Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

exponentialmatrix · 2025-11-05 23:55:06

lol, my question? the kernel has rust in it now. Doesn't that mean that the kernel it self has the same problem in regards to platforms supported?

Every now and then, there's a hype train that this or that will solve all of our problems. It was oop or garbage collectors a long time ago... this time it's rust. The no free lunch theorem says there's a price to pay somewhere.

replacing code that was battle tested for decades with new one just because the new language is magical is arrogance to 11.

zapper · Yesterday 00:39:39

@steve_v Only if you wish to be taken seriously.

Well given I have trouble taking you seriously, I find this hard to believe coming from you

bullshit

Hmm... edit: Seems I was wrong, C is in decline more than I thought. Although it is still one of the common ones used for building Operating systems, must be for a reason I believe

Speculation and baseless accusations. If you want to claim incompetence, provide example "bad" code.

Well I don't know what code is made by rust, so I cannot say anything here

Citation needed.

Not really, OpenBSD has been known for picking good standards long before other operating systems have.

So... yeah

Code examples (demonstrating the language itself is at fault) or GTFO. That's all you do... Besides talk smack about things you clearly don't understand.
There's an old adage, goes something like this: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk."
Which are you?

I have something equally as helpful as all your replies to me have been in the past

Your face. That's the seriousness you deserve as a clown.

Last edited by zapper (Yesterday 01:08:18)

steve_v · Yesterday 02:23:26

exponentialmatrix wrote:

the kernel has rust in it now. Doesn't that mean that the kernel it self has the same problem in regards to platforms supported?

Of course. The whole 3 ancient architectures that are a "problem" have been using old kernels and custom patches so far, but whichever way you slice it their days are numbered. Nobody really cares, because the only productive use for such machines is as museum exhibits.

@zapper I'm not about to legitimize that childish outburst with a meaningful reply, if the best you have is "but your face" we are done here. Go back to kindergarten.

zapper · Yesterday 03:16:33

@steve

@zapper I'm not about to legitimize that childish outburst with a meaningful reply, if the best you have is "but your face" we are done here. Go back to kindergarten.

That's high praise!

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn · Yesterday 06:43:28

light reading before bedtime.

https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_borland

more:

https://winworldpc.com/product/borland-pascal/7x

https://winworldpc.com/product/delphi/1x

https://winworldpc.com/product/borland-c/20

https://winworldpc.com/product/borland-c-builder/1x

fun/other:

AI Borland

Richard Karn

Tool Time

edited, couldn't resist:

Pamela Anderson / Tool Time Lisa / Baywatch CJ Parker / Barb Wire

In 2017, during the Second American Civil War, Barb Wire owns the Hammerhead, a nightclub in Steel Harbor, "the last free city" in a United States ravaged by the war.

Last edited by stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn (Yesterday 06:56:59)

Duke Nukem · Yesterday 11:14:42

the best developed most secure OS is OpenBSD

Citation needed

Common knowledge. It is not easy to find hard data or criteria, but security is its main focus. I have a connection with a well-known IT security consultancy (not going to name it), and they use it for their servers for that reason. Not recommended for general usage however, FreeBSD is preferable for that if you are going for Unix.

steve_v · Yesterday 18:01:03

Common knowledge.

Argumentum ad populum.

zapper · Yesterday 18:51:50

@steve_v don't worry, I forgive you for being hardheaded. I know someone just like you, he always thinks he is right and has to chew me out for everything I do wrong.

So I am used to this shtick.

exponentialmatrix · Yesterday 22:06:08

i'm sure the openbsd guys will switch to rust.

zapper · Yesterday 22:59:08

@exponentialmatrix

Not from what Hyperbola devs have told me.

Although if this is true, they are dragging their feet on it for whatever reason.

I tend to think given their stance of perfectionism, they probably think people who need rust need training wheels type mentality. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding of what I would think they would say.

I have observed their anger before and heard about their toxicity towards people who fall out of their vision of what they want.

So... yeah.

They really focus on code correctness and yet they use C for much of it anyways and what I said before.

Btw, I do agree with you on the part you said above about there is always a cost and that battle tested code being switched to another language doesn't solve everything.

Probably would make a bigger mess.

And yeah its arrogance to at least 10 out of 10 with 10 being the most

Last edited by zapper (Yesterday 23:02:13)

steve_v · Today 08:59:37

i'm sure the openbsd guys will switch to rust.

Likely well after every other BSD has, and one little bite at a time. FreeBSD has been arguing about allowing rust in base-system for a while (random typical example), but OpenBSD is conservative enough that they'll almost certainly wait and see how it goes there before even considering it.

In any case, the real arguments from devs and core maintainers (as opposed to the usual uninformed zealotry from joe-internet-rando in both camps) are more to do with the additional toolchain / build-times / maintainer workload than any of rust's supposed *magic security fixing* properties, "new"ness (or whatever idiotic, uninformed, non-technical objection zapper is still banging on about) or cult-like following.

Much as with rust in Linux, the debate among those at the coal-face is far more akin to "Rust can reduce common memory-management bugs, we should use it for (select) stuff where that's valuable" vs. "Multi-language codebases are a pain in the arse to maintain and I have much work already, if you want to do that, ensure you don't make a mess and/or make it my problem."

Rust is, after all, just another programming language. It's a programming language with better safeties on the common footguns than C, but one can write bad code in pretty much anything if so inclined. Hell, there's a bunch of low-level stuff you simply can't do in rust without some variety of 'unsafe foo ()', at which point the *safety magic* is off anyway.

---

zapper wrote:

chew me out for everything I do wrong

Oh, the huge manatee.

When all you bring to a discussion is speculation based on personal "beliefs" or vague "someone once said" hearsay, random insults and outbursts of spite, and unsubstantiated value-judgements... Right or wrong really isn't the question, it's simply noise.

As for arrogance... No, the 10/10 arrogance award goes to people who shit on someone else's choice of tools and call them "newbs", without the slightest idea what it is they do, how to do it, or why choice of tool might matter to them.

Does one who does not know how to plumb (let alone in copper) trash-talk plumbers over their preferred brand of flux or filler rod? Would you listen to them if they did?

zapper wrote:

I am used to this shtick.

So maybe stop inviting it, by properly researching things before opining loudly and spitefully on them and the character of anyone who uses them?
Ya know, like the way "don't judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes" maps pretty well onto "don't judge a programming language until you have written some code with it"?

Also,

Linus Torvalds wrote:

I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended.

I should probably thank you for the entertainment, it's not like there's much else going on around here.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 10:07:21)

EDX-0 · Today 13:45:32

ah so nice to see the useful and constructive conversations are still ongoing on

exponentialmatrix · Today 16:55:03

I'll take that over reddit mods or patronizing mods over moderating.

Danielsan · Today 18:17:18

While I am not an expert, what I see is not a technical reason but instead an Ubuntu employ that needs to follow an internal agenda and he is steering Debian toward Ubuntu needs. Also the attitude in the communication sounds corporative-style.

Perhaps this change requires more involvement, perhaps there was already a committee (and I missed it); but even though he is the APT leader, he is touching a place that involves all the other maintainers:

If you maintain a port without a working Rust toolchain,
please ensure it has one within the next 6 months, or
sunset the port.

Are they trying to decimate thousand of packages?
Ubuntu has interest in it; it does already only taking care of a subset of the original Debian repositories and throw all the rest into universe; lesser package to handle is lesser burden.

Besides, in my insignificant experience, every time I need to compile some software in GO or RUST, their constantly requires tons of libraries that are external to Debian, it is going to be the same? Will Debian have a few components that will temporarily download external libraries in order to compile each package?

🤷♂️

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#26 2025-11-05 23:55:06

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#27 Yesterday 00:39:39

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#28 Yesterday 02:23:26

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#29 Yesterday 03:16:33

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#30 Yesterday 06:43:28

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#31 Yesterday 11:14:42

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#32 Yesterday 18:01:03

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#33 Yesterday 18:51:50

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#34 Yesterday 22:06:08

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#35 Yesterday 22:59:08

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#36 Today 08:59:37

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#37 Today 13:45:32

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#38 Today 16:55:03

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

#39 Today 18:17:18

Re: Hard Rust requirements for APT from may next year

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