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#1 2017-10-11 02:20:56

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 279

Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

I hate to say this, but I've found my new daily driver, and it has replaced my own MiyoLinux. big_smile  yikes  smile

Devuan Ascii LXQt

I've been using it now for about two weeks, and I'm blown away with it.

If anyone is adventurous and would like to build your own, here is how I built mine...

Use a Devuan netinstall .iso for this. First things first...

1. You must upgrade from Jessie to Ascii to use LXQt.
2. Due to some conflicts with systemd, you will need a different login manager instead of sddm...I use lightdm.
3. Due to some conflicts with systemd, you will also need to install an additional shutdown utility; such as, qshutdown or obsession. Both work, but I use qshutdown.

During installation of the Devuan netinstall, when you get to the screen; in which, you choose a desktop, REMOVE ALL of the checkmarks and continue.

After the installation finishes, you will then boot into the CLI, and from there, you will upgrade to Ascii, and install the packages needed for your minimal LXQt system...allowing you to install the software you want on your system.

Once installation is finished and you've rebooted into the CLI...

1. Sign in with the username and password that you chose during installation.
2. Enter the command... su ...to become root, then enter the Root password that you chose during installation.
3. Enter the command... nano /etc/apt/sources.list

Now, I always add contrib and non-free to the sources.list; however, in addition to that (if you choose to do so), you'll need to change the sources from jessie to ascii. So, use your arrow keys to navigate the sources list, and backspace to erase words. When you've finished making changes, you'll need to save the file by using...

CTRL + x (to close the file)
y (to save the file)
Enter (to return to the CLI)

Next we need to run the commands...

apt-get update

...followed by...

apt-get dist-upgrade

When a dialogue opens asking about restarting services, I always answer Yes. So, just use your arrow keys to move the highlight over to Yes, then hit Enter on your keyboard.

When the upgrade has finished... REBOOT NOW!

This will ensure that you boot into the new kernel without having to possibly change it later.

Just enter the command...

reboot

After that reboot, you'll enter the CLI again and start installing your packages. Sign in again with your username and password...
Enter the command...

su

...then enter the root password...

You're now ready to install the packages needed for your your minimal LXQt desktop.

Here are the list of packages needed...and the order in which I install them with...you may wish to adjust this to your needs/preferences...

apt-get install...

firmware-linux (fixes my resolution/ and gives me my wireless needs)
lightdm
pcmanfm-qt
obconf-qt
qterminal
juffed
compton
compton-conf
breeze-icon-theme
breeze-cursor-theme
kde-style-breeze
qshutdown
hibernate
upower (if you want the battery icon in the panel)

For sound...either...

alsa-utils
...or...
pavucontrol-qt

synaptic
gdebi
wicd
lxappearance
lxappearance-obconf
lxqt --no-install-recommends lxqt-sudo

The following are my personal preferences to add...

pcmanfm
xarchiver
zip
leafpad
gtk2-engines-murrine --no-install-recommends

After everything is installed, enter the command...

reboot

...to boot into the new LXQt desktop. Then, install whatever you want on your system.

Why did I install lxappearance, lxappearance-obconf, pcmanfm, xarchiver, zip, leafpad, and gtk2-engines-murrine?

Lxappearance will make GTK apps look good on LXQt!
PCManFM-Qt is a dependency of LXQt, but it's a pain to use as root. So I use the regular PCManFM instead.
Xarchiver is my preferred archiving app (zip is needed for it).
Juffed is a qt text editor, but I prefer the simplicity of leafpad.
Gtk2-engines-murrine will help the GTK apps look better with the pre-installed themes.

Please remember, the native Logout option works on LXQt, but the other options don't, so I use qshutdown to shutdown, reboot, etc. You could also use obsession if so desired to shutdown/reboot...

Hope I have been thorough enough! Have fun!

PS: I also replaced udev with eudev. Instructions are here on the forum.

