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aluma

Member

Registered: 2022-10-26

Posts: 533  

Re: Debian Farm?

Where it all began - the need for systemd was presented as a means of speeding up loading, while simultaneously launching several services at once. They even came up with a special program that showed the loading time of each one.
The goal is wonderful, Winxp loaded faster then.

What have we come to?
One computer, openSuSe 15.5 with systemd and Daedalus 5.0 with sysv, the same DE and functionality.
The boot time from the start from the grub menu to the WM user selection menu is the same, on my old computer it was 35 seconds.

But Win7(8) still loads faster.

Danielsan

Member

Registered: 2020-07-14

Posts: 172  

Re: Debian Farm?

Poor Debian constantly grabbed in the middle of Boogle and Cononical businesses... 😖

Last edited by Danielsan (2024-01-08 15:54:16)

The-Amnesiac-Philosopher

Member

Registered: 2023-08-24

Posts: 250  

Re: Debian Farm?

Interesting how things progress.

Personally, I'm not really bothered by how long a system takes to start up or shut down.

If I needed to do something on my computer now, Now, NOW...I should have turned it on earlier...or not shut it down in the first place.  However, I can't recall when an extra +/- 30 seconds was detrimental to my life (although I am Amnesiastical).

I just don't want "things" forced on me.

P.S. Nor do I watch 10-second fake entertainment TikTok videos.   I tried it once...just to see what all the hub-bub was about. It was the worst minute of my life.

This isn't against Uncle aluma's OP...just throwing it in for what it's worth.

JWM-Kit

Member

Registered: 2020-06-29

Posts: 117  

Website

Re: Debian Farm?

But Win7(8) still loads faster.

Does it? or is it just that windows lies and hibernates when you tell it to shutdown.  Compare the boot time from a real cold start.  You probably already know this, but  holding down the shift key when you press shutdown will shut down windows for real.

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quickfur

Member

Registered: 2023-12-14

Posts: 202  

Re: Debian Farm?

Windows boot times on a laptop are generally short because it's usually hibernated rather than fully shutdown.  If you do a full shutdown and cold restart, you will probably see significantly longer load times.

Linux also has a hibernation feature merged in, IIRC, but last time I checked, the implementation is iffy because it only saves the OS state, not the current state of hardware devices. So once it comes back up, device drivers might get into the wrong state because the hardware isn't in the expected state from when the system was last hibernated.  That was years ago, though, I don't know if the situation has improved since.

aluma

Member

Registered: 2022-10-26

Posts: 533  

Re: Debian Farm?

@JWM-Kit

Does it? or is it just that windows lies and hibernates when you tell it to shutdown...

Have you tried checking it yourself?

Ok, let's be specific.

I gave the boot time for Linux on my old computer, GIGA-BYTE GA-945GCM-S2L motherboard, E8400 3.0 GHz processor, Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB 7200rpm 16MB WD3200AAKS 3.5 SATA II hard drive.
The computer turns off from the power supply; it does not know any sleep modes from birth.

On the same computer, Win7 is installed on a Samsung 80GB 7200rpm 8MB hard drive (HD080HJ).
Its boot time from pressing the grub menu to the loaded desktop (not to the user selection prompt, after which the desktop still loads as is the case with Linux) is 30 seconds.

stultumanto

Member

Registered: 2023-12-12

Posts: 56  

Re: Debian Farm?

The computer turns off from the power supply; it does not know any sleep modes from birth. smile

The issue JWM-Kit references likely doesn't affect you if you're running Windows 7. As far as I can tell, Windows' "fake shutdown" "fast startup" was implemented starting in Windows 10.

For those unfamiliar with this "feature," here's how it works. When you tell Windows 10+ to "shut down," it just... lies to you. It instead invokes sleep state S4, aka hibernation or suspend to disk. Whether or not you pull the plug at this point has no bearing, as power is not required in S4, because the system state has been saved to non-volatile memory. If you want Windows to actually shut down, you need to hold down Shift when you select the shut down option. Fast startup can also be permanently disabled in Power & sleep settings.

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn

Member

Registered: 2023-11-27

Posts: 73  

Re: Debian Farm?

re: fake shutdown / fast boot / fast startup / hibernation / sleep / etc

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation_(computing)#Microsoft_Windows

has been available in some form since microsoft windows 95...

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boughtonp

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2023-01-19

Posts: 206  

Website

Re: Debian Farm?

Hibernation is different to the "Fast Startup" (i.e. fake shutdown) which arrived with Windows 8.

//techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-performance-team/windows-8-windows-server-2012-faster-boot-process/ba-p/375131

It does not exist in Windows 7.

That all three OSes mentioned boot slowly on an old computer containing 2008 spinning drives shouldn't be a surprise - even if WD3200AAKS usually has better performance than Samsung HD080HJ, there are plenty of factors which might account for the reported 5 seconds difference.

Anyhow, if people want to discuss boot times, might I suggest a distinct dedicated thread (with some degree of methodicalness applied).

Last edited by boughtonp (2024-01-10 15:29:44)

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aluma

Member

Registered: 2022-10-26

Posts: 533  

Re: Debian Farm?

Good health to everyone!
I'm doing great, we are more writers than readers.

Therefore, I will repeat what I wrote in my post above

Where it all began - the need for systemd was presented as a means of speeding up loading, while simultaneously launching several services at once. They even came up with a special program that showed the loading time of each one.

From this point of view, I would be interested to see comparisons of the loading speed of different alternative init systems.
Win is of little interest to me; on a computer with i7, SSD and Win8 the difference is even more noticeable (but you need either a stopwatch or something similar to measure fractions of a second).
This is easier to measure on an older computer.

But from a purely practical point of view, ten seconds of loading is not a problem for me; I’m more concerned about the number of running system processes.

Last edited by aluma (2024-01-10 16:41:55)