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#1 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-07-01 08:51:23

TJ-2 , TYPSET and RUNOFF , roff , Troff , TeX etc seem essentialy non-interactive text formatting programs (with increasinigly more typesetting functionalities as we move closer to the present).

All man pages i've seem seem suitable for tty. No diagrams, pics , math types. So it seems man pages currently still use text-formatting suitable for tty typed display devices. Since todays we have also display devices types with better resolution (called pixel) (*) surely it makes sense to have some sort of man page capable of containing info for both.

There is a pattern here. New display/input devices will always come along. In the context of helpsystems @ do we keep help systems along in their initial form ? Do we add carefully support for new display types ?

Let's ponder on that... Do we have TTYs ? No. We have displays of  /visual/granularity/pixel type that can ALSO mimic o TTY's  (of /visual/granularity/text  type) . BUT if you wear glasses or visual displays are not our preferred types then that means that even if we dont have TTYs we need TTY's compatible data outputs. And surely most sysadms of devuan use mostly TUI shells .

So even if the display tech (input tech seems little behind it seems :-) ) changes it seems there are ways of computing that dont die . Ways of computing suitable for diferrent ages , different computers users , a11y oriented  etc .

So framing the current state  : Manpages are currently alinged mostly  for a tty display type  and  text oriented processing type of computing workflows . One could say that that aligns better for programmers and sysadmins. (so no worries?) . But wouldnt help if you could see a nice table , diagram or datatype structure ?  Or wouldnt help IF the manpage  systems could have a certain display flexibility. Containing a data core easily presented in most display types (haptic,visual,sound) and data that can have preferable display types ? 

Helpsystems could have various traits having lightweigth ones and heavy ones .

Also likewise why not using interactive tools (an emacs mode? ) to create man pages more easily.

(email MIME @ ) .

(*)(pixel cons @) Trying to do animation on pixel level more creators come to realise that editing to pixel level is time-devouring .Personal but.. you need structure , types to allow reusability-composability. Not only you can be cutoff from others but even you can not even reuse your own work . The issue ofcourse is not the granularity of the display tech so much (that should be generic) but different ways of doing computing .

#3 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-30 08:29:06

I have created Devuan wiki page titled Help to new users   : @

I present the wiki page as testing showcase of how i think a wiki could relate to various help systems used from Devuan Project.
I have transfered some ideas presented here there. Tell me if you dont like ideas trasnfered there.

In a few words a wiki (remote text-collaboration website) could be a  slow-paced user-admin workflow integrator incubator. That would position it (as a help system) in the opposite direction from a fast-paced-critical im or irc helpsystem-channel. In my test page at the top there a category tag. There a wiki user could see all user related efforts to formulate related workflows and express opinion on a user usefullness gradient and collaborate on a consensus building common wikipage.

So if you find the idea promising you could

  • ask wiki admin onefang in the irc #devuan-wiki to create an account for you .

  • create a personal wiki space @

  • post on a  wikipage your worklow and

  • link it to the same category [[!SharingFiles]].  @

All these are personal views-ideas. I am a user of the Devuan wiki.
For my general views : HelpSystemSemantics @

#4 Off-topic » Proposing a a11y and aging friendly user init. » 2026-06-27 12:28:59

chomwitt
Replies: 5

Proposing a user-init that could use more flexible the IO hardware connected to a personal computer offering various types of sessions aligning better with the preferred IO types of the user.

So the same user could prefer processes that are sound|haptic|visual-pixel|visual-vector|text|tty|chemical centered.

The user init would then prioritize compatible shell (eg: sound shell) and compatible display servers (eg: haptic display server) and start other display servers only at the request of the user.

One user-init-system would tie all these processes. If visual-impaired user , or a tty oriented user decides to execute a pixel-oriented-visual process (mpv playing a video) (assuming there is that output device) on the display screen that could happen with a process with the same RUID.

A user could change the preferable user init IO type. So system could in next login ask password through a  sound device and land you to a sound enabled shell.

- (user init) Hi User. I see you have a printer. May i propose a 1960s retro unix session to remember how Ken and Dennis used the computer back then ?

- (user init) Hi User. Happy birthday. How it feel to be 90? Your visual acuity must getting downhill.. Would you prefer a sound session today with some 80s text adventures using your haptic display to feel the images?

- (user init) Hi User. Fancy playing pixel perfect games today? I could start a suitable display server to rock your visual sensors!

So a user session would be comprised of processes with different IO types . Each output device type would need it's server since many process could need access to them. A user-session it tied to the user that initiated it.  To be his/hers  s(he) must have control of life and death of it's processes.

