previous
2019-04-03
19:07:12 <Digit> well... i'd prefer it if we could choose what choices we get to make. being offered a choice of a punch in the face or a kick to the groin is a poor choice, and if not allowed to run away, then there's little sign of freedom. ... colourful analogy aside, i advocate direct democracy, e-democracy, "config democracy" n so on, rather than this multi-year gapped pseudo-elective dictatorship/kleptocracy/oligarchy stuff we have.
19:09:22 <gnarface> in #debian they'd usually respond to such statements simply with "patches welcomed"
19:09:31 <gnarface> however i have a different view on it
19:09:37 <gnarface> at least where it comes to software
19:09:42 <gnarface> not everyone is qualified to vote
19:09:53 <gnarface> and a lot of the people who want a say the most are the ones with the most harmful ideas
19:10:18 <gnarface> i used to think the Linux toolbox sucked
19:10:49 <gnarface> then after about 2-3 years of working with it i realized that i wasn't even remotely qualified to second-guess the people who had made the previous generation of the stuff
19:10:52 <Digit> sounds like coroboration of one of my more controversial voting-system ideas... aptitude tests and weighted votes based on results.
19:11:26 <gnarface> i think feedback from all corners should be welcomed, but yea i don't think the outcome should be that the project just blindly follows the most popular lowest-common-denominator of desires
19:11:54 <gnarface> some value needs to be given to solutions that have proven themselves with longevity
19:12:12 <gnarface> replacing stuff just because it is old is something that unqualified children like to do
19:12:23 <gnarface> and i know this because i remember being one of those punks
19:12:31 <Digit> the magpie effect, yeah, very dangerous. "ooh shiny!"
19:12:32 <gnarface> and if i can grow out of it, so can everyone else
19:13:41 <gnarface> i think the best way to go forward is to find solutions that disrupt the existing ecosystem as little as possible
19:14:15 <gnarface> i had this epiphany the other day that the biggest problem people have with sysv-rc seems to just be that they hate typing out symlinks by hand
19:14:33 <gnarface> this is something that could be solved with a gui tool for them very easily, or even added as an extension to update-rc.d
19:14:51 <gnarface> but then, that wouldn't drive market hype the way redhat's slash-and-burn approach does :-p
19:15:42 <tuxd3v> I think you are right
19:15:52 <gnarface> but a big problem does seem to come from companies that are more willing to spend millions reinventing the entire stack than they are to spend $300 making one guy read the fucking manual
19:16:55 <gnarface> so you have stuff like these expensive commercial backup systems written by teams of people who couldn't figure out how to use tar right
19:17:03 <gnarface> it's a shame
19:17:40 <gnarface> (seriously, go read the netvault product blurb)
19:17:50 <gnarface> (they basically admit they couldn't figure out how to use tar)
19:18:01 <DonkeyHotei> tar? you mean rsync
19:18:11 <gnarface> they'd never even *heard* of rsync
19:18:14 <tuxd3v> all in all, the first impetus to a trash SysVinit was that is uses symlinks, and "know one knows what it does"..they say..
19:18:33 <tuxd3v> when they haven't studied the subject
19:18:35 <Digit> pedagogy inherent in the system. fully integrated, upfront, unavoidable manual/training/education embedded in use... is a dream i had in 2003, imagining it would "just happen" in free software. still a good idea methinks.
19:19:08 <gnarface> i think it's just a basic disciplinary fault of management. but as i've said before, my father used to beat me.
19:19:12 <tuxd3v> Now they have zillions of symlinks, but ina worst way, and tons of a reinvented syntax
19:19:44 <tuxd3v> for a compiled system, that it tends to overcome the kernel itself
19:20:04 <Digit> while it makes little sense to be guided by the lowest common denominator, it makes ample sense to accomodate/mitigate for them.
19:20:18 <Digit> cant just wish em away.
19:21:15 <gnarface> that's true, but i feel systemd isn't accommodating them so much as preying on them.
19:21:19 <gnarface> it doesn't do what they want either
19:21:28 <gnarface> it just is marketed as such, and they're not qualified to distinguish
19:21:39 <gnarface> that should be illegal, but unfortunately is not
19:21:40 <Digit> exacerbates the harms.
19:22:07 * gnarface should stop clogging the channel with soapboxing
19:22:57 <gnarface> but i do think that a couple patches to update-rc.d could obviate the whole symlink management complaint
19:23:03 <tuxd3v> yeah, its true, and some companies around follow, like sheeps
19:23:05 <Digit> yeah, we're doing a bit of preaching to the choir methinks. good food for thought, but we're probably over-stuffed with such nourishment.
