previous
2019-04-03
09:07:12 <Digit> well... i'd prefer it if we could choose what choices we get to make. being offered a choice of a punch in the face or a kick to the groin is a poor choice, and if not allowed to run away, then there's little sign of freedom. ... colourful analogy aside, i advocate direct democracy, e-democracy, "config democracy" n so on, rather than this multi-year gapped pseudo-elective dictatorship/kleptocracy/oligarchy stuff we have.
09:09:22 <gnarface> in #debian they'd usually respond to such statements simply with "patches welcomed"
09:09:31 <gnarface> however i have a different view on it
09:09:37 <gnarface> at least where it comes to software
09:09:42 <gnarface> not everyone is qualified to vote
09:09:53 <gnarface> and a lot of the people who want a say the most are the ones with the most harmful ideas
09:10:18 <gnarface> i used to think the Linux toolbox sucked
09:10:49 <gnarface> then after about 2-3 years of working with it i realized that i wasn't even remotely qualified to second-guess the people who had made the previous generation of the stuff
09:10:52 <Digit> sounds like coroboration of one of my more controversial voting-system ideas... aptitude tests and weighted votes based on results.
09:11:26 <gnarface> i think feedback from all corners should be welcomed, but yea i don't think the outcome should be that the project just blindly follows the most popular lowest-common-denominator of desires
09:11:54 <gnarface> some value needs to be given to solutions that have proven themselves with longevity
09:12:12 <gnarface> replacing stuff just because it is old is something that unqualified children like to do
09:12:23 <gnarface> and i know this because i remember being one of those punks
09:12:31 <Digit> the magpie effect, yeah, very dangerous. "ooh shiny!"
09:12:32 <gnarface> and if i can grow out of it, so can everyone else
09:13:41 <gnarface> i think the best way to go forward is to find solutions that disrupt the existing ecosystem as little as possible
09:14:15 <gnarface> i had this epiphany the other day that the biggest problem people have with sysv-rc seems to just be that they hate typing out symlinks by hand
09:14:33 <gnarface> this is something that could be solved with a gui tool for them very easily, or even added as an extension to update-rc.d
09:14:51 <gnarface> but then, that wouldn't drive market hype the way redhat's slash-and-burn approach does :-p
09:15:42 <tuxd3v> I think you are right
09:15:52 <gnarface> but a big problem does seem to come from companies that are more willing to spend millions reinventing the entire stack than they are to spend $300 making one guy read the fucking manual
09:16:55 <gnarface> so you have stuff like these expensive commercial backup systems written by teams of people who couldn't figure out how to use tar right
09:17:03 <gnarface> it's a shame
09:17:40 <gnarface> (seriously, go read the netvault product blurb)
09:17:50 <gnarface> (they basically admit they couldn't figure out how to use tar)
09:18:01 <DonkeyHotei> tar? you mean rsync
09:18:11 <gnarface> they'd never even *heard* of rsync
09:18:14 <tuxd3v> all in all, the first impetus to a trash SysVinit was that is uses symlinks, and "know one knows what it does"..they say..
09:18:33 <tuxd3v> when they haven't studied the subject
09:18:35 <Digit> pedagogy inherent in the system. fully integrated, upfront, unavoidable manual/training/education embedded in use... is a dream i had in 2003, imagining it would "just happen" in free software. still a good idea methinks.
09:19:08 <gnarface> i think it's just a basic disciplinary fault of management. but as i've said before, my father used to beat me.
09:19:12 <tuxd3v> Now they have zillions of symlinks, but ina worst way, and tons of a reinvented syntax
09:19:44 <tuxd3v> for a compiled system, that it tends to overcome the kernel itself
09:20:04 <Digit> while it makes little sense to be guided by the lowest common denominator, it makes ample sense to accomodate/mitigate for them.
09:20:18 <Digit> cant just wish em away.
09:21:15 <gnarface> that's true, but i feel systemd isn't accommodating them so much as preying on them.
09:21:19 <gnarface> it doesn't do what they want either
09:21:28 <gnarface> it just is marketed as such, and they're not qualified to distinguish
09:21:39 <gnarface> that should be illegal, but unfortunately is not
09:21:40 <Digit> exacerbates the harms.
09:22:07 * gnarface should stop clogging the channel with soapboxing
09:22:57 <gnarface> but i do think that a couple patches to update-rc.d could obviate the whole symlink management complaint
09:23:03 <tuxd3v> yeah, its true, and some companies around follow, like sheeps
09:23:05 <Digit> yeah, we're doing a bit of preaching to the choir methinks. good food for thought, but we're probably over-stuffed with such nourishment.
09:24:00 <tuxd3v> Indeed,
09:24:09 <tuxd3v> update-rc.d needs tunning
09:24:20 <gnarface> it was just never finished
09:24:35 <gnarface> but i don't think it was fundamentally flawed conceptually
09:24:36 <tuxd3v> and maybe improovments at other levels
09:24:50 <tuxd3v> improvements
09:25:48 <tuxd3v> The symlinks are a good way of dealing with deamons and such
09:26:04 <tuxd3v> we had the chkconfig in the past
09:26:08 <gnarface> i had this idea for a opengl-rendered gui that draws all the links in a big tree structure and is capable of reconstructing them and the LSB-headers based on drag&drop user actions in a dependency-aware fashion. it would be complicated but not as complicated as replacing the entire thing with systemd
09:26:54 <gnarface> and then it would actually solve the problem without removing flexibility OR replacing existing components OR being mandatory in and of itself
09:27:12 <gnarface> and if you make it all colorful and flashy, the kids will like it too
09:27:17 <tuxd3v> its a possibility, for simplicity
09:27:33 <tuxd3v> does you remember chkconfig tool?
09:27:44 <tuxd3v> it worked ok
09:27:45 <gnarface> i remember the name, but i feel like i only ever used it once
09:28:11 <tuxd3v> it created the symlinks automatically on the runlevels you wanted too and such
09:28:19 <tuxd3v> everything worked
09:28:40 <tuxd3v> The unique problem was in checking what deamon should start first
09:28:48 <gnarface> i remember ntsysv, from early redhat
09:28:57 <redrick> The RH version of chkconfig was actually a reinvention: SGI created the initial version for Irix. FYI.
09:29:47 <tuxd3v> but the concept was not enterely bad
09:29:55 <tuxd3v> it needed refinments
09:29:56 <redrick> Right. Worked great.
09:30:23 <tuxd3v> the only problems there were about who should start first
09:31:18 <redrick> I remember grumbling about having to learn update-rc.d, too. ;->
09:31:19 <tuxd3v> for example by some reason if a deamon doesn start, should one that depends on it start?
09:32:06 <tuxd3v> chkconfig was only a tool that behind worked on update-rc.d
09:32:50 <tuxd3v> also creating links and so on, to activate or deactivate the deamon
09:32:50 <redrick> You mean the Debian implementation of chkconfig was back-ended by update-rc.d?
09:33:12 <tuxd3v> I believe so
09:33:29 <tuxd3v> at some point it has to deal with it..
09:33:45 <redrick> I never looked into the Debian version, but instead just switched to the Debian-recommended too (and grumbled a bit).
09:33:58 <redrick> tool, I mean.
09:35:45 <redrick> I see from p.d.o that chkconfig seems to have fallen out of the archive.
09:36:12 <tuxd3v> it was a nice to have tool
09:36:24 <tuxd3v> But it needed also some improovments
09:36:42 <tuxd3v> like gnarface said above
09:36:58 <tuxd3v> about updare-rc.d
09:37:07 <tuxd3v> update-rc.d
09:37:48 <tuxd3v> His Idea is a good option for Graphical environment..
09:38:02 <tuxd3v> But it could work out for text managment too
09:38:16 <tuxd3v> imagine listing things in trees
09:38:50 <redrick> It was in Jessie, but then dropped. But I'm pretty sure there was no dependency on /usr/sbin/update-rc.d . https://packages.debian.org/jessie/chkconfig
09:39:02 <gnarface> yea ncurses would probably work, just not be as popular with the kids. i think that in theory you could make something similar for alsa configs too, knocking off most of the practical needs for pulseaudio, too
09:39:12 <tuxd3v> some sort of a pstree but different
09:39:31 <gnarface> alsa configs would be a lot harder though than the boot order
09:39:42 <gnarface> i think
09:39:54 <gnarface> but it could still be represented in a basic tree structure
09:40:22 <tuxd3v> it doesn't even need to ne ncurses
09:40:28 <redrick> Conceptual humour: 'No screenshot available. Sorry.' https://screenshots.debian.net/package/chkconfig
09:40:56 <tuxd3v> it his a text base tool
09:41:05 <redrick> Quite so.
09:41:20 <redrick> #ThatsTheJoke
09:41:56 <redrick> But they accept uploads. ;->
09:42:10 <tuxd3v> chkconfig --level 12345 deamon off
09:42:26 <tuxd3v> chkconfig del deamon
09:43:22 <tuxd3v> chkconfig --add deamon
09:43:39 <tuxd3v> chkconfig --level 12345 deamon on
09:43:45 <tuxd3v> simple things..
09:44:04 <tuxd3v> it creates behind the symlinks for deamosn and such
09:44:26 <tuxd3v> the problem.. I don't know if it resolved dependencies, I think not..
09:44:58 <tuxd3v> that needed to be sorted out in the script of the deamon
09:45:26 <tuxd3v> But anny way, in systemd you evben have a file that you put all that stuff there, plus
09:45:36 <tuxd3v> later the creation of the deamon..
09:46:04 <tuxd3v> chconfig had a better aproach, and dependencies could be dealed inside each deamon
09:46:23 <tuxd3v> I only start the engine, if I have a engine
09:47:12 <tuxd3v> I think is needed to deal with update-rc.d behind
09:48:07 <tuxd3v> but I agree that a improoved SysVinit is needed
09:48:20 <tuxd3v> evolutionary steps
09:48:54 <tuxd3v> not disruptive changes that ends to be faraonic and in the end, its 10 times more complicated, a mess..
10:07:04 <tuxd3v> <gnarface>, What you are sugesting its something like lstopo
10:07:26 <gnarface> oh, does something like it already exist?
10:07:31 <tuxd3v> lstopo could be a good example of representing also, the processes in a machine
10:07:32 <gnarface> i didn't know
10:07:52 <tuxd3v> exists but for topology
10:08:10 <tuxd3v> it has a cli frontend
10:08:14 <tuxd3v> and a graphical one
10:08:17 <tuxd3v> its very nice
10:13:07 <tuxd3v> The 'hwloc' package provides it
10:13:22 <tuxd3v> but its usually describes hardware
10:13:47 <tuxd3v> its good for multicpu numa systems
10:13:55 <tuxd3v> for tunning
10:14:03 <tuxd3v> path costs and so on..
10:14:20 <tuxd3v> even tough I never use it..
10:14:42 <tuxd3v> but is something that describes something it could deal with alsa
10:18:15 <tuxd3v> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14dvDX17GH0
15:54:45 <ih8wndz> did a refractainstall, got system running in a kvm. trying to figure out networking. full disclosure, I am a funtoo (gentoo) user
16:05:18 <ih8wndz> nvm, figured it out tnx
18:47:02 <premoboss> hello, i have to list what is inside a directory1, but i have to see ONLY the files name, not the names of the directories inside directory1. I read all the man of ls but i dont find a flag as "--exclude-directories-name". i can do a for-next bash script to test if eac name refere to a directoriy or to a file, but i will prefere to use a single command "ls" with (if exists) the right paraleter. Some hit here?
18:50:48 <debdog> from the top of my head, "ls ... | grep ^-" come to mind
18:50:48 <KatolaZ> find ./ -type f
18:50:58 <debdog> hehe, or that one
18:52:47 <KatolaZ> find ./ -type f | sed -r "s:.*/([^/]+):\1:g"
18:59:34 <premoboss> mm i try all.
18:59:59 <Demosthenex> i'm going ot upgrade my box with samba and zfs to ascii today. any reservations?
19:00:41 <premoboss> KatolaZ, that regex what do?
19:00:43 <hightower3> premoboss, something like find /directory1 -type f -maxdepth 1 ?
19:01:26 <KatolaZ> premoboss: remove the directory from the path
19:01:41 <premoboss> and the winner is: hightower3 :-)
19:01:42 <KatolaZ> actually, you could use basename, but it's many more processes to be spawn
19:02:18 <hightower3> premoboss, (also for professional approach, if at all possible add option -print0 to find, and then treat the list as nullchar-separated rather than newline-separated. Most of the common cmdline tools have an option -0 or similar to indicate this)
19:02:33 <debdog> oops, mine only works with ls -l, premoboss
19:03:04 * debdog is too used to his aliasas
19:04:55 <premoboss> debdog, with -l i get also many other parameter, instead i just need te list of the file name. anyway tahnks also to you to read my requewst and try to help.
19:05:20 <debdog> yah, find prolly is the better option here
19:38:35 <detha> or just ls -F | grep -v /
22:49:09 <gnarface> ls -w 1
22:49:14 <gnarface> (single column list)
23:38:39 <nemo> gnarface: what would I use that for?
23:39:30 <gnarface> nemo: to pipe to another script, probably. i was responding late to something, don't worry about it.
23:39:47 <nemo> thought single column was default in piping anyway
23:41:28 <gnarface> i'm not sure if that's always a safe bet
23:42:39 <nemo> apparently piped ls is always equiv to ls -1
23:42:49 <nemo> POSIX requires -1 as the default whenever output is not going to a terminal:"
23:46:12 <gnarface> i was having weird problems with the order being not what i expected
23:46:13 <nemo> although for the cautious, -b is probably a good idea
23:46:22 <gnarface> so i had some thought it was going across columns instead of down them
23:47:19 <gnarface> in the newer versions, the addition of quoted file names with spaces being the default caused some messes for me too
23:47:33 <gnarface> (though you can turn it off with -N, that breaks decades of expected behavior)
23:51:48 <nemo> I'd learned long ago to never do for i in `/bin/ls *foo*`
23:52:03 <nemo> but | while read f doesn't protect against anyone silly enough to put newlines in a file
23:52:06 <nemo> or tricksy enough
23:52:23 <nemo> it's usually not an issue ofc, but possible to make such a file by accident
23:52:40 <nemo> *file name
23:54:35 <nemo> gnarface: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs heh - he doesn't recommend the pipe either tho
23:54:44 <nemo> but then the bash faq is very comprehensive
23:55:02 <nemo> -print0 is annoying, but, eh, I guess if one wants to be (mostly) bulletproof...
23:56:58 <ashleyk> i alwys do while read -r file; do echo $file; done < <(find...)
23:57:37 <ashleyk> or whatever i want in the <()
23:58:09 <ashleyk> aka while read -r line;
---------- 2019-04-04 ----------
00:03:14 <nemo> ashleyk: I guess that's fine so long as you *don
00:03:19 <nemo> 't* want piping/subshells
00:03:35 <ashleyk> you can do that
00:03:38 <nemo> ashleyk: although the -print0 would still be needed if you wanted to be cautious
00:03:58 <ashleyk> you can do piping and subshells inside the while loop?
00:04:00 <nemo> and that syntax is naturally not portable, but number of times where that's mattered for me is close to 0
00:04:24 <nemo> ashleyk: I was just distinguishing between find | while and while… done < <(find)
00:05:05 <ashleyk> one loop to rule them all!
00:08:28 <James1138> ..."my precious"
00:08:38 <nemo> ashleyk: either one is totally fine, so long as the resulting behaviour is what were looking for
00:08:54 <nemo> ashleyk: it's true that the default subshell insulation is probably surprising to most people
00:09:09 <nemo> ashleyk: although not contaminating the environment outside the loop can be good too
00:09:11 <ashleyk> hmm yeah, i dont know a lot about it :p
00:09:13 <nemo> dunno. depends I guess
00:09:55 <ashleyk> whatever works is my motto
00:10:06 <nemo> ashleyk: well... your syntax (besidesb eing shell specific) means that variables created inside the loop are in same scope as parent process so - that means screwing with env vars inside the loop would apply to your parent shell too
00:10:23 <ashleyk> ah, right
00:10:34 <nemo> ashleyk: while, find | while confuses people due to their loop counters or whatever not making it outside the loop if they didn't echo them ☺
00:12:51 <ashleyk> heres another 'whatever works'
00:13:09 <nemo> ashleyk: | awk '{SUM+=$1}END{print SUM}' ← BTW, don't know much awk, but I use it for loop summation a lot ☺
00:13:10 <ashleyk> TSV format file reading: cat "$clientsFile" | while IFS=$'\t' read -r port client memo _
00:13:39 <nemo> ashleyk: yeah. that's probably the standard way to split a string into an array
00:14:19 <ashleyk> yeah bash is great...i dont do portable stuff :p
00:14:29 <nemo> $ grep IFS 2000_histoire/fetch.sh | head -n 1 IFS=: read -a COL <<< "$f"
00:14:48 <nemo> I was grabbing some episodes of a super interesting history program that was not good at podcasts
00:15:11 <ashleyk> about the french revolution? heh
00:15:14 <nemo> so step one of my munger went to their website and grabbed the html and parsed it, then this was the fetcher that turned it into something useful
00:15:22 <nemo> ashleyk: about all kinds of stuff really
00:15:43 <nemo> https://blog-histoire.fr/ there's a nicer fan site now
00:15:59 <nemo> but it did not exist 10 years ago
00:20:48 <ashleyk> nice, bbl
01:14:05 <premoboss> i have to parse the thr name of a file and extract the extention. it is easy to do cut -d "." -f2 if the filename is easy as music.mp3 or printme.ps, but how to do if a file is named crazy.name.for.a.file.avi?
01:14:07 <premoboss> in other words, i have to capture all the characters after the last "."
01:14:20 <premoboss> (if it exist)
01:15:28 <KatolaZ> premoboss: man basename
01:16:41 <KatolaZ> oh you want just the extension sorry
01:21:05 <nemo> premoboss: you using bash?
01:21:16 <premoboss> nemo, yes
01:21:31 <gnarface> premoboss: heard of "file" ?
01:22:08 <gnarface> (filename parsing to assume mime-type based on name doesn't solve for the issue of the file not having any extension)
01:22:17 <nemo> FILE=crazy.name.for.a.file.avi
01:22:19 <nemo> echo ${FILE##*.}
01:22:22 <KatolaZ> ls | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g'
01:22:26 <nemo> https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/string-manipulation.html
01:22:33 <KatolaZ> this doies part of the job
01:22:53 <gnarface> file super_late_fun_time.avi
01:22:53 <gnarface> super_late_fun_time.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 720 x 480, ~30 fps, video: FFMpeg MPEG-4, audio: Dolby AC3 (stereo, 48000 Hz)
01:23:00 <KatolaZ> 'cause it also prints the filename of files without an extension
01:23:16 <KatolaZ> sorry but I gotta go
01:23:33 <premoboss> tnanks all
01:23:59 <premoboss> thanks 2 all of yo
01:24:02 <premoboss> thanks 2 all of you
01:24:09 <gnarface> there's like a ton of ways to do this, but make sure you know for sure whether you actually want to know the file name suffix, or just the type of data it contains
01:24:23 <gnarface> since there's no guarantee those will match
01:24:43 <KatolaZ> but you can remove those with
01:27:32 <KatolaZ> ls | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g;s/^[^\.]*//g;/^$/d'
01:27:36 <premoboss> look, my goal is split filename to add a string inside: namefile.extension must became namefileMYSTRYNG.extention and if no extention exist, it must became namefileMYSTRUNG
01:28:05 <nemo> premoboss: why not just use rename?
01:28:31 <premoboss> nemo, because i didnt know it is possible to do with rename :-)
01:28:55 <premoboss> if it is possible, now i read man rename
01:29:06 <nemo> touch foo.bar foo
01:29:14 <nemo> rename 's/\./EXTRA./' foo*
01:29:18 <nemo> foo fooEXTRA.bar
01:29:46 <nemo> premoboss: then you just need to do the $ case
01:29:53 <nemo> you could do those in a single command but 2 might be safer
01:30:54 <premoboss> nemo what if therea re a name like this.is.my.file.avi? i need it became this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi
01:33:31 <premoboss> nemo, if I try your rename with 1.2.3.4.avi, it became 1EXTRA.2.3.4.avi, i neet it became 1.2.3.4EXTRA.avi.
01:33:49 <premoboss> i dont know how much "." can be inside the name of file.
01:35:34 <nemo> /tmp/test$ touch this.is.my.file.avi this_is_my_file_avi
01:35:40 <nemo> $ rename 's/(.*)\./$1EXTRA./' *
01:35:46 <nemo> $ rename 's/^([^.]*)$/$1EXTRA/' *
01:35:50 <nemo> this_is_my_file_aviEXTRA this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi
01:38:56 <premoboss> nemo: no. i try to trell you better. the name of file can be whatever it is. can be or can be not an extention, can be one or more "dot" inside the name. i.e. file, file.txt, this-is_my.file.txt. then must became: fileEXTRA, fileEXTRA.txt, this-is_my.fileEXTRA.txt.
01:39:10 <nemo> and those patterns above would match both of those
01:39:12 <nemo> all of those even
01:39:21 <premoboss> ok, i will test immediately.
01:39:22 <nemo> how is my result not what you wanted
01:39:48 <premoboss> becayse i bad read yout text, sorry.
01:39:54 <Demosthenex> ok, ascii upgrade went pretty smooth... but how can i repeat the prompts for merging config files? my ipmi console was crap and i had to skip them
01:43:13 <gnarface> Demosthenex: just merge them manually
01:44:14 <Demosthenex> gnarface: i don't have a record for what was missed. i have least 3 that were at the prompt then ipmi disconnected and i had to blindly hit return
01:44:22 <gnarface> Demosthenex: the unmerged ones should be in /etc right along side the regular config with .dpkg-old or .dpkg-dist extensions (depending on whether the version is the pre-merge or packaged version)
01:46:11 <ashleyk> just got a intel nuc
01:47:05 <gnarface> Demosthenex: (i like to use emacs for large config merges, but i'm sure there are other tools to help too)
01:47:42 <James1138> Question about Devuan. A few months back, I installed "reportlog" - hoping to help (however small) in my own way those working on future version of Devuan. Is there anyway to find out if the reports are reaching the right people... or do I need just purge "reportlog" and try something else?
01:47:49 <Demosthenex> gnarface: i was hoping there was a tool like dpkg-reconfigure to repeat them :P
01:48:01 <Demosthenex> gnarface: guess i can just find /etc | grep dist
01:48:34 <gnarface> Demosthenex: i don't know that there's not, this is just always the way i've done it, because i like emacs better
01:48:50 <gnarface> it has a file merge feature with color-coding
01:48:54 <gnarface> guided
01:49:04 <James1138> I meant "reportbug" - sorry all!
01:49:14 <Demosthenex> gnarface: i'm already an aged emacser ;]
01:49:40 <gnarface> James1138: they should go here, i think. not sure if they're expected to show up immediately though, and i recall at least in the past someone having to change the reportbug config to make it work... https://bugs.devuan.org/
01:52:28 <James1138> Thank for the tip ganrface - I shall check out the link.
01:56:21 <ashleyk> is there a way that actually works to convert the netinstall iso to a flash drive
01:57:03 <gnarface> ashleyk: no need, it's special hybrid-iso
01:58:16 <Demosthenex> gnarface: what's your fav emacs diff mode? ;]
01:59:10 <gnarface> Demosthenex: i've been using M-x ediff-merge-buffers
02:01:12 <ashleyk> gonna try devuan for Nessus
02:01:46 <ashleyk> their supported distro list is really bad
02:15:38 <ashleyk> guess i bricked it already trying to disable secure boot
02:19:24 <gnarface> is that possible?
02:19:44 <gnarface> you can't even reset the bios settings?
02:19:55 <gnarface> pull the cmos battery out and count to 10 or whatever?
02:20:02 <ashleyk> yeah about to do the cmos jumper
02:20:24 <ashleyk> because the other methods didnt work
02:35:04 <ashleyk> but nooooooo they just had to shove uefi and secureboot down everyones throats
02:36:51 <ashleyk> thanks intel and microsoft
02:37:50 <ashleyk> when chip and os backdoors arent enough, go after the bios, then get your buddies to go after the OS, then takeover the kernel too, and do that!
02:38:23 <ashleyk> but i got it installing
02:39:05 <ashleyk> no ethernet detected though
02:40:11 <ashleyk> guess its not open code because of the backdoors in the ethernet
02:47:06 <Demosthenex> gnarface: thanks for the feedback
02:47:15 <Demosthenex> that upgrade went pretty smoothly all things considered
02:47:58 <gnarface> no problem, glad to hear it
02:53:05 <ashleyk> well the installer is trying to find ethernet
02:53:10 <ashleyk> and cant
02:56:12 <ashleyk> ah, linux isnt supported
02:57:34 <gnarface> ashleyk: you're probably just missing a non-free firmware package
02:57:38 <gnarface> i'm not sure which one
02:57:59 <ashleyk> should i try with the dvd iso ?
02:58:15 <gnarface> you should be able to load the package into the installer
02:58:23 <gnarface> or complete the install then copy the package over via usb
02:58:50 <gnarface> you just have to figure out which one it is
02:59:04 <ashleyk> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005499/mini-pcs.html
02:59:41 <ashleyk> probably not worth it actually
02:59:43 <gnarface> is it wifi you mean, or the wired ethernet that's not working?
02:59:52 <ashleyk> ethernet
03:02:24 <gnarface> oh, maybe you need the backport kernel because the hardware is that new
03:02:25 <gnarface> that's possible too
03:03:57 <ashleyk> or i just run windows 10 and network bridged vms
03:04:37 <ashleyk> problem is i need an x86 device to run nessus because they went closed source
03:04:48 <ashleyk> and dont provide arm compiles
03:05:00 <ashleyk> but all this new hardware is locked down for microsoft
03:25:12 <specing> ashleyk: stop using proprietary software
03:25:40 <ashleyk> i tried openvas, and its going the same direction
03:25:52 <ashleyk> also, it doesnt work
03:28:55 <ashleyk> i dont know how you can just take an opensource software and go closed source
03:30:27 <unixman> ashleyk, what about OpenVAS doesn't work? I'm curious because I was going to suggest that to our SOC.
03:30:42 <ashleyk> the CVE scanner doesnt work
03:30:50 <ashleyk> just the nmap part
03:31:12 <ashleyk> for me at least, the CVE scanner always says the host in unchreachable and its undebuggable. pinging the host works fine
03:32:15 <va7lnx> ashleyk: try disabling selinux on that openvas host.
03:32:26 <ashleyk> selinux wasnt installed
03:32:40 <va7lnx> hrm. I got nothing then.
03:33:21 <unixman> That does seem like a configuration thing to me though. What port(s) is it trying to hit?
03:33:24 <ashleyk> va7lnx, you have seen the "CVE" scanner work before? i cant even find any articles online about someone actually saying they use it or it works either. everyone is doing the other scan type
03:34:01 <va7lnx> ashleyk: I was doing a quick google search.
03:34:16 <va7lnx> anyhow. I have to get to class. 3 days left before finals. :\
03:37:26 <va7lnx> i get to drive from burnaby metrotown to coquitlam centre for one 2 hour class. *sigh*
03:37:48 <ashleyk> city life is a drag :p
03:38:34 <va7lnx> it's worse when skytrain goes from here to there, but takes twice as long.
05:16:29 <Digit> anyone know how to get xscreensaver to switch off the monitor after a while? in xscreensaver-demo's advanced tab, under "Display Power Management" there's standby, suspend & off, but i dont want to risk trying any of them in case they swich off my computer, rather than just stop my monitor emitting light.
05:20:15 <tuxd3v> xscreen saver adpaced tab
05:20:19 <tuxd3v> advanced
05:20:32 <tuxd3v> Dyspolay power managment
05:20:49 <tuxd3v> Quick power of in Blank only Mode
05:22:59 <gnarface> Digit: don't worry, it means dpms settings by that.
05:23:01 <tuxd3v> Digit, you are in Xfce right?
05:23:48 <Digit> tuxd3v: nope. just xmonad.
05:24:14 <tuxd3v> But you are using XScreen saver right?
05:24:28 <Digit> yes, that's what i'm asking about. xscreensaver.
05:24:34 <tuxd3v> advanced tab
05:24:40 <Digit> yes, that's what i said
05:24:43 <tuxd3v> then on Power Managment section
05:24:48 <Digit> yes, that's what i said
05:24:50 <tuxd3v> you have there a option
05:25:12 <tuxd3v> Quick Power off in Blank only Mode
05:25:19 <tuxd3v> activate it
05:25:21 <MinceR> Digit: those options only turn the monitor off
05:25:27 <MinceR> i use them daily
05:25:32 <Digit> thanks MinceR.
05:26:08 <tuxd3v> CRTL+ALT+l
05:27:15 * Digit hopes gnarface & MinceR are right. ~ sure he remembered those settings causing unwanted computer shutdown in the past
05:27:58 <gnarface> well, are you sure it wasn't a false positive? some of those screensavers aren't stable
05:28:22 <gnarface> the opengl ones cause stability issues with nvidia proprietary and also will suck your battery dry really fast
05:28:34 <gnarface> i recommend disabling them
05:28:40 <tuxd3v> I had some troubles with xscreensaver in the past...but it was my fault, becasue I choosed times to hibernate very shorts..
05:28:51 <tuxd3v> then I suffered a shutdown
05:29:24 <tuxd3v> Can we use Slim, has a screen saver type?
05:29:29 <tuxd3v> imagine
05:29:33 <tuxd3v> lock screen
05:29:46 <tuxd3v> is used dpms and goes blank
05:29:55 <gnarface> i'm not sure about that but e17 does have a built-in lock screen
05:30:02 <tuxd3v> touch any key, it activates with the slim session manager?
05:30:04 <Digit> typically i would just use galaxy. but i'll make sure the GL ones are off for this test.
05:31:34 <ashleyk> hola tuxd3v
05:31:46 <MinceR> xscreensaver has gotten really buggy lately, but i doubt it has code to shutdown the computer
05:32:07 <gnarface> lately? it's never been better. it's always been exactly this buggy.
05:32:24 <gnarface> at least from my perspective
05:32:36 <gnarface> but a lot really has to do with which actual screensavers you activate
05:33:00 <gnarface> they are of wildly varying quality and resource consumption
05:33:26 <MinceR> i haven't seen it blank its own window during password entry (without timing out) before
05:33:44 <MinceR> i could tell it's still there because it still constrains the pointer to its box and i can still unlock it
05:34:06 <gnarface> you mean you have seen that?
05:34:07 <MinceR> also, it realized its config file was overwritten before and reread it
05:34:16 <MinceR> then it stopped doing that and had to be told explicitly
05:34:17 <tuxd3v> Hi ashleyk
05:34:49 <gnarface> there are several xscreensaver-* packages in the repos. a couple of them are optional and i suspect they are where the more problematic screensavers are located.
05:35:20 <gnarface> i would especially be wary of xscreensaver-gl, xscreensaver-gl-extra and xscreensaver-screensaver-webcollage
05:35:20 <MinceR> i don't even use any modules, i have it set to blank or disable
05:36:01 * Digit goes for the test, blanking after 1m, standby after 2, suspend after 3, off after 4minues. ~~scared~~ ~~~ meditates ~~~
05:36:22 <gnarface> Digit: you did make sure you don't have sleep or hibernate timeouts for the machine set elsewhere, right?
05:36:31 <tuxd3v> MAn.. that times are very very short
05:36:34 * Digit pauses the test to check that
05:37:08 <gnarface> Standby: 305 Suspend: 306 Off: 307
05:37:11 <gnarface> system defaults in seconds^
05:37:15 <gnarface> for dpms
05:37:18 <tuxd3v> I havce
05:37:24 <tuxd3v> standby 30 minutes
05:37:33 <tuxd3v> suspend after 60 minutes
05:37:40 <tuxd3v> off after 120 minutes
05:39:12 <Digit> gnarface: nothing obvious in /etc/X11/xorg.conf where else might there be sleep or hibernate timeouts?
05:40:43 <gnarface> Digit: uh... acpi maybe? is it a laptop? some laptop brands have brand-specific packages and kernel modules too. maybe it could be in the window manager settings as well, though for xmonad i thought it was pretty minimal and didn't have such stuff. maybe you don't even need to worry about it, but i was just thinking of things that could give you false positives on your test
05:41:50 <DonkeyHotei> sleep/hibernate timeouts are part of the DE, no?
05:42:09 <gnarface> DonkeyHotei: sometimes, but i don't know for sure that's the only place they go.
05:42:22 <gnarface> er, the only place they can go
05:42:37 <DonkeyHotei> as for switching off the monitor, that's DPMS, which is part of the terminal
05:42:53 <gnarface> yea, he's got that part covered with xscreensaver
05:43:15 <gnarface> suspend/hibernate timeouts might also be exposed as raw files in /sys/ i think
05:44:07 <tuxd3v> Found it:
05:44:10 <tuxd3v> slimlock
05:44:21 <tuxd3v> its the way to lock screen on slim
05:44:28 <gnarface> interesting
05:44:38 * Digit returns from test
05:44:57 <gnarface> everything fine?
05:45:14 <tuxd3v> it works
05:45:19 <tuxd3v> very very nice!!
05:45:31 <tuxd3v> test it on shell typing
05:45:34 <tuxd3v> slimlock
05:45:38 <tuxd3v> amazing
05:45:47 <tuxd3v> beutifull simplicity
05:46:40 <Digit> hdmi monitor stays blue through standby, suspend, and off. dvi monitor does stop emitting light (cept the power light goes yellow, which is fine). (and my display power monitor's been broken for a while, so couldnt test). good to know my computer didnt enter hibernate or shutdown. :) thanks for your help gnarface & MinceR.
05:47:05 <buZz> 'xset dpms force off' -should- turn off your monitor
05:47:15 <buZz> if not, dpms isnt working well for you :)
05:47:20 <Digit> so, before bed, i just need remember switch off my hdmi.
05:47:38 <buZz> Digit: sounds like you're using a TV
05:47:42 <buZz> and not a monitor ;)
05:47:47 <buZz> TVs dont support DPMS usually
05:48:00 <Digit> xset dpms force off just made my monitors emit black, not actually off.
05:48:12 <buZz> Digit: it -should- turn them actually off
05:48:20 <buZz> incl backlights
05:48:46 <buZz> are you running the proper videodrivers for your graphics interface?
05:48:49 <Digit> dell 3008wfpt 30" monitors.
05:48:58 <buZz> (as in, not nouveau for nvidia)
05:49:14 * Digit nods, ~ straight nvidia
05:49:21 <buZz> i run official nvidia drivers on a gtx1060 , xset dpms force off turns my screens -off-
05:49:25 <buZz> incl backlights
05:49:36 <buZz> on DP, DVI -and- HDMI connectors
05:49:36 <gnarface> hmmm. HDMI might have an alternate feature available for turning the display off... HDMI CEC i think it's called?
05:49:37 <Digit> could just be my cheap monitors. :3
05:49:52 <buZz> Digit: none of my monitors costed more then 50 euro
05:50:09 <DonkeyHotei> CEC is different
05:50:13 <gnarface> Digit: it could be. it depends on where and when you bought them. but here in the US it's illegal to sell displays that aren't DPMS-enabled
05:50:36 <buZz> highly doubt those dell monitors -dont- support DPMS
05:50:59 <Digit> buZz: yeah, i got greedy, went for 30", 3 of them, ~ cheapest i could find, 2nd hand. i forget how much, but ... more than 50 euro anyway.
05:51:06 <buZz> i got a dell monitor here, supports DPMS fine
05:51:27 <buZz> a DELL P2412H
05:52:19 <gnarface> DonkeyHotei: i just brought up the CEC thing because there is cec-utils in the repos and i thought that if DPMS failed him it would be an alternative that didn't require getting up to push the power button manually
05:52:52 <gnarface> i guess i don't even know for sure that cec-utils package is actually the same thing as HDMI CEC
05:53:02 <gnarface> never touched it
05:53:23 <Digit> i wonder if there's just some settings in the monitor that i could meddle with, to stop it emitting blue... for the one connected with hdmi. *fiddles*
05:54:00 <gnarface> it's just bare HDMI right, no adapters?
05:54:28 <DonkeyHotei> not every nvidia card supports cec, either
05:54:30 <Digit> cable goes from hdmi to hdmi, monitor to card.
05:58:49 <hightower2> congrats on the conference
05:59:16 <Digit> oh. that caused me a half second panic thinking i'd missed it. n_n
06:01:16 * Digit gives up on figuring out how to get his hdmi connected monitor to stop going brightest blue instead of not emitting light, for this attempt now, happy enough making do with his "remember to turn it off before bed" workaround
06:02:20 <Digit> glad i can now fall asleep watching things on the middle monitor (dvi), n not have it glare light through the night
06:03:32 <gnarface> Digit: my projector does that too when all the inputs power off... you should be able to find a menu setting to change the color of that screen from blue to black or grey
06:04:04 <Digit> i'll have another rummage around in the monitor's settings trying to find it.
06:04:05 <gnarface> the hdmi connection must be going to sleep without making the monitor sleep
06:04:15 <gnarface> i'm not sure where the blame for that would be
06:04:52 <gnarface> but that probably means it has it's own menu settings for sleep timeouts too
06:07:57 <Digit> yikes. tried one setting i was unsure of, now the screen's super bright n tiny on the monitor. eep. and the menu wont come back. O_O
06:08:31 <Digit> oooo, and the other button i didnt know what it does changed it to full screen and non-superbright...
06:08:58 <gnarface> must be scaling for lower resolutions than the display native?
06:09:05 <Digit> ah, i see, that option in the menu just does the same as that other button. pbp setting.
06:13:01 <Digit> oh, nope. nothing in the menus for stopping it be blue.
06:13:04 <Digit> ah well.
06:13:32 <Digit> normal service resumes in #devuan. :)
06:15:08 <gnarface> Digit: well, the cheap ones have less features. it might still be worth consulting the manual though.
06:16:52 <Digit> yup. cheap ones. that seems to be the case. no option to have it not do that.
06:23:59 <misterunknown> ls -l
06:25:03 <Digit> no such dir
2019-04-04
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