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#1 2017-11-15 23:37:00

TwistedFate
Member
Registered: 2017-11-15
Posts: 2

Kept back packages when updating

Hello folks, for some time now I have been seeing that some packages have been kept back from updating when doing "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade". As time went by, the list became bigger.. I am wondering what could cause that since now I have a lot of packages being kept back. I am using Devuan Ceres if it matters, any ideas what could be wrong?

The following packages have been kept back:
  binutils binutils-dev blender blender-data build-essential calibre calibre-bin chromium clang-3.9 clang-4.0 cmake cmake-data cpp cpp-6
  dconf-gsettings-backend dconf-service debconf debconf-i18n dh-strip-nondeterminism dirmngr e2fslibs e2fsprogs ffmpeg g++ g++-6 g++-6-multilib
  g++-multilib gcc gcc-6 gcc-6-base gcc-6-base:i386 gcc-6-multilib gcc-multilib gettext gir1.2-freedesktop gir1.2-gdkpixbuf-2.0 gir1.2-glib-2.0
  gnupg gnupg-agent gnupg2 gpgsm gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad-dbg guile-2.0-libs isc-dhcp-client lib32asan3 lib32gcc-6-dev
  lib32stdc++-6-dev libasan3 libavcodec57 libavcodec57:i386 libavdevice57 libavfilter6 libavformat57 libavresample3 libavresample3:i386
  libavutil55 libavutil55:i386 libclang-3.9-dev libclang-4.0-dev libclang-common-3.9-dev libclang-common-4.0-dev libclang1-3.9 libclang1-4.0
  libdconf1 libfile-stripnondeterminism-perl libgcc-6-dev libgdal20 libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0:i386 libgdk-pixbuf2.0-common
  libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev libgirepository-1.0-1 libglib2.0-0 libglib2.0-0:i386 libglib2.0-bin libglib2.0-dev libgnutls-openssl27 libgnutls30
  libgnutls30:i386 libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-0 libharfbuzz-dev libharfbuzz-gobject0 libharfbuzz-icu0 libharfbuzz0b libharfbuzz0b:i386 libidn2-0
  libjs-sphinxdoc libllvm3.9 libllvm4.0 libmediainfo0v5 libobjc-6-dev libopenimageio1.7 libpostproc54 libpsl5 libqt5core5a libqt5dbus5
  libqt5designer5 libqt5gui5 libqt5network5 libqt5opengl5 libqt5positioning5 libqt5printsupport5 libqt5qml5 libqt5quick5 libqt5quickwidgets5
  libqt5sql5 libqt5sql5-sqlite libqt5svg5 libqt5webchannel5 libqt5webengine-data libqt5webenginecore5 libqt5webenginewidgets5 libqt5webkit5
  libqt5widgets5 libqt5x11extras5 libqt5xdgiconloader2 libqt5xml5 libspice-client-glib-2.0-8 libspice-client-glib-2.0-dev
  libspice-client-gtk-3.0-5 libstdc++-6-dev libswresample2 libswresample2:i386 libswscale4 libva-dev libvdpau-va-gl1 libvdpau-va-gl1:i386
  libwww-perl libx32asan3 libx32gcc-6-dev libx32stdc++-6-dev libxine2 libxine2-bin libxine2-ffmpeg libxine2-misc-plugins libxine2-plugins
  llvm-3.9 llvm-3.9-dev llvm-3.9-runtime llvm-4.0 llvm-4.0-dev llvm-4.0-runtime lvm2 lxqt-policykit mpv mutt ndiff nmap ntfs-3g python-pil
  python-pyqt5 python-pyqt5.qtsvg python-pyqt5.qtwebkit python-sphinx python-webob python3-docker python3-pyqt5 python3-pyqt5.qtquick
  python3-pyqt5.qtwebchannel python3-pyqt5.qtwebengine python3-pyqt5.qtwebkit python3-requests python3-sip python3-urllib3 qemu-efi
  qt5-gtk-platformtheme rsyslog sphinx-common spice-client-gtk valac youtube-dl

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#2 2017-11-16 09:53:11

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 118

Re: Kept back packages when updating

TwistedFate wrote:

I am using Devuan Ceres if it matters

It does.  Running the unstable distribution assumes that you know what you're doing.  If you don't know the basics, it's best to run the stable distribution.

If you run a dist-upgrade instead of an upgrade, that will be the next step, but not necessarily the end of your problems.

Last edited by cynwulf (2017-11-16 09:53:32)

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#3 2017-11-16 10:20:12

TwistedFate
Member
Registered: 2017-11-15
Posts: 2

Re: Kept back packages when updating

cynwulf wrote:
TwistedFate wrote:

I am using Devuan Ceres if it matters

It does.  Running the unstable distribution assumes that you know what you're doing.  If you don't know the basics, it's best to run the stable distribution.

I don't necessarily know what I am doing. I learn as i go. The main reason for using the unstable is because it offers fresh graphics driver/components.

cynwulf wrote:

If you run a dist-upgrade instead of an upgrade, that will be the next step, but not necessarily the end of your problems.

Next step as in, it might pull in those packages that are kept back?

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#4 2017-11-16 10:45:16

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 457
Website

Re: Kept back packages when updating

The way I understand it is:

$apt upgrade    just checks the edition numbers of pkgs and updates the ones with lower number

$apt-get dist-upgrade    follows what the edition you are on and what it prescribes as necessary and unnecessary
So going from jessie to ascii repositories with apt upgrade you are still on jessie with updated packages
The real ascii and ceres comes with dist-upgrade

Dist upgrade will also bring a new kernel whilst apt upgrade will not.  I believe since 3.16 doesn't even exist in ascii when it is updated in jessie you will be stuck with the older version (including bugs and security problems).

I would recommend you step back and go to ascii instead of ceres then do dist-upgrade.  When I run ceres it run ok, but I was told that nobody was working on it.  Also remember that ceres would make sense in the feature when ascii becomes stable and beowulf squeezes in between the two. 

I am so happy to get my refracta Ascii openRc running today after experiencing some weird X-intel-gfx problem fixed with a little bit of firmware, I can't have enough of it.

Last edited by fungus (2017-11-16 10:45:46)

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#5 2017-11-16 11:41:10

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 118

Re: Kept back packages when updating

That's not quite how it works.

Despite it's name, "dist-upgrade" won't upgrade the system to a newer release.

Normal 'upgrade' upgrades packages without removing anything. (it will "hold back" on upgrading packages which could result in removals)

dist-upgrade will aggressively remove packages to ensure it fully upgrades all other packages to the latest version in the repositories.  This is why dist-upgrade is used for the "second phase" oldstable to stable upgrade.  Every upgrade in unstable is pretty much a major upgrade, hence why dist-upgrade is the preferred method.

Refer to apt-get(8)

dist-upgrade
In addition to performing the function of upgrade, this option also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones, if necessary.

The next step is when everything breaks...

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#6 2017-11-16 13:30:47

fungus
Member
From: Any witch way
Registered: 2017-07-12
Posts: 457
Website

Re: Kept back packages when updating

That is what I meant by necessary and unnecessary.  It adds packages and throws packages away, as dependency structure has changed.  I In my experience though it will not throw kernels away, it will keep them unless you purge and autoremove. 
After seing this debate go on elsewhere, on the differences of apt and apt-get, there seems to have been a shift in debian on the roles and use of them.  In synaptic if you check the preferences there are three options, default upgrade, smart, and "ask me everytime".  The default seems to be plain upgrade, the smart is dist-upgrade.  It is good to be conscious of what you choose, because if you switch around repositories then getting smart may get you in real trouble.

The weird and unexpected result in Debian was under the above assumptions going from wheezy to debian jessie and not doing dist-upgrade, just upgrade, should result in a wheezy with many updated packages, no new installations.  But wheezy's apt is not the same apt, picks up jessie's desease and wants to bring it onboard.
Switching wheezy to ascii or even ceres, updating, upgrading apt first, then run a dist-upgrade and you are on devuan 100%.  It was even quicker and easier than from Debian 8.

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#7 2017-11-16 15:29:26

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 118

Re: Kept back packages when updating

kernels usually don't get removed due to no packages actually depending on them.

With other packages, particularly in unstable, some major ABI change can result in apt-get wanting to remove half the system when you issue a dist-upgrade.  Not running a dist-upgrade regularly on an unstable system usually results in the system getting further and further behind, until it's no longer easily upgradeable.

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#8 2017-11-16 16:50:00

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 380

Re: Kept back packages when updating

TwistedFate, if after performing the dist-upgrade, you are met with errors regarding dependencies, try running...

apt-get -f install

Then run dist-upgrade again.

If met with dependency errors again, repeat the -f install again, followed by another dist-upgrade. Repeat the process until you no longer receive dependency errors.


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