19:24:00 <tuxd3v> Indeed,
19:24:09 <tuxd3v> update-rc.d needs tunning
19:24:20 <gnarface> it was just never finished
19:24:35 <gnarface> but i don't think it was fundamentally flawed conceptually
19:24:36 <tuxd3v> and maybe improovments at other levels
19:24:50 <tuxd3v> improvements
19:25:48 <tuxd3v> The symlinks are a good way of dealing with deamons and such
19:26:04 <tuxd3v> we had the chkconfig in the past
19:26:08 <gnarface> i had this idea for a opengl-rendered gui that draws all the links in a big tree structure and is capable of reconstructing them and the LSB-headers based on drag&drop user actions in a dependency-aware fashion. it would be complicated but not as complicated as replacing the entire thing with systemd
19:26:54 <gnarface> and then it would actually solve the problem without removing flexibility OR replacing existing components OR being mandatory in and of itself
19:27:12 <gnarface> and if you make it all colorful and flashy, the kids will like it too
19:27:17 <tuxd3v> its a possibility, for simplicity
19:27:33 <tuxd3v> does you remember chkconfig tool?
19:27:44 <tuxd3v> it worked ok
19:27:45 <gnarface> i remember the name, but i feel like i only ever used it once
19:28:11 <tuxd3v> it created the symlinks automatically on the runlevels you wanted too and such
19:28:19 <tuxd3v> everything worked
19:28:40 <tuxd3v> The unique problem was in checking what deamon should start first
19:28:48 <gnarface> i remember ntsysv, from early redhat
19:28:57 <redrick> The RH version of chkconfig was actually a reinvention: SGI created the initial version for Irix. FYI.
19:29:47 <tuxd3v> but the concept was not enterely bad
19:29:55 <tuxd3v> it needed refinments
19:29:56 <redrick> Right. Worked great.
19:30:23 <tuxd3v> the only problems there were about who should start first
19:31:18 <redrick> I remember grumbling about having to learn update-rc.d, too. ;->
19:31:19 <tuxd3v> for example by some reason if a deamon doesn start, should one that depends on it start?
19:32:06 <tuxd3v> chkconfig was only a tool that behind worked on update-rc.d
19:32:50 <tuxd3v> also creating links and so on, to activate or deactivate the deamon
19:32:50 <redrick> You mean the Debian implementation of chkconfig was back-ended by update-rc.d?
19:33:12 <tuxd3v> I believe so
19:33:29 <tuxd3v> at some point it has to deal with it..
19:33:45 <redrick> I never looked into the Debian version, but instead just switched to the Debian-recommended too (and grumbled a bit).
19:33:58 <redrick> tool, I mean.
19:35:45 <redrick> I see from p.d.o that chkconfig seems to have fallen out of the archive.
19:36:12 <tuxd3v> it was a nice to have tool
19:36:24 <tuxd3v> But it needed also some improovments
19:36:42 <tuxd3v> like gnarface said above
19:36:58 <tuxd3v> about updare-rc.d
19:37:07 <tuxd3v> update-rc.d
19:37:48 <tuxd3v> His Idea is a good option for Graphical environment..
19:38:02 <tuxd3v> But it could work out for text managment too
19:38:16 <tuxd3v> imagine listing things in trees
19:38:50 <redrick> It was in Jessie, but then dropped. But I'm pretty sure there was no dependency on /usr/sbin/update-rc.d . https://packages.debian.org/jessie/chkconfig
19:39:02 <gnarface> yea ncurses would probably work, just not be as popular with the kids. i think that in theory you could make something similar for alsa configs too, knocking off most of the practical needs for pulseaudio, too
19:39:12 <tuxd3v> some sort of a pstree but different
19:39:31 <gnarface> alsa configs would be a lot harder though than the boot order
19:39:42 <gnarface> i think
19:39:54 <gnarface> but it could still be represented in a basic tree structure
19:40:22 <tuxd3v> it doesn't even need to ne ncurses
19:40:28 <redrick> Conceptual humour: 'No screenshot available. Sorry.' https://screenshots.debian.net/package/chkconfig
19:40:56 <tuxd3v> it his a text base tool
19:41:05 <redrick> Quite so.
19:41:20 <redrick> #ThatsTheJoke
19:41:56 <redrick> But they accept uploads. ;->
19:42:10 <tuxd3v> chkconfig --level 12345 deamon off
19:42:26 <tuxd3v> chkconfig del deamon
19:43:22 <tuxd3v> chkconfig --add deamon
19:43:39 <tuxd3v> chkconfig --level 12345 deamon on
19:43:45 <tuxd3v> simple things..
19:44:04 <tuxd3v> it creates behind the symlinks for deamosn and such
19:44:26 <tuxd3v> the problem.. I don't know if it resolved dependencies, I think not..
19:44:58 <tuxd3v> that needed to be sorted out in the script of the deamon
19:45:26 <tuxd3v> But anny way, in systemd you evben have a file that you put all that stuff there, plus
19:45:36 <tuxd3v> later the creation of the deamon..
19:46:04 <tuxd3v> chconfig had a better aproach, and dependencies could be dealed inside each deamon
19:46:23 <tuxd3v> I only start the engine, if I have a engine
19:47:12 <tuxd3v> I think is needed to deal with update-rc.d behind
19:48:07 <tuxd3v> but I agree that a improoved SysVinit is needed
19:48:20 <tuxd3v> evolutionary steps
19:48:54 <tuxd3v> not disruptive changes that ends to be faraonic and in the end, its 10 times more complicated, a mess..
20:07:04 <tuxd3v> <gnarface>, What you are sugesting its something like lstopo
20:07:26 <gnarface> oh, does something like it already exist?
20:07:31 <tuxd3v> lstopo could be a good example of representing also, the processes in a machine
20:07:32 <gnarface> i didn't know
20:07:52 <tuxd3v> exists but for topology
20:08:10 <tuxd3v> it has a cli frontend
20:08:14 <tuxd3v> and a graphical one
20:08:17 <tuxd3v> its very nice
20:13:07 <tuxd3v> The 'hwloc' package provides it
20:13:22 <tuxd3v> but its usually describes hardware
20:13:47 <tuxd3v> its good for multicpu numa systems
20:13:55 <tuxd3v> for tunning
20:14:03 <tuxd3v> path costs and so on..
20:14:20 <tuxd3v> even tough I never use it..
20:14:42 <tuxd3v> but is something that describes something it could deal with alsa
20:18:15 <tuxd3v> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14dvDX17GH0
---------- 2019-04-04 ----------
01:54:45 <ih8wndz> did a refractainstall, got system running in a kvm. trying to figure out networking. full disclosure, I am a funtoo (gentoo) user
02:05:18 <ih8wndz> nvm, figured it out tnx
04:47:02 <premoboss> hello, i have to list what is inside a directory1, but i have to see ONLY the files name, not the names of the directories inside directory1. I read all the man of ls but i dont find a flag as "--exclude-directories-name". i can do a for-next bash script to test if eac name refere to a directoriy or to a file, but i will prefere to use a single command "ls" with (if exists) the right paraleter. Some hit here?
04:50:48 <debdog> from the top of my head, "ls ... | grep ^-" come to mind
04:50:48 <KatolaZ> find ./ -type f
04:50:58 <debdog> hehe, or that one
04:52:47 <KatolaZ> find ./ -type f | sed -r "s:.*/([^/]+):\1:g"
04:59:34 <premoboss> mm i try all.
04:59:59 <Demosthenex> i'm going ot upgrade my box with samba and zfs to ascii today. any reservations?
05:00:41 <premoboss> KatolaZ, that regex what do?
05:00:43 <hightower3> premoboss, something like find /directory1 -type f -maxdepth 1 ?
05:01:26 <KatolaZ> premoboss: remove the directory from the path
05:01:41 <premoboss> and the winner is: hightower3 :-)
05:01:42 <KatolaZ> actually, you could use basename, but it's many more processes to be spawn
05:02:18 <hightower3> premoboss, (also for professional approach, if at all possible add option -print0 to find, and then treat the list as nullchar-separated rather than newline-separated. Most of the common cmdline tools have an option -0 or similar to indicate this)
05:02:33 <debdog> oops, mine only works with ls -l, premoboss
05:03:04 * debdog is too used to his aliasas
05:04:55 <premoboss> debdog, with -l i get also many other parameter, instead i just need te list of the file name. anyway tahnks also to you to read my requewst and try to help.
05:05:20 <debdog> yah, find prolly is the better option here
05:38:35 <detha> or just ls -F | grep -v /
08:49:09 <gnarface> ls -w 1
08:49:14 <gnarface> (single column list)
09:38:39 <nemo> gnarface: what would I use that for?
09:39:30 <gnarface> nemo: to pipe to another script, probably. i was responding late to something, don't worry about it.
09:39:47 <nemo> thought single column was default in piping anyway
09:41:28 <gnarface> i'm not sure if that's always a safe bet
09:42:39 <nemo> apparently piped ls is always equiv to ls -1
09:42:49 <nemo> POSIX requires -1 as the default whenever output is not going to a terminal:"
09:46:12 <gnarface> i was having weird problems with the order being not what i expected
09:46:13 <nemo> although for the cautious, -b is probably a good idea
09:46:22 <gnarface> so i had some thought it was going across columns instead of down them
09:47:19 <gnarface> in the newer versions, the addition of quoted file names with spaces being the default caused some messes for me too
09:47:33 <gnarface> (though you can turn it off with -N, that breaks decades of expected behavior)
09:51:48 <nemo> I'd learned long ago to never do for i in `/bin/ls *foo*`
09:52:03 <nemo> but | while read f doesn't protect against anyone silly enough to put newlines in a file
09:52:06 <nemo> or tricksy enough
09:52:23 <nemo> it's usually not an issue ofc, but possible to make such a file by accident
09:52:40 <nemo> *file name
09:54:35 <nemo> gnarface: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs heh - he doesn't recommend the pipe either tho
09:54:44 <nemo> but then the bash faq is very comprehensive
09:55:02 <nemo> -print0 is annoying, but, eh, I guess if one wants to be (mostly) bulletproof...