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2017-10-14 18:31:14)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#2 2017-10-11 10:49:50

FOSSuser
Member
From: Surrey/Hants border UK
Registered: 2016-12-11
Posts: 167

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

I hate to say this, but I've found my new daily driver, and it has replaced my own MiyoLinux. big_smile  yikes  smile

lol I 'deserted' a while back to Vuu-Do, Mr GreenJeans & I seem to like the same simple system. big_smile

(But you started the ball rolling with Openbox. wink )

Last edited by FOSSuser (2017-10-11 10:50:55)

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#3 2017-10-11 14:28:09

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 361
Website

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

There is too much shifting around here.  I think miyo tried Artix, the live had LXQT, which I don't like, and he liked it.  Now he is using LXQT on ascii, and I'm running Artix-testing with openbox and obmenu-generator.
Meanwhile my miyo-frankenstein-ascii with sid packages and Linux4.13 runs better than ever, to the point I'm shifting back into miyo-ascii-enstein and laying off the artix.

times are a-changing

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#4 2017-10-11 14:49:21

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 279

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

FOSSuser wrote:

I hate to say this, but I've found my new daily driver, and it has replaced my own MiyoLinux. big_smile  yikes  smile

lol I 'deserted' a while back to Vuu-Do, Mr GreenJeans & I seem to like the same simple system. big_smile

(But you started the ball rolling with Openbox. wink )

fungus wrote:

There is too much shifting around here.  I think miyo tried Artix, the live had LXQT, which I don't like, and he liked it.  Now he is using LXQT on ascii, and I'm running Artix-testing with openbox and obmenu-generator.
Meanwhile my miyo-frankenstein-ascii with sid packages and Linux4.13 runs better than ever, to the point I'm shifting back into miyo-ascii-enstein and laying off the artix.

times are a-changing

Maybe I should have started a Confessional thread? LOLOLOL!!!


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#5 2017-10-13 23:27:54

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 27

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

Hi MiyoLinux

Thank you for your msg concerning Far East languages! I will test it tomorrow as it is to late today! MiyoLinux! As I did not know what it is, I did look at your profile and find this thread.

My last installation (before Devuan) was an ubuntu installation like you describe!

I did install it directly in Korean language although I don't know that language but only will learn it a bit. I did made an netinstall of Ubuntu as the Ubuntu community supplies a very small netinstall iso based on only two files vmlinux and initrd.img, so that, different from Debian, it yet possible to install after a frugal start from harddisk with those 2 files (not directly from the iso: from the iso, it is also possible, but, depending on the bios settings on your PC, it is possible that BIOS refuses to give you the writing right at installation time, so that you can start the installation but not install and discover this mistake at the end of the installation: nothing did happen! From vmlinuz + initrd.xyz, no problem! But the use of my installation, analog to yours above, did not satisfy me, because, as it was on Korean, I did select cryptage... and making it, the PC is terribly slow (perhaps because I use a main own directory outside of /home/~ ? The PC has to transfer, crypt and decrypt, a lot of long files?).

It was very difficult to find a friendly session manager. Slim goes as well as lightdm. I would have prefer ssdm (was installed in the precedent installation and I was happy as it is very easy to change divers little things). And I did install lxqt. In mixtur with lxde, it was not good.

different of the most users probably, I did install lxqt on jwm! it is perfect as jwm ist alone yet a very complete environment (starts background picture itself, xlm management of tray, easy to add etc direct in a text without a front end that not permit some things; jwm can manage icons if used by it itself, chars and have a clear areal StartupCommand to add directly some commands like setxkbmap ;-) ...

the use of jwm instead of OB is perfectly supported. I did let the bar from LXQT at the bottom and set an minimal tray hidden at the head of the screen, very usefull as menu from Debian does not recognize all installed software (it is analogue in Devuan!) and you can install in seconds an icone for them in the tray of JWM (I did not find the way for all in LXQT; add an item in /usr/share/application and draw it in the bar from LXQT did not work for all! I have yet the problem today in Devuan Jessie: I actually use Seamonkey, Midori, Luakit and Xombrero. Only luakit appear in the Debian menu made in /etc/jwm/debian.menu ! But it is so easy to add items in JWM, as well in the /etc/jwm/system.jwmrc as in the tray...).

