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#1 2018-01-20 09:53:01

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

I have been having an interesting exchange on http://discourse.appimage.org regarding AppImage dependencies. I have run into the problem that AppImages refuse to run on Devuan derivatives due to lacking dependencies. There are a fair amount and a bit of a bear to track down each one, so I thought that I would post a link to the exchange: https://discourse.appimage.org/t/musesc … 4bit/279/6 The final post provides a list of those dependencies that the host systems are expected to take care of.

The potential that I see for AppImage and Devuan is that I am reasonably confident that AppImages will never pull in systemd, unlike with snaps or flatpaks that very likely could draw systemd as a dependency in the sandboxed group of dependencies.

I hope this helps the Devuan team and anyone else interested in keeping a systemd free system.

Last edited by devuan_dk_fan (2018-01-20 09:55:49)


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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#2 2018-01-20 22:22:26

Somewhat Reticent
Member
Registered: 2017-04-06
Posts: 102  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Follow to github for full list - and many 'workarounds'.

Does their version of 'mainstream' exclude Slackware?

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#3 2018-01-20 23:46:51

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

In general, I detect a certain amount of disdain these days for non-commercial Linux distributions. A narrowing of minds appears to be occurring within the sector of the Linux community that supports systemd. I dare to predict that the next major battle for hearts and minds will take place around a replacement for X11. Just search the KDE Neon for "i3" and you will discover that the Neon team originally excluded the possibility of switching DEs/WMs because the consensus was that most alternative WMs will not survive the switch to Wayland. While that may be true it doesn't preclude new WMs that can work with Wayland in the future!


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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#4 2018-01-21 04:19:07

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 631  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Thanks for reporting this. I tried looking for some of those dependencies in the repos, and the few I tried weren't there. MiyoLinux uses only Devuan repos. I'll look into seeing about possibly including them in the future if they're easily tracked down and installable. I'm sorry it didn't work out of the box for you.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#5 2018-01-21 07:55:46

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Nice to hear from you smile You are doing a great job with MiyoLinux, as are all of the developers of other "spins", and much appreciated. I think that the plethora of spins is part of what makes the Devuan community vibrant and will hopefully draw new users to Devuan based systems.

I have experimented a bit with AppImages and found that all of the ones that I have tried, worked out of the box with a bog standard Devuan install, so I can confirm that everything necessary is in the official repos. A little tip, the AppImage that I have found so far with the largest amount of dependencies is the AppImage version of MuseScore musecore.org. I think the dependency issue is just a matter of not cutting into the bare metal, when doing a spin, or maybe including a disclaimer with a list of possible dependencies needed for running AppImages smile

All the best...

Last edited by devuan_dk_fan (2018-01-21 07:57:04)


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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#6 2018-01-21 17:25:12

Geoff 42
Member
Registered: 2016-12-15
Posts: 177  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

I knew nothing about AppImage, so went and had a look. VLC would play some music but failed with a video. Anyway I tried MuseScore and it wanted PulseAudio. It would run, but would not play the notes, so I tried it with apulse, as in :-

apulse ./MuseScore-2.1-x86_64.AppImage

and it was much happier and would play the notes.

Geoff

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#7 2018-01-21 17:28:08

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Cool smile


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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#8 2018-01-22 20:28:56

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 631  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

devuan_dk_fan wrote:

Nice to hear from you smile You are doing a great job with MiyoLinux, as are all of the developers of other "spins", and much appreciated. I think that the plethora of spins is part of what makes the Devuan community vibrant and will hopefully draw new users to Devuan based systems.

I have experimented a bit with AppImages and found that all of the ones that I have tried, worked out of the box with a bog standard Devuan install, so I can confirm that everything necessary is in the official repos. A little tip, the AppImage that I have found so far with the largest amount of dependencies is the AppImage version of MuseScore musecore.org. I think the dependency issue is just a matter of not cutting into the bare metal, when doing a spin, or maybe including a disclaimer with a list of possible dependencies needed for running AppImages smile

All the best...

Strange. Perhaps I make MiyoLinux too minimal? Like Geoff 42, I've never even tried an .appimage until seeing this thread. Perhaps it's something in my minimalist approach in how I build Miyo that's leaving out certain libraries needed for .appimage to work. I have an idea of what to change, but whether that will work or not...hmmm...

I haven't checked the jessie repos, but I do know that musescore is available in the ascii repos...but that doesn't help the current Miyo-i3 situation which is based on jessie. I'm so sorry for your trouble.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#9 2018-01-22 22:28:08

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

No worries smile I always use the latest MuseScore AppImage partially because I sometimes run into dependency issues, partially because MuseScore has a MIDI issue that has been dogging them for a long time, that they don't seem to be able to stamp out. Sometimes when playing a score, there is a lot of static/feedback noise that makes it unbearable to listen to what you have written, which kind of is the point of MIDI playback in the first place smile

BTW, I would like to advertise another posting of mine on the forum, that I am not getting any response on:

"Vanilla KDE Jessie Devuan system prompts for USB pen drives." I still haven't been able to figure that one out yet, and now I am testing a vanilla KDE Jessie Devuan install both on a laptop as well as on a home built tower computer, so it would be nice to get it sorted.


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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#10 2018-01-23 03:07:11

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 631  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

devuan_dk_fan wrote:

No worries smile I always use the latest MuseScore AppImage partially because I sometimes run into dependency issues, partially because MuseScore has a MIDI issue that has been dogging them for a long time, that they don't seem to be able to stamp out. Sometimes when playing a score, there is a lot of static/feedback noise that makes it unbearable to listen to what you have written, which kind of is the point of MIDI playback in the first place smile

BTW, I would like to advertise another posting of mine on the forum, that I am not getting any response on:

"Vanilla KDE Jessie Devuan system prompts for USB pen drives." I still haven't been able to figure that one out yet, and now I am testing a vanilla KDE Jessie Devuan install both on a laptop as well as on a home built tower computer, so it would be nice to get it sorted.

devuan_dk_fan,

I just got the MuseScore Appimage to work in the Openbox version of MiyoLinux. It should work in the i3 version too. Here's what I did...read all of this before proceeding.

VERY IMPORTANT: OPEN PCMANFM WITH YOUR TERMINAL, AND LEAVE THAT TERMINAL OPEN DURING THE WHOLE PROCESS.

1. I downloaded the .appimage and made it executable by opening another terminal in the Downloads folder and used the command...

chmod u+x MuseScore*.AppImage

Just to be sure (since I've never used an .appimage before, I right-clicked the .appimage, went to properties, and changed the Execute permissions to "Anyone".

I then double clicked the .appimage. The open terminal showed me the initial error. I was missing libvorbis something-or-other. That's what was throwing me off a few days ago, because it was showing something like libvorbis.so.3 (don't quote me on that). When I searched previously for those items from the list you provided, I was searching for libvorbis.so.3...that's why nothing was showing up for me when I searched the other day.

2. I opened Synaptic, and I searched for libvorbis.

I was given a result. Unfortunately, I didn't pay attention initially, because this was all hit-n-miss for me. Here are the items that are now installed with libvorbis in their names...I can't remember which one I initially installed, but the other two were pulled in with it.

libvorbis0a
libvorbisenc2
libvorbisfile3

3. Double-clicked the .appimage, and got another error of a missing dependency. This happened 3 more times (a total of 5 times). Each time, I searched Synaptic for the leading verbage of the missing dependency. Here's what I installed in addition to the libvorbis item(s)....

libsndfile1
liborc-0.4-0
libpulse0
libxslt1.1

After installing those dependencies, I double-clicked the .appimage, and it opened. big_smile

I didn't go any further to see if it would play, because I don't know a thing about it tongue . MiyoLinux doesn't include PulseAudio by default, so if you're still on Miyo-i3, you may have to install PulseAudio or try Geoff 42's tip.

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2018-01-23 20:13:42)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#11 2018-01-23 03:26:05

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 631  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

I'm going to try this on Miyo-i3 just to make sure it works. I'll report back with more definitive dependency names and the order that they appeared during the process.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#12 2018-01-23 04:30:10

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 631  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

MiyoLinux wrote:

I'm going to try this on Miyo-i3 just to make sure it works. I'll report back with more definitive dependency names and the order that they appeared during the process.

devuan_dk_fan,

OY! i3 doesn't work like Openbox as far as showing me the missing dependencies! tongue

Now I remember why Openbox is my first choice with i3 second. LOLOLOL!!!

I didn't get the "errors" in i3's terminal like I did in Openbox. However, here are the dependencies (and the few items they pull in) that you'll need to install according to how they are shown in Synaptic...

libvorbisfile3
libsndfile1 (this will actually pull in the third "libvorbis" dependency)
libpulse0
libxslt1.1
liborc-0.4-0

After installing those dependencies (I used Synaptic), the MuseScore .appimage will open in i3.  big_smile  Make sure to read my post above about the possible need for PulseAudio...

Now I have to figure out why i3's terminal doesn't show the errors like the Openbox terminal...


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#13 2018-01-23 19:57:46

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 631  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Okay...I figured out why the terminal in i3 wasn't showing me the dependency errors. I had a brain jerkdown last night and forgot what I did in the Openbox trial installation.

I made a very...VERY basic Openbox installation to test it on. I didn't have anything but the basic right-click menu. So what I did was open PCManFM with the terminal from that menu. That terminal was the one that I left open, and it was that terminal that was showing me the dependency errors.

Once PCManFM was open, I navigated to the Downloads folder and opened a terminal there to make the MuseScore .appimage executable. Then, everytime I clicked on the .appimage to try and open it, the original terminal would show me the dependency error(s).

I just now removed one of the dependencies for the .appimage in i3 and tried it following those steps, and it worked the same. The original terminal showed the missing dependency.

This isn't ideal, but if anyone reads this thread because you're having trouble opening an .appimage in MiyoLinux, follow these steps...

1. Open your terminal and use it to open PCManFM

Leave that terminal open.

2. Navigate to the .appimage and open another terminal in that folder to make it executable

I also right-clicked the .appimage and changed its Execute permission to Anyone

3.  Double-click the .appimage

You'll be asked if you want to Execute it. Click Execute.

4.  The original terminal will show you the missing dependency

It may show something like...

/tmp/.mount_VwG71Z/bin/mscore-portable: error while loading shared libraries: libpulse.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

The "libpulse.so.0" is the missing dependency. However, the leading "libpulse" is what is needed to be installed. I used Synaptic to search for and install each dependency. For example: libpulse0 was the name of the actual dependency as shown in Synaptic.

With MuseScore, it took 5 dependencies...I had to click the .appimage 5 times to find each one. After finding and installing the dependencies, it opened. WHEW! tongue

Sounds like a lot, but it only took a couple of minutes...if that long.

Edited to add: I went back and edited my original instructions in case a reader doesn't make it this far in the thread. wink

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2018-01-23 20:17:59)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#14 2018-01-28 11:54:19

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Geoff 42 wrote:

I knew nothing about AppImage, so went and had a look. VLC would play some music but failed with a video. Anyway I tried MuseScore and it wanted PulseAudio. It would run, but would not play the notes, so I tried it with apulse, as in :-

apulse ./MuseScore-2.1-x86_64.AppImage

and it was much happier and would play the notes.

Geoff

Interesting, I just tried with apulse, and MuseScore note playback is greyed out sad However, I am at this time trying MuseScore with a Vanilla Devuan minimal install with Trinity on top. Trinity uses aRts as default for sound, but apulse installed fine. Not sure if TDE is using it however. I posted in the MuseScore forum and the only reply was to install PulseAudio. I am not sure they know or care what Trinity is, so even if I installed PulseAudio, I am not sure that MuseScore would play back notes unless TDE was using PulseAudio instead of aRts. Unfortunately, I don't know if that is possible without compiling Trinity to use PulseAudio from source code.


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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#15 2018-02-01 16:24:19

devuan_dk_fan
Member
Registered: 2018-01-10
Posts: 90  

Re: AppImage and Devuan (special note for derivatives such as MiyoLinux).

Trinity works OK with PulseAudio (?). I installed PA and lost all sound. It was suggested on the Trinity mailing list that I install pavucontrol and check my settings, but that didn't help. I ended up running:

rm -r ~/.config/pulse; pulseaudio -k

to get things working. Now I have a configuration where Trinity is using Alsa and MuseScore is as happy as a clam, as PulseAudio is intstalled. I don't claim to understand it, but it works, which is the important thing.

----

I should note that this was my tower computer experience, but I never had to run the above command on my laptop.

Last edited by devuan_dk_fan (2018-02-01 16:25:34)


Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx

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