09:56:58 <ashleyk> i alwys do while read -r file; do echo $file; done < <(find...)
09:57:37 <ashleyk> or whatever i want in the <()
09:58:09 <ashleyk> aka while read -r line;
10:03:14 <nemo> ashleyk: I guess that's fine so long as you *don
10:03:19 <nemo> 't* want piping/subshells
10:03:35 <ashleyk> you can do that
10:03:38 <nemo> ashleyk: although the -print0 would still be needed if you wanted to be cautious
10:03:58 <ashleyk> you can do piping and subshells inside the while loop?
10:04:00 <nemo> and that syntax is naturally not portable, but number of times where that's mattered for me is close to 0
10:04:24 <nemo> ashleyk: I was just distinguishing between find | while and while… done < <(find)
10:05:05 <ashleyk> one loop to rule them all!
10:08:28 <James1138> ..."my precious"
10:08:38 <nemo> ashleyk: either one is totally fine, so long as the resulting behaviour is what were looking for
10:08:54 <nemo> ashleyk: it's true that the default subshell insulation is probably surprising to most people
10:09:09 <nemo> ashleyk: although not contaminating the environment outside the loop can be good too
10:09:11 <ashleyk> hmm yeah, i dont know a lot about it :p
10:09:13 <nemo> dunno. depends I guess
10:09:55 <ashleyk> whatever works is my motto
10:10:06 <nemo> ashleyk: well... your syntax (besidesb eing shell specific) means that variables created inside the loop are in same scope as parent process so - that means screwing with env vars inside the loop would apply to your parent shell too
10:10:23 <ashleyk> ah, right
10:10:34 <nemo> ashleyk: while, find | while confuses people due to their loop counters or whatever not making it outside the loop if they didn't echo them ☺
10:12:51 <ashleyk> heres another 'whatever works'
10:13:09 <nemo> ashleyk: | awk '{SUM+=$1}END{print SUM}' ← BTW, don't know much awk, but I use it for loop summation a lot ☺
10:13:10 <ashleyk> TSV format file reading: cat "$clientsFile" | while IFS=$'\t' read -r port client memo _
10:13:39 <nemo> ashleyk: yeah. that's probably the standard way to split a string into an array
10:14:19 <ashleyk> yeah bash is great...i dont do portable stuff :p
10:14:29 <nemo> $ grep IFS 2000_histoire/fetch.sh | head -n 1 IFS=: read -a COL <<< "$f"
10:14:48 <nemo> I was grabbing some episodes of a super interesting history program that was not good at podcasts
10:15:11 <ashleyk> about the french revolution? heh
10:15:14 <nemo> so step one of my munger went to their website and grabbed the html and parsed it, then this was the fetcher that turned it into something useful
10:15:22 <nemo> ashleyk: about all kinds of stuff really
10:15:43 <nemo> https://blog-histoire.fr/ there's a nicer fan site now
10:15:59 <nemo> but it did not exist 10 years ago
10:20:48 <ashleyk> nice, bbl
11:14:05 <premoboss> i have to parse the thr name of a file and extract the extention. it is easy to do cut -d "." -f2 if the filename is easy as music.mp3 or printme.ps, but how to do if a file is named crazy.name.for.a.file.avi?
11:14:07 <premoboss> in other words, i have to capture all the characters after the last "."
11:14:20 <premoboss> (if it exist)
11:15:28 <KatolaZ> premoboss: man basename
11:16:41 <KatolaZ> oh you want just the extension sorry
11:21:05 <nemo> premoboss: you using bash?
11:21:16 <premoboss> nemo, yes
11:21:31 <gnarface> premoboss: heard of "file" ?
11:22:08 <gnarface> (filename parsing to assume mime-type based on name doesn't solve for the issue of the file not having any extension)
11:22:17 <nemo> FILE=crazy.name.for.a.file.avi
11:22:19 <nemo> echo ${FILE##*.}
11:22:22 <KatolaZ> ls | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g'
11:22:26 <nemo> https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/string-manipulation.html
11:22:33 <KatolaZ> this doies part of the job
11:22:53 <gnarface> file super_late_fun_time.avi
11:22:53 <gnarface> super_late_fun_time.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 720 x 480, ~30 fps, video: FFMpeg MPEG-4, audio: Dolby AC3 (stereo, 48000 Hz)
11:23:00 <KatolaZ> 'cause it also prints the filename of files without an extension
11:23:16 <KatolaZ> sorry but I gotta go
11:23:33 <premoboss> tnanks all
11:23:59 <premoboss> thanks 2 all of yo
11:24:02 <premoboss> thanks 2 all of you
11:24:09 <gnarface> there's like a ton of ways to do this, but make sure you know for sure whether you actually want to know the file name suffix, or just the type of data it contains
11:24:23 <gnarface> since there's no guarantee those will match
11:24:43 <KatolaZ> but you can remove those with
11:27:32 <KatolaZ> ls | sed -r -e 's/(.*)(\.[^.]+)$/\2/g;s/^[^\.]*//g;/^$/d'
11:27:36 <premoboss> look, my goal is split filename to add a string inside: namefile.extension must became namefileMYSTRYNG.extention and if no extention exist, it must became namefileMYSTRUNG
11:28:05 <nemo> premoboss: why not just use rename?
11:28:31 <premoboss> nemo, because i didnt know it is possible to do with rename :-)
11:28:55 <premoboss> if it is possible, now i read man rename
11:29:06 <nemo> touch foo.bar foo
11:29:14 <nemo> rename 's/\./EXTRA./' foo*
11:29:18 <nemo> foo fooEXTRA.bar
11:29:46 <nemo> premoboss: then you just need to do the $ case
11:29:53 <nemo> you could do those in a single command but 2 might be safer
11:30:54 <premoboss> nemo what if therea re a name like this.is.my.file.avi? i need it became this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi
11:33:31 <premoboss> nemo, if I try your rename with 1.2.3.4.avi, it became 1EXTRA.2.3.4.avi, i neet it became 1.2.3.4EXTRA.avi.
11:33:49 <premoboss> i dont know how much "." can be inside the name of file.
11:35:34 <nemo> /tmp/test$ touch this.is.my.file.avi this_is_my_file_avi
11:35:40 <nemo> $ rename 's/(.*)\./$1EXTRA./' *
11:35:46 <nemo> $ rename 's/^([^.]*)$/$1EXTRA/' *
11:35:50 <nemo> this_is_my_file_aviEXTRA this.is.my.fileEXTRA.avi
11:38:56 <premoboss> nemo: no. i try to trell you better. the name of file can be whatever it is. can be or can be not an extention, can be one or more "dot" inside the name. i.e. file, file.txt, this-is_my.file.txt. then must became: fileEXTRA, fileEXTRA.txt, this-is_my.fileEXTRA.txt.
11:39:10 <nemo> and those patterns above would match both of those
11:39:12 <nemo> all of those even
11:39:21 <premoboss> ok, i will test immediately.
11:39:22 <nemo> how is my result not what you wanted
11:39:48 <premoboss> becayse i bad read yout text, sorry.
11:39:54 <Demosthenex> ok, ascii upgrade went pretty smooth... but how can i repeat the prompts for merging config files? my ipmi console was crap and i had to skip them
11:43:13 <gnarface> Demosthenex: just merge them manually
11:44:14 <Demosthenex> gnarface: i don't have a record for what was missed. i have least 3 that were at the prompt then ipmi disconnected and i had to blindly hit return
11:44:22 <gnarface> Demosthenex: the unmerged ones should be in /etc right along side the regular config with .dpkg-old or .dpkg-dist extensions (depending on whether the version is the pre-merge or packaged version)
11:46:11 <ashleyk> just got a intel nuc
11:47:05 <gnarface> Demosthenex: (i like to use emacs for large config merges, but i'm sure there are other tools to help too)
11:47:42 <James1138> Question about Devuan. A few months back, I installed "reportlog" - hoping to help (however small) in my own way those working on future version of Devuan. Is there anyway to find out if the reports are reaching the right people... or do I need just purge "reportlog" and try something else?
11:47:49 <Demosthenex> gnarface: i was hoping there was a tool like dpkg-reconfigure to repeat them :P
11:48:01 <Demosthenex> gnarface: guess i can just find /etc | grep dist
11:48:34 <gnarface> Demosthenex: i don't know that there's not, this is just always the way i've done it, because i like emacs better
11:48:50 <gnarface> it has a file merge feature with color-coding
11:48:54 <gnarface> guided
11:49:04 <James1138> I meant "reportbug" - sorry all!
11:49:14 <Demosthenex> gnarface: i'm already an aged emacser ;]
11:49:40 <gnarface> James1138: they should go here, i think. not sure if they're expected to show up immediately though, and i recall at least in the past someone having to change the reportbug config to make it work... https://bugs.devuan.org/
11:52:28 <James1138> Thank for the tip ganrface - I shall check out the link.
11:56:21 <ashleyk> is there a way that actually works to convert the netinstall iso to a flash drive
11:57:03 <gnarface> ashleyk: no need, it's special hybrid-iso
11:58:16 <Demosthenex> gnarface: what's your fav emacs diff mode? ;]
11:59:10 <gnarface> Demosthenex: i've been using M-x ediff-merge-buffers
12:01:12 <ashleyk> gonna try devuan for Nessus
12:01:46 <ashleyk> their supported distro list is really bad
12:15:38 <ashleyk> guess i bricked it already trying to disable secure boot
12:19:24 <gnarface> is that possible?
12:19:44 <gnarface> you can't even reset the bios settings?
12:19:55 <gnarface> pull the cmos battery out and count to 10 or whatever?
12:20:02 <ashleyk> yeah about to do the cmos jumper
12:20:24 <ashleyk> because the other methods didnt work
12:35:04 <ashleyk> but nooooooo they just had to shove uefi and secureboot down everyones throats
12:36:51 <ashleyk> thanks intel and microsoft
12:37:50 <ashleyk> when chip and os backdoors arent enough, go after the bios, then get your buddies to go after the OS, then takeover the kernel too, and do that!
12:38:23 <ashleyk> but i got it installing
12:39:05 <ashleyk> no ethernet detected though
12:40:11 <ashleyk> guess its not open code because of the backdoors in the ethernet
12:47:06 <Demosthenex> gnarface: thanks for the feedback
12:47:15 <Demosthenex> that upgrade went pretty smoothly all things considered
12:47:58 <gnarface> no problem, glad to hear it
12:53:05 <ashleyk> well the installer is trying to find ethernet
12:53:10 <ashleyk> and cant
12:56:12 <ashleyk> ah, linux isnt supported
12:57:34 <gnarface> ashleyk: you're probably just missing a non-free firmware package
12:57:38 <gnarface> i'm not sure which one
12:57:59 <ashleyk> should i try with the dvd iso ?
12:58:15 <gnarface> you should be able to load the package into the installer
12:58:23 <gnarface> or complete the install then copy the package over via usb
12:58:50 <gnarface> you just have to figure out which one it is
12:59:04 <ashleyk> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005499/mini-pcs.html
12:59:41 <ashleyk> probably not worth it actually
12:59:43 <gnarface> is it wifi you mean, or the wired ethernet that's not working?
12:59:52 <ashleyk> ethernet
13:02:24 <gnarface> oh, maybe you need the backport kernel because the hardware is that new
13:02:25 <gnarface> that's possible too
13:03:57 <ashleyk> or i just run windows 10 and network bridged vms
13:04:37 <ashleyk> problem is i need an x86 device to run nessus because they went closed source
13:04:48 <ashleyk> and dont provide arm compiles
13:05:00 <ashleyk> but all this new hardware is locked down for microsoft
13:25:12 <specing> ashleyk: stop using proprietary software
13:25:40 <ashleyk> i tried openvas, and its going the same direction
13:25:52 <ashleyk> also, it doesnt work
13:28:55 <ashleyk> i dont know how you can just take an opensource software and go closed source
13:30:27 <unixman> ashleyk, what about OpenVAS doesn't work? I'm curious because I was going to suggest that to our SOC.
13:30:42 <ashleyk> the CVE scanner doesnt work
13:30:50 <ashleyk> just the nmap part
13:31:12 <ashleyk> for me at least, the CVE scanner always says the host in unchreachable and its undebuggable. pinging the host works fine
13:32:15 <va7lnx> ashleyk: try disabling selinux on that openvas host.
13:32:26 <ashleyk> selinux wasnt installed
13:32:40 <va7lnx> hrm. I got nothing then.
13:33:21 <unixman> That does seem like a configuration thing to me though. What port(s) is it trying to hit?
13:33:24 <ashleyk> va7lnx, you have seen the "CVE" scanner work before? i cant even find any articles online about someone actually saying they use it or it works either. everyone is doing the other scan type
13:34:01 <va7lnx> ashleyk: I was doing a quick google search.
13:34:16 <va7lnx> anyhow. I have to get to class. 3 days left before finals. :\
13:37:26 <va7lnx> i get to drive from burnaby metrotown to coquitlam centre for one 2 hour class. *sigh*
13:37:48 <ashleyk> city life is a drag :p
13:38:34 <va7lnx> it's worse when skytrain goes from here to there, but takes twice as long.
15:16:29 <Digit> anyone know how to get xscreensaver to switch off the monitor after a while? in xscreensaver-demo's advanced tab, under "Display Power Management" there's standby, suspend & off, but i dont want to risk trying any of them in case they swich off my computer, rather than just stop my monitor emitting light.
15:20:15 <tuxd3v> xscreen saver adpaced tab
15:20:19 <tuxd3v> advanced
15:20:32 <tuxd3v> Dyspolay power managment
15:20:49 <tuxd3v> Quick power of in Blank only Mode
15:22:59 <gnarface> Digit: don't worry, it means dpms settings by that.
15:23:01 <tuxd3v> Digit, you are in Xfce right?
15:23:48 <Digit> tuxd3v: nope. just xmonad.
15:24:14 <tuxd3v> But you are using XScreen saver right?
15:24:28 <Digit> yes, that's what i'm asking about. xscreensaver.
15:24:34 <tuxd3v> advanced tab
15:24:40 <Digit> yes, that's what i said
15:24:43 <tuxd3v> then on Power Managment section
15:24:48 <Digit> yes, that's what i said
15:24:50 <tuxd3v> you have there a option
15:25:12 <tuxd3v> Quick Power off in Blank only Mode
15:25:19 <tuxd3v> activate it
15:25:21 <MinceR> Digit: those options only turn the monitor off
15:25:27 <MinceR> i use them daily
15:25:32 <Digit> thanks MinceR.
15:26:08 <tuxd3v> CRTL+ALT+l
15:27:15 * Digit hopes gnarface & MinceR are right. ~ sure he remembered those settings causing unwanted computer shutdown in the past
15:27:58 <gnarface> well, are you sure it wasn't a false positive? some of those screensavers aren't stable
15:28:22 <gnarface> the opengl ones cause stability issues with nvidia proprietary and also will suck your battery dry really fast
15:28:34 <gnarface> i recommend disabling them
15:28:40 <tuxd3v> I had some troubles with xscreensaver in the past...but it was my fault, becasue I choosed times to hibernate very shorts..
15:28:51 <tuxd3v> then I suffered a shutdown
15:29:24 <tuxd3v> Can we use Slim, has a screen saver type?
15:29:29 <tuxd3v> imagine
15:29:33 <tuxd3v> lock screen
15:29:46 <tuxd3v> is used dpms and goes blank
15:29:55 <gnarface> i'm not sure about that but e17 does have a built-in lock screen
15:30:02 <tuxd3v> touch any key, it activates with the slim session manager?
15:30:04 <Digit> typically i would just use galaxy. but i'll make sure the GL ones are off for this test.
15:31:34 <ashleyk> hola tuxd3v
15:31:46 <MinceR> xscreensaver has gotten really buggy lately, but i doubt it has code to shutdown the computer
15:32:07 <gnarface> lately? it's never been better. it's always been exactly this buggy.
15:32:24 <gnarface> at least from my perspective
15:32:36 <gnarface> but a lot really has to do with which actual screensavers you activate
15:33:00 <gnarface> they are of wildly varying quality and resource consumption
15:33:26 <MinceR> i haven't seen it blank its own window during password entry (without timing out) before
15:33:44 <MinceR> i could tell it's still there because it still constrains the pointer to its box and i can still unlock it
15:34:06 <gnarface> you mean you have seen that?
15:34:07 <MinceR> also, it realized its config file was overwritten before and reread it
15:34:16 <MinceR> then it stopped doing that and had to be told explicitly
15:34:17 <tuxd3v> Hi ashleyk
15:34:49 <gnarface> there are several xscreensaver-* packages in the repos. a couple of them are optional and i suspect they are where the more problematic screensavers are located.
15:35:20 <gnarface> i would especially be wary of xscreensaver-gl, xscreensaver-gl-extra and xscreensaver-screensaver-webcollage
15:35:20 <MinceR> i don't even use any modules, i have it set to blank or disable
15:36:01 * Digit goes for the test, blanking after 1m, standby after 2, suspend after 3, off after 4minues. ~~scared~~ ~~~ meditates ~~~
15:36:22 <gnarface> Digit: you did make sure you don't have sleep or hibernate timeouts for the machine set elsewhere, right?
15:36:31 <tuxd3v> MAn.. that times are very very short
15:36:34 * Digit pauses the test to check that
15:37:08 <gnarface> Standby: 305 Suspend: 306 Off: 307
15:37:11 <gnarface> system defaults in seconds^
15:37:15 <gnarface> for dpms
15:37:18 <tuxd3v> I havce
15:37:24 <tuxd3v> standby 30 minutes
15:37:33 <tuxd3v> suspend after 60 minutes
15:37:40 <tuxd3v> off after 120 minutes
15:39:12 <Digit> gnarface: nothing obvious in /etc/X11/xorg.conf where else might there be sleep or hibernate timeouts?
15:40:43 <gnarface> Digit: uh... acpi maybe? is it a laptop? some laptop brands have brand-specific packages and kernel modules too. maybe it could be in the window manager settings as well, though for xmonad i thought it was pretty minimal and didn't have such stuff. maybe you don't even need to worry about it, but i was just thinking of things that could give you false positives on your test
15:41:50 <DonkeyHotei> sleep/hibernate timeouts are part of the DE, no?
15:42:09 <gnarface> DonkeyHotei: sometimes, but i don't know for sure that's the only place they go.
15:42:22 <gnarface> er, the only place they can go
15:42:37 <DonkeyHotei> as for switching off the monitor, that's DPMS, which is part of the terminal
15:42:53 <gnarface> yea, he's got that part covered with xscreensaver
15:43:15 <gnarface> suspend/hibernate timeouts might also be exposed as raw files in /sys/ i think
15:44:07 <tuxd3v> Found it:
15:44:10 <tuxd3v> slimlock
15:44:21 <tuxd3v> its the way to lock screen on slim
15:44:28 <gnarface> interesting
15:44:38 * Digit returns from test
15:44:57 <gnarface> everything fine?
15:45:14 <tuxd3v> it works
15:45:19 <tuxd3v> very very nice!!
15:45:31 <tuxd3v> test it on shell typing
15:45:34 <tuxd3v> slimlock
15:45:38 <tuxd3v> amazing
15:45:47 <tuxd3v> beutifull simplicity
15:46:40 <Digit> hdmi monitor stays blue through standby, suspend, and off. dvi monitor does stop emitting light (cept the power light goes yellow, which is fine). (and my display power monitor's been broken for a while, so couldnt test). good to know my computer didnt enter hibernate or shutdown. :) thanks for your help gnarface & MinceR.
15:47:05 <buZz> 'xset dpms force off' -should- turn off your monitor
15:47:15 <buZz> if not, dpms isnt working well for you :)
15:47:20 <Digit> so, before bed, i just need remember switch off my hdmi.
15:47:38 <buZz> Digit: sounds like you're using a TV
15:47:42 <buZz> and not a monitor ;)
15:47:47 <buZz> TVs dont support DPMS usually
15:48:00 <Digit> xset dpms force off just made my monitors emit black, not actually off.
15:48:12 <buZz> Digit: it -should- turn them actually off
15:48:20 <buZz> incl backlights
15:48:46 <buZz> are you running the proper videodrivers for your graphics interface?
15:48:49 <Digit> dell 3008wfpt 30" monitors.
15:48:58 <buZz> (as in, not nouveau for nvidia)
15:49:14 * Digit nods, ~ straight nvidia
15:49:21 <buZz> i run official nvidia drivers on a gtx1060 , xset dpms force off turns my screens -off-
15:49:25 <buZz> incl backlights
15:49:36 <buZz> on DP, DVI -and- HDMI connectors
15:49:36 <gnarface> hmmm. HDMI might have an alternate feature available for turning the display off... HDMI CEC i think it's called?
15:49:37 <Digit> could just be my cheap monitors. :3
15:49:52 <buZz> Digit: none of my monitors costed more then 50 euro
15:50:09 <DonkeyHotei> CEC is different
15:50:13 <gnarface> Digit: it could be. it depends on where and when you bought them. but here in the US it's illegal to sell displays that aren't DPMS-enabled
15:50:36 <buZz> highly doubt those dell monitors -dont- support DPMS
15:50:59 <Digit> buZz: yeah, i got greedy, went for 30", 3 of them, ~ cheapest i could find, 2nd hand. i forget how much, but ... more than 50 euro anyway.
15:51:06 <buZz> i got a dell monitor here, supports DPMS fine
15:51:27 <buZz> a DELL P2412H
15:52:19 <gnarface> DonkeyHotei: i just brought up the CEC thing because there is cec-utils in the repos and i thought that if DPMS failed him it would be an alternative that didn't require getting up to push the power button manually
15:52:52 <gnarface> i guess i don't even know for sure that cec-utils package is actually the same thing as HDMI CEC
15:53:02 <gnarface> never touched it
15:53:23 <Digit> i wonder if there's just some settings in the monitor that i could meddle with, to stop it emitting blue... for the one connected with hdmi. *fiddles*
15:54:00 <gnarface> it's just bare HDMI right, no adapters?
15:54:28 <DonkeyHotei> not every nvidia card supports cec, either
15:54:30 <Digit> cable goes from hdmi to hdmi, monitor to card.
15:58:49 <hightower2> congrats on the conference
15:59:16 <Digit> oh. that caused me a half second panic thinking i'd missed it. n_n
16:01:16 * Digit gives up on figuring out how to get his hdmi connected monitor to stop going brightest blue instead of not emitting light, for this attempt now, happy enough making do with his "remember to turn it off before bed" workaround
16:02:20 <Digit> glad i can now fall asleep watching things on the middle monitor (dvi), n not have it glare light through the night
16:03:32 <gnarface> Digit: my projector does that too when all the inputs power off... you should be able to find a menu setting to change the color of that screen from blue to black or grey
16:04:04 <Digit> i'll have another rummage around in the monitor's settings trying to find it.
16:04:05 <gnarface> the hdmi connection must be going to sleep without making the monitor sleep
16:04:15 <gnarface> i'm not sure where the blame for that would be
16:04:52 <gnarface> but that probably means it has it's own menu settings for sleep timeouts too
16:07:57 <Digit> yikes. tried one setting i was unsure of, now the screen's super bright n tiny on the monitor. eep. and the menu wont come back. O_O
16:08:31 <Digit> oooo, and the other button i didnt know what it does changed it to full screen and non-superbright...
16:08:58 <gnarface> must be scaling for lower resolutions than the display native?
16:09:05 <Digit> ah, i see, that option in the menu just does the same as that other button. pbp setting.
16:13:01 <Digit> oh, nope. nothing in the menus for stopping it be blue.
16:13:04 <Digit> ah well.
16:13:32 <Digit> normal service resumes in #devuan. :)
16:15:08 <gnarface> Digit: well, the cheap ones have less features. it might still be worth consulting the manual though.
16:16:52 <Digit> yup. cheap ones. that seems to be the case. no option to have it not do that.
16:23:59 <misterunknown> ls -l
16:25:03 <Digit> no such dir
2019-04-04
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