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#26 2019-07-06 20:39:18

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 326  
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Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Ron wrote:

Why would these apps depend on libpulse0 especially since a lot of people on Linux don't use Pulseaudio?

The only people who don't use Pulseaudio these days are hair-shirt minimalists, all the desktop environments have PA as a dependency because it provides a convenient high-level interface for controlling how multiple sources are connected to sinks.

For example, almost all new laptops have HDMI outputs and if pure ALSA is used then it is necessary to configure it to make the inbuilt speakers work, most non-technical users don't know how to do that and so need PA to do it for them.


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#27 2019-07-06 22:49:36

Micronaut
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Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 50  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Ron wrote:

Why would these apps depend on libpulse0 especially since a lot of people on Linux don't use Pulseaudio?

The only people who don't use Pulseaudio these days are hair-shirt minimalists, all the desktop environments have PA as a dependency because it provides a convenient high-level interface for controlling how multiple sources are connected to sinks.

For example, almost all new laptops have HDMI outputs and if pure ALSA is used then it is necessary to configure it to make the inbuilt speakers work, most non-technical users don't know how to do that and so need PA to do it for them.

I would have thought, with all the resentment there was for it even before the same author embarked on the systemd dumpster fire crusade, that it would have been avoided with the same loathing. That's why my initial post. Why would that be in a distro specifically created to get around mini-Bill and his work? Has it really become stable and reliable? It never was in the past. Did some other authors take over and essentially rewrite it?

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#28 2019-07-06 23:02:28

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Posts: 326  
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Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Micronaut wrote:

Has it really become stable and reliable?

Yes.


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#29 2019-07-23 20:53:37

czeekaj
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Registered: 2019-06-12
Posts: 20  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

I use only ALSA just for simplicity sake. I only use one output so ALSA does that perfectly. 
It's like using an ipod Classic to me, using a single headphone jack and nothing more. Seems more direct and I hear complaints of Pulse of latency. However, it's probably impossible to notice.

And when you remove pulse it's unfortunate you have to have a un-usable mixer in Xfce menu, just wasting space lol. When all you needed was a terminal for alsamixer.

Last edited by czeekaj (2019-07-23 20:55:12)

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#30 2019-07-24 12:17:07

PedroReina
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From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2019-01-13
Posts: 83  
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Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

czeekaj wrote:

And when you remove pulse it's unfortunate you have to have a un-usable mixer in Xfce menu, just wasting space lol. When all you needed was a terminal for alsamixer.

The packages volumeicon-alsa and gnome-alsamixer worked for me in your issue. I dont need the Pulse Audio mixer in XFCE.

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#31 2019-07-27 10:36:39

thierrybo
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Registered: 2017-11-11
Posts: 43  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

kapqa wrote:

H_o_a_S .. thanks for the clarification . I am not sure if Firefox 60 ESR would still work with alsa-only, but 52 probably does. Tried apulse (for firefox and skype if i remember correctly) but i didn't seem a stable solution.
Anyway, i am still using FF52.9 ESR because some extensions i rely on are no more compatible with the newer versions of FF.

I use Devuan without PA and Firefox with apulse for 2 years now and I didn't have any issue.

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#32 2019-08-07 20:37:13

ToxicExMachina
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Registered: 2019-03-11
Posts: 138  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The only people who don't use Pulseaudio these days are hair-shirt minimalists, all the desktop environments have PA as a dependency because it provides a convenient high-level interface for controlling how multiple sources are connected to sinks.

That's not true.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

For example, almost all new laptops have HDMI outputs and if pure ALSA is used then it is necessary to configure it to make the inbuilt speakers work, most non-technical users don't know how to do that and so need PA to do it for them.

On every laptop i seen ALSA provided built-in speakers working by default. There is no need to configure ALSA. PA is useless garbage devouring CPU and screwing sound.

Last edited by ToxicExMachina (2019-08-07 20:37:38)

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#33 2019-08-07 21:05:12

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 326  
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Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

ToxicExMachina wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The only people who don't use Pulseaudio these days are hair-shirt minimalists, all the desktop environments have PA as a dependency because it provides a convenient high-level interface for controlling how multiple sources are connected to sinks.

That's not true.

Which desktop environments do not have PA as a dependency?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you know better than all those silly DE developers but they do seem to like PA.

ToxicExMachina wrote:

On every laptop i seen ALSA provided built-in speakers working by default. There is no need to configure ALSA.

From my laptop with my custom configuration for ALSA removed:

E485:~$ apt policy pulseaudio
pulseaudio:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 12.2-4
  Version table:
     12.2-4 500
        500 https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
E485:~$ aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: Generic [HD-Audio Generic], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: Generic [HD-Audio Generic], device 7: HDMI 1 [HDMI 1]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: Generic [HD-Audio Generic], device 8: HDMI 2 [HDMI 2]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: Generic_1 [HD-Audio Generic], device 0: CX20753/4 Analog [CX20753/4 Analog]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
E485:~$ speaker-test                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

speaker-test 1.1.8

Playback device is default
Stream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 1 channels
Using 16 octaves of pink noise
ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1108:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
Playback open error: -2,No such file or directory
E485:~1$ 

As you can see the HDMI output is the default and I have no sound from the internal speakers.

EDIT: speaker-test output added.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2019-08-07 21:06:31)


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#34 2019-08-08 08:23:17

Geoff 42
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Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 277  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

ALthough it took a little while to find the answer for HDMI devices showing up before the one you wish to use, the answer is a one liner.
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=110572#p525601

Geoff

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#35 2019-08-08 09:50:02

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 326  
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Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Thanks Geoff42, that's very helpful smile

The method I use is

E485:~$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/alsa.conf                                         
options snd-hda-intel index=1
E485:~$

It's also possible to use ~/.asoundrc to set the default card, antiX has a tool that will do this to switch cards in their PA-free desktop.

See also https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ad … ive_method

So yeah, ALSA by itself can be a tricky little devil. Which is why PA is so omnipresent.


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#36 2019-08-08 13:31:28

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,255  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Pulseaudio is a dependency for the XFCE desktop, if you don't want it then use a simple window manager instead;

XFCE gets pulseaudio through a chain of Recommends. It's not a hard dependency, and it's easy to avoid it. Just install without recommends. I haven't checked, but it's probably the same for the other desktops.

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#37 2019-08-08 14:17:14

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Posts: 326  
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Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Yes, you're right. XFCE has a dependency on libpulse0 but that only recommends pulseaudio itself. The GNOME desktop has a hard PA dependency though, perhaps unsurprisingly. No need to remove it anyway: just stop it from starting if you don't want it, as noted by dxrobertson earlier in this thread.

My point was that all the standard desktop environments include PA even if it's as a recommended component rather than a dependency per se.


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#38 2019-08-09 21:07:36

ToxicExMachina
Member
Registered: 2019-03-11
Posts: 138  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Yes, you're right. XFCE has a dependency on libpulse0 but that only recommends pulseaudio itself. The GNOME desktop has a hard PA dependency though, perhaps unsurprisingly. No need to remove it anyway: just stop it from starting if you don't want it, as noted by dxrobertson earlier in this thread.

My point was that all the standard desktop environments include PA even if it's as a recommended component rather than a dependency per se.

GNOME also has a hard SystemD dependency via logind and its developers consider X11 as deprecated graphical subsystem. There is no doubt: GNOME is extremely terrible DE by design, UI and UX.

Really good DE such as TDE and LXDE don't depend on PA.

Most of "standard" DE include PA by default as recommended component not for a good reason. The reason is simple: PulseAudio is SystemD of world of sound.

Last edited by ToxicExMachina (2019-08-09 21:11:34)

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#39 2019-08-16 06:35:44

SmokeyGrey
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Registered: 2019-04-15
Posts: 17  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Pulseaudio can safely be removed from the default install with

apt-get purge pulseaudio

Note that you need to purge, not just remove. Pulseaudio leaves behind some config files that mess with a pure alsa settup, which cause audio devices to mute and unmute incorrectly.

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#40 2019-08-18 21:08:14

Micronaut
Member
Registered: 2019-07-04
Posts: 50  

Re: PulseAudio? Seriously!?

Yeah, I've seen that used in Ubuntu years ago. But wasn't sure how far along the "integration" of all the various components had gone. Systemd is impossible to dispense with now if you want Gnome. Sooner or later I'm going to try purging Pulseaudio and maybe reinstalling ALSA to correct anything broken. Still struggling with some other tweaks, though. smile

Last edited by Micronaut (2019-08-18 21:09:00)

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