Starting a session the  system should do testing  to establish good comm lines with the prefered - choosen IO types and establish fallbacks. Necessary precaution to ensure control of the whole process tree in case of errors or misbehaving apps that cant communicate effectively through preferred comm channels. User should be able to kill all his/her process from his/her prefered input type. In wost case user could start init in a handshake mode:

- (user init/handshake mode) Hi User. Seems you need help! Feel again with all your senses . I will engage all possible output / input channels. State your preferred ones.

#5 Installation » Proposing an a11y & aging installer-login » 2026-06-27 11:33:11

chomwitt
Replies: 0

proposition / a11y from the start .

prerequisites: The personal computer node should have haptic features that enable inserting live install media from users with different preferable sensor types / aquity level . User should have the physical media or have a computer with the installer running with poweron.

Installer should probe the user in a dialogue to agree on the preferable UI-display-input typed to use. Installer would probe first the hardware to see available UI devices .

So eg:
- (Installer) Hi User. Look,feel,hear all you devices of your computer. In you computer there are these output display types and these input types. State your preferences.

- (Installer) Hi User. Do you suffer from RSI ? I could install packages that prioritize input from less hand stressing devices.

Aligning with stated preferences the Distro should prioritize software tagged approprietely. For example : If a user states Display:Haptic Input:main-Sound,fallback braille keyboard then the Distro should install packages that can align with that choice. So in that case there is would be need for X11 but a haptic-display-server that can mediate access to that kind of device for different haptic friendly processes.  If a user states Display/Visual/Text oriented  distro could prioritize tmux over X11 and userspace land that can align with that. 

The core idea here being that all IO hardawe could be used but the installer would prioritize packages aligning with the prefered interaction styles.

#6 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-27 09:28:13

+1 for @EDX-0's proposition / linux or devuan new users /  fresh install (or liveISO) / 'welcome' app.

Some additional propositions  :

@chomwitt's proposition / welcome app / add a chatbot backend tied to an irc local client . It doesnt have to be LLM level. Even adventures of the 80s had interesting text parsers!. I remember LarryLaffer 's designer explaining in a video how he collected hundreds of possible questions from beta testers and aligned his game text parser to these questions!

@chomwitt's proposition / welcome app / offer offline copy of Devuan site , Devuan install guide and currently a variation of Debian begginers handbooks  (also see if it's @exercises can be downloaded)

@chomwitt's proposition / create 'man devuan' page.

@chris2be8 proposition / offer help to establish connection to internet offering specific and general advices .
(that could be tied to the @EDX-0's welcome app.)

@chomwitt's proposition / welcome app / offer connection to a irc devuan channel for new users

@chomwitt's proposition / installer / linux newcomers / history&basic usage in loading screens : Installer by default (or in less powerfull mode) could present unix-linux-debian-devuan history snippets intermixed with basic user knowledge. (unix mantras etc) .

#7 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-25 14:33:47

Thanks @EDX-0 and @fanderal .  xman surely could help in my no-internet scenario to make man look more accessible . Also fuzzy search is surely a boost but it'd be help to put it and a begginers manual in installer images.

Also speaking of user guides let me remind the FreeBSD Handbook @. But i dont think is contained in a FreeBSD installation.

#8 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-24 17:06:11

As for the .deb packaged guide. I downloaded and installed it.

$ sudo dpkg -i debian-beginners-handbook-en_13.3_all.deb 

$ dpkg -L debian-beginners-handbook-en 
/.
/usr
/usr/bin
/usr/bin/debian-beginners-handbook-en
/usr/share
/usr/share/applications
/usr/share/applications/debian-beginners-handbook-en.desktop
/usr/share/debian-beginners-handbook-en
/usr/share/debian-beginners-handbook-en/the_beginners_handbook.pdf
/usr/share/doc
/usr/share/doc/debian-beginners-handbook-en
/usr/share/doc/debian-beginners-handbook-en/README.Debian
/usr/share/doc/debian-beginners-handbook-en/changelog.gz
/usr/share/doc/debian-beginners-handbook-en/copyright
/usr/share/man
/usr/share/man/man1
/usr/share/man/man1/debian-beginners-handbook-en.1.gz
/usr/share/pixmaps
/usr/share/pixmaps/debian-beginners-handbook-en.png

It basically a pdf. It has a nice touch though. It installs a script command that open the pdf:

#!/bin/sh
xdg-open /usr/share/debian-beginners-handbook-en/the_beginners_handbook.pdf &
exit 0

Also as for the guide's history i found here the older versions @ and a 2017 version on the internet archives @

As for the authors  he has the nick arpinux .(website: @) and the guide is released under the WTFPL @

#9 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-24 14:34:39

@rolfie At least in my stated goal  man pages dont seems to help. Although the task could seem rather trivial (create a shared dir) . Debian has online a basic user guide @ (They now offer it also in a deb package (debian-beginners-handbook-en_13.3_all.deb) .But i dont think is in the repos yet.  I think it'd be a good idea install images to have such a package.

