistence-label= only supported in later (than wheezy level) distributions? It seems to not be treated in /bin/live-persistence at all.
05:21:14 <_abc_> I wasted half a day trying to make it work
05:22:27 <_abc_> Normally if "persistence" is on the kernel cli then something in the init scripts should call /bin/live-persistence, no?
06:07:03 <fsmithred> _abc_, persistence on the boot command alone looks for a volume with lable 'persistence'
06:07:36 <fsmithred> for other label, you need 'persistence persistence-label=some-name'
06:07:42 <fsmithred> bbiab
06:13:39 <_abc_> fsmithred: I tried both, this is for wheezy livecnc 2.7 iso which I wedged into a r2u made usb stick
06:14:13 <_abc_> fsmithred: the persistence things are completely ignored when booting into that using the system's defaults. I need to figure out how to make it not do that.
06:18:14 <_abc_> What exactly handles the persistence volume search call? Calling /bin/live-persistence from boot? Is that in initrd?
06:20:49 <_abc_> "Forgetting something might take more effort than trying to remember it, suggests a recent study from The University of Texas at Austin in the U.S.
06:20:57 <_abc_> " - oh I must be put together backwards, then.
06:28:27 <ServiceRobot> good evening folks
06:28:29 <buZz> i like that the only person responsible for the bad joke, even -called- it a bad joke when he made it initially
06:28:46 <buZz> yet didnt think of fixing it until much later :P
06:28:50 <ServiceRobot> I was just going to say I got a fistful of dng emails today...
06:29:08 <ServiceRobot> quickly realized what had happend when visiting /r/linux
06:29:13 <buZz> ServiceRobot: someone forgot to learn something when his parents read him 'boy who cried wolf' as a kid
06:29:25 <ServiceRobot> I don't know wether to call this a mess, or an overreaction
06:29:45 <buZz> the introduction of gopher servers is cool
06:29:57 <ServiceRobot> it doesn't change anything for me personally. I will still use devuan on my personal home server
06:30:03 <buZz> the 'oh noes we got hacked, all your installs might be at risk globally' was horrible
06:30:06 <ServiceRobot> it's been working great for me so far
06:30:19 <ServiceRobot> but it was just the website, not the repos?
06:30:28 <buZz> ServiceRobot: there wasnt any hack
06:30:34 <ServiceRobot> I know
06:30:38 <buZz> it was just 1 admin that was trying to be funny
06:30:55 <ServiceRobot> but some people reinstalled their entire systems because they thought it was real
06:31:04 <buZz> of course they did, thats normal recourse
06:31:14 <buZz> now what if you administrate 100s of devuan servers
06:31:19 <ServiceRobot> I'm no sysadmin so I don't really have an opinion
06:31:30 <buZz> then it might not be so 'funny' to hear 'devuan is hacked' on 31th of march
06:31:42 <ServiceRobot> do you think this will harm devuan in the long run? I still want to support this project
06:31:51 <buZz> i think it already did
06:32:04 <buZz> but many will stay regardless, of course
06:32:18 <ServiceRobot> what, do you think we should abandon it because of the joke?
06:32:22 <buZz> if we were '100' serious before, in eyes of onlookers
06:32:29 <buZz> we will now maybe be '75' serious
06:32:33 <buZz> if you can even quantify it
06:32:57 <buZz> which might be way easier on the minds of said admin(s) , but not really in benefit of the project
06:33:04 <ServiceRobot> I don't know. seems people overreacted
06:33:11 <buZz> otoh, it really got the devuan name mentioned all over the place
06:33:33 <watchcat> imo it'll improve devuan by getting rid of a few humorless people
06:33:35 <buZz> ServiceRobot: it could have been just as funny to just go 'all our webpages are now gopher only, go to xxxx'
06:33:56 <buZz> and then after april 1st go 'haha fooled you, here's the website back, but now we also have gopher'
06:34:04 <buZz> with zero harm to onlook in seriousness
06:34:14 <ServiceRobot> well the admin responsible for it realized his lack of judgement. can't we just move on?
06:34:21 <buZz> watchcat: tbh, you cant, unless you want to avoid any big users
06:34:44 <buZz> ServiceRobot: its not so much about the prank itself, its about a onlook
06:34:57 <buZz> how will ppl respond when devuan now -actually- get hacked?
06:35:05 <buZz> 'haha just dumbass admin making jokes again'
06:35:20 <buZz> as i said : 00:29:12 < buZz> ServiceRobot: someone forgot to learn something when his parents read him 'boy who cried wolf' as a kid
06:35:31 <watchcat> buZz: ?
06:35:54 <buZz> you guys are bad at aesop's fables :P
06:35:58 <buZz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
06:35:58 <ServiceRobot> I dunno. it seems like an overreaction to me
06:36:10 <buZz> > The Boy Who Cried Wolf is one of Aesop's Fables, numbered 210 in the Perry Index. From it is derived the English idiom "to cry wolf", defined as "to give a false alarm" in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable and glossed by the Oxford English Dictionary as meaning to make false claims, with the result that subsequent true claims are disbelieved.
06:36:22 <ServiceRobot> buzz, we're not retarded. we know what that story is
06:36:47 <buZz> so you can see its applicability then?
06:36:53 <buZz> and -why- i referenced it?
06:37:04 <ServiceRobot> I see it as an overreaction. yes, the joke could have been handled better
06:37:10 <ServiceRobot> there was an apology. move on
06:37:16 <watchcat> meh. only a few er less intelligent people thought there was any danger.
06:37:17 <buZz> it didnt go live on april 1st either
06:37:41 <ServiceRobot> that's because a lot of devuan admins aren't from the U.S. so it was april first where they were
06:37:53 <buZz> it wasnt, they live in my timezone
06:38:15 <ServiceRobot> not the ones I've spoken to
06:38:16 <buZz> i even confirmed it was hosted on freaknet's infra in italy
06:38:30 <buZz> 'my' timezone isnt US's
06:38:40 <buZz> i, like most people globally, dont live in the US
06:40:21 <ServiceRobot> but what are you trying to get at buzz? the admin responsible for the joke apoligized already.
06:40:42 <buZz> right, the point was your question if it did damage
06:40:55 <buZz> i was saying it probably already did
06:41:03 <buZz> and was explaining why i said that
06:41:05 <ServiceRobot> but how much damage, if any?
06:41:13 <buZz> i even quantified it for you
06:41:24 <buZz> 00:32:21 < buZz> if we were '100' serious before, in eyes of onlookers 00:32:29 < buZz> we will now maybe be '75' serious
06:41:27 <ServiceRobot> I don't want quanfitications. I want examples
06:41:39 <buZz> you literally just asked to quantify it :P
06:42:36 <buZz> say if a company was just considering to move their vps platforms from debian to devuan
06:42:48 <buZz> and now on monday meetings it was first 'eh, devuan repos are hacked'
06:42:59 <buZz> and then 8 hrs later a email 'oh eh it was a joke'
06:43:11 <buZz> do you think a serious company would then still consider devuan an option?
06:43:18 <watchcat> nobody said devuan repos were hacked.
06:44:23 <buZz> 'just' files.devuan.org , git.devuan.org, pkginfo.devuan.org :P
06:45:01 <ServiceRobot> but people were worried they were hacked because the main website was. there was no indication the repos were left untouched. again, an apology was sent, and I'm perfectly fine with it
06:45:17 <buZz> mirrors already have been pulled offline because of this :P
06:45:25 <buZz> and i dont blame them
06:46:09 <watchcat> anyone who asked if the repos were affected were told clearly, "no".
06:46:29 <buZz> right, the same ppl who repeated over and over that it wasnt a joke
06:47:39 <watchcat> well at least complain about real stuff instead of exaggerations.
06:48:01 <buZz> alright, i'm sad there's less mirrors of devuan now
06:48:15 <buZz> i'm also sad its less of a serious distro in the eyes on many now
06:48:26 <buZz> yet i wont stop running it
06:48:55 <buZz> eyes of many*
07:15:06 <ErRandir> April 1st is now over ;)