as I prefer in all cases rox-filer, i think about the eventuality to use it directly as session manager, or, as puppy-linux makes, in combination with jwm, as it is possible to get the prepared debian menu in /etc/jwm but there is no adequate correspondent thing for rox as rox and Debian systems are not really loving reciprocally (perhaps it would be possible to use ratpoison: combined with menu + 9menu, ratpoison can manage both menu and transmit to other session managers! but as far I know, it can not offer a background picture without some help like feh etc. ... it great force is don't to need some mouse at all, of course. and also to be very small).

for restart:

CMD+ALT+F1
after that CMD+ALT+DEL ;-)

shutdown -h now, of course in terminal.

editor: nano! nano does not need some defined row lenght, different from the most CLI editors! and pressing the wheel, you can port marked text from nano to other application else if they are graphic mode applications (but the mouse emulator for cdo line as to be installed of course!

different from sc, nano writes in commando line complexe fonts like hangul, and can interact with them also in graphic mode!

Last edited by oui (2017-10-14 07:34:32)

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#6 2017-10-14 16:27:04

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 279

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

oui wrote:

Hi MiyoLinux

Thank you for your msg concerning Far East languages! I will test it tomorrow as it is to late today! MiyoLinux! As I did not know what it is, I did look at your profile and find this thread.

My last installation (before Devuan) was an ubuntu installation like you describe!

Hi oui! To save space, I didn't give your full quote, but I wanted you to know that I saw your post. smile Isn't it amazing what can be done with Linux?!?!? Thank you for your input!

To all others, I edited the OP to add another package needed...

upower

...if you want the battery icon to show in your panel.

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2017-10-14 18:33:12)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#7 2017-10-14 17:37:27

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 361
Website

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

I think it is time to quit your day job.
People are dumping ubuntu for miyo!
Let me know when you'll start hiring smile

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#8 2017-10-14 18:38:46

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 279

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

fungus wrote:

I think it is time to quit your day job.
People are dumping ubuntu for miyo!
Let me know when you'll start hiring smile

L...O...L!!! Unfortunately, I'm just a guy who has figured out a few things.

I remember when I first started using Linux. It wasn't because I wanted to; it was because I had to. Our circa-Windows Vista computer became unusable. It was either do something (install Linux) or have no computer.

I didn't know what I was doing, but I somehow got Ubuntu installed on it. It was so slow, but it was better than nothing. At that time, I knew nothing about RAM, CPU, firmware, hardware, etc... (the computer had less than 1 GB of RAM...no wonder Ubuntu didn't perform too well). I eventually installed Zorin Lite, and it did much better.

I remember asking a few questions on some Linux forums and being told that I needed to...

cd into this

chroot into that

I didn't have a stinkin' clue what they were talking about, and I was treated like I was an idiot because I didn't miraculously know...bunch'a stinkin' jerks they were! LOL! big_smile

So, what I've learned has been through a lot of internet searches, a whole lot of trial and error, and the occasional person who would actually help.

I remember what it's like not having a clue what someone means when they say, "You need to cd into  __________, then blah blah blah."

Soooooo...I try to remember that when (and if) I'm able to help someone. Many times, the person may not need the extra information, but I remember what it was like when I just wanted someone to tell me what I needed to do. I don't give a rip for these people who won't answer a question UNLESS the person asking has already searched google or their forums (cough cough Arch for example). Stinkin' google isn't always right, and keywords don't always turn up what you need.

Anyway...I'm still learning myself! LOLOLOLOL!!!

...and if I didn't say stinkin' enough times...here it is again...

stinkin'

wink

...and if I've offended anyone with this post...get a stinkin' backbone. big_smile

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2017-10-14 18:41:05)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#9 2017-10-14 18:56:31

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 361
Website

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#10 2017-10-15 18:20:40

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 361
Website

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

I think I was wrong with my assumptions of the independence of QT.
With my firefox and sid experimentation firefox didn't really ask for much.  I realized though that after 3-4 year lag and about a year of qupzilla2 being uninstallable that now it is finally installable in sid (and ceres).  The big difference is that qupzilla 2 for 3 years now has spellcheck when 1.8 didn't. 

So I tried the installation of qupzilla from the sid repository to see what it depends on (I knew of some libwebkit5 stuff) and WOW!!!
It wanted to get rid of eudev, sysvinit, and a whole bunch of core devuan stuff and install among 30 other things systemd!
This is a browser based on Qt that is supposed to be not just system independent but even desktop independent.
So all these tied up chain is based on QT stuff that are linked to systemd. 

So, I think qt needs a close up look and maybe it is not as innocent.  Or is it that debian links all this together as a chain?
The same exact package on Devuan now is intallable and it only brings in a couple of other files, webkit5 and some libwebkit...

I am stunned!  This means that most of Qt stuff will be further delayed before it makes its way from Debian to Devuan.

WHY would a browser require direct access to system devices and how would firefox not need this much but a 3rd class project like qupzilla would be so hw intensive?  Back to palemoon?  I feel I've been running in circles.

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#11 2017-10-16 10:06:15

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 98

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

fungus wrote:

I think I was wrong with my assumptions of the independence of QT.

That's often the case with assumptions.  Qt, as with many so called "open Source" projects, has corporate entanglement and allows commercial licensing.  However...

fungus wrote:

So I tried the installation of qupzilla from the sid repository to see what it depends on (I knew of some libwebkit5 stuff) and WOW!!!
It wanted to get rid of eudev, sysvinit, and a whole bunch of core devuan stuff and install among 30 other things systemd!
This is a browser based on Qt that is supposed to be not just system independent but even desktop independent.
So all these tied up chain is based on QT stuff that are linked to systemd.

It's important to understand how dependency resolving package managers work.  Debian's in particular is a complex mass of dependency chains, with fragmented packages (usually one source package builds many smaller packages, rather than one big binary package), meta packages, dummy packages, etc.  It's designed to pull in and resolve all dependencies for all use cases, it's not designed to make ideological decisions, for example it's not going to cater to people who don't like gnome or don't like software from a certain developer - and as you're mixing repositories it's not surprising that things don't work as intended.  And as Debian is to all intents and purposes a systemd (+gnome) distribution, it's no surprise at all that it pull in systemd.

fungus wrote:

So, I think qt needs a close up look and maybe it is not as innocent.  Or is it that debian links all this together as a chain?

It's the second one - a Debian (or distribution specific) issue.  The dependency chain will "link back" to, mostly freedesktop.org, userland components which will link to systemd userland components, which in turn pull in systemd itself.  This is because packages were built with systemd flags enabled and so in order to produce a working system for everyone, those systemd depencencies have to be listed in the package's control file.

The Debian approach to leaving out systemd is to run it with systemd-shim as far as I know?  This means it's acceptable to install systemd in all cases, but not run it as the init daemon ("PID 1") if the user has installed a different init system (this is probably what equates to 'init choice' for some).  This is why your mixture of Devuan and Debian unstable, while it works for now, will ultimately fail.  You will - at some point - hit a nasty broken dependency, where the only solution is some in depth 'package management foo'.

Rather than installing stuff from Debian's unstable branch, I suggest that you might be better off porting the newer upstream releases of your top favourite software over to Devuan (building from source and packaging them).  This allows better control over dependencies - especially with respect to systemd - installing binary packages from another distribution gives you no control at all.

fungus wrote:

The same exact package on Devuan now is intallable and it only brings in a couple of other files, webkit5 and some libwebkit...

Of course.

Last edited by cynwulf (2017-10-16 13:39:16)

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#12 2017-10-16 14:07:45

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 361
Website

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

Very informative comment.  It is mainly the contrast of how easily firefox was installed and how qupzilla required half the system replaced.
The way I see things is that I identify a core-system as 1st level, X-graphic-DM-DE as 2nd level, and pkgs on top of 1st or 2nd level as the 3rd level.  So as long as the infrastructure 1st level remains solid, I can mess with 2/3rd level pkgs.  I wish it was easier to identify the levels when dependencies are pulled in and out, but that is my attempt.

I also undertand your explanation of debian's chain dependency, it just seems that it is suspiciously extreme to get a game pkg to play sudoku and it requires a specific init system and device management.  It is an extreme example that may not be true but I think you get my drift.

Last edited by fungus (2017-10-16 14:09:13)

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#13 2017-10-16 14:35:44

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 98

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

It's not that simple and there aren't really levels.  In Debian based systems there isn't a "base system" as such, everything is a package and only 'essential' packages could be regarded as a "core" of sorts (and not even a kernel is considered essential - though as I recall you're warned if your current system doesn't have one).  systemd transcends what you would regard as "core system", desktop stuff / userland automation and networking, etc, etc.

In the case of 'qupzilla', at a glance, it seems to pull in the whole Qt kitchen sink.  libsystemd0 is also part of that dependency chain.  I didn't go in depth, but there may be other systemd dependencies for the package, as packaged for Debian unstable.

Firefox on the other hand isn't (or wasn't) toolkit dependent and is more monolithic.

Last edited by cynwulf (2017-10-16 14:36:06)

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#14 2017-10-16 20:13:09

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 361
Website

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

Well, this is why I am warning Miyo about LXQT, it may be harder to deal with than the good old trusty lxde.

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#15 2017-10-16 21:17:59

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 279

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

fungus wrote:

Well, this is why I am warning Miyo about LXQT, it may be harder to deal with than the good old trusty lxde.

Thanks fungus. So far, LXQt has done great! It's light, fast, stable, and a workhorse! smile

Check this out. First will be from the LXQt build; in which, I've installed all of the things that I want and need to use.

root@miyo-lxqt:/home/dan# uname -a
Linux miyo-lxqt 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.51-1 (2017-09-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux
root@miyo-lxqt:/home/dan# find / -name systemd*
/etc/systemd
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.pm
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.desc
/usr/share/lintian/data/systemd
/usr/lib/systemd
/var/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd
root@miyo-lxqt:/home/dan# dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libsystemd0:amd64                    232-25+deb9u1  

Now, here's my very basic Miyo-XTRA. This is on a separate partition, and I use it to solely do all of my online banking and/or shopping. The only package that I've added onto the basic installation of this Miyo is Firefox-ESR...

root@miyolinux:/home/dan# uname -a
Linux miyolinux 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.43-2+deb8u5 (2017-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
root@miyolinux:/home/dan# find / -name systemd*
/etc/systemd
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-control.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.service.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.8.gz
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.desc
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.pm
/var/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-settle.service
/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
root@miyolinux:/home/dan# dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libsystemd0:i386                  215-17+deb8u7                      i386         systemd utility library

That pesky udev...


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#16 2017-10-17 08:05:29

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 98

Re: Miyo (Make it your own) Devuan LXQt

I don't think looking for the grep'ing for the string "systemd" is going to to yield anything useful.

/etc/systemd, /lib/systemd and /var/lib/systemd are directories.

Anything in /usr/share/man/ is irrelevant as are the lintian files

/lib/systemd/system/* seems like files (services?) relating systemd/udev?

None of the above are binary as far as I know.

The only binary is libsystemd0, which is essentially useless cruft without systemd installed.

I suppose it's the same with any package, you get cruft which relates to software you don 't use and don't install.

udev is, of course, part of the systemd source.

Last edited by cynwulf (2017-10-17 08:05:41)

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