Maybe the Devuan user installation guide @ could also be included in such a package.

#10 Re: Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-24 08:52:35

@blackhole thanks . noted . But what if my forgetfull - naive sysadm (or daring user)dont remeber that ?
So a forgetfull sysadm should first (as you propose) remember how to use the help system.

That seem correct. But how could (s)he remember that  $ man man  works ?
I think most propably s(he) would try $ help  $ get-help ( :-) )

#11 Documentation » Trying to create a shared directory using only manpages as helpsystem. » 2026-06-24 08:33:52

chomwitt
Replies: 22

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TLDR: For a shorter recap see my Devuan wikipage  @
I present the wiki page as testing showcase of how i think a wiki could relate to various help systems used from Devuan Project.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
intention (goal) :
Trying to create a shared directory but with the constraint of not using the most accessible help in my system (internet search!!) . And if you have installed the most popular distros that is Firefox / google (by default). (so no web-search, no irc , no im , no forums, no emailists ... funny how most help systems need the net!) .. so that leaves us with 'good??' old manpages and possibly info.

User profiles:I approach the task from the perspective of either a sysadm that forgets always the details of a task or a naive user that is not afraid of tty.

Possible steps:
First: How do i search for related commands ? But that could be a wrong approach. Maybe our intention can be accomplished with a bunch of various commands.
So initially we could need help both in how we use the help inside our offline system and what commands could help me.

Possitble steps / search for commands / help
Know how to search for commands related to your intention. So if we dont remember how to ask our system for help we could go:

   $ help 
   ....These shell commands are defined internally. ...
       cd [-L|[-P [-e]] [-@]] [dir]     // interestingly there is no #man cd  
                                                // or #man alias but there is #man pwd                                                
   $ help share files  
bash: help: no help topics match `sharing'.  Try `help help' or `man -k sharing' or `info sharing'.  
    //cool.help states that as far it knows  'man' and 'info' are the help systems to look at !

Possitble steps / search for commands / man 
So my system dont seem it can help me unless i know $ man
But that still would help us!  We need also $ man man

Indeed $ man man is a good start .  (as @blackhole reminded me)
It explains that the system docs it can access and present to us are organized in sections and pages . And a page is structured in sections.
Also its opens  the road to $ man -a intro and $ man -k  and it refers also to apropos.

Possitble steps / search for commands / man -k (apropos) 
But i think even that wont help us. For sharing a folder we must know about groups. That is a basic knowledge for even a forgetfull sysadm. (we already assume that the system has more than one users!!). Interestingly arpinux's debian begginer's handbook (see further in that forum's thread for more related details) refers to Linux's mutliuser nature in the Rights and permissions sections. So the naive but determined tty-fearless user could learn that permissions on a folder could be the answer to sharing.

Possitble steps / search for commands / searching for groups
1. Search for group related commands (# apropos group)

$ apropos group | wc 
    122    1077    7284
$ apropos groups | wc 
     23     214    1425

Lets narrow a list of commands that seem related:  addgroup(8) , adduser(8) , getgroups(2)!! (how could a user know what '2' means?) , groups(1), setgroups(2)
Having already learned about man section we can narrow our list to  sections 1 (Executable programs or shell commands),5(File formats and conventions),7(misc), 8 (System administration commands (usually only for root)).

$ apropos -s 1,5,7,8  groups | wc
   17     157    1037  

Interstingly (for me!) root will give us the same :

# apropos -s 1,5,7,8  groups | wc
     17     157    1037

Still 17 commands are a lot. In worst case the forgetfull admin should read all the man pages !  (i wonder if i could pipe apropos results to man or another pager...)
But looking apropos's results shorts descriptions i guess we should start from groups(1) print the groups a user is in and addgroup (8)  - add or manipulate users or groups.

(here we miss groupmod .. not because apropos wont find it but because

# apropos  -s 1,5,7,8 group | wc
     57     534    3614

  . So we should search among more commands.

Our plan 
So now a plan can be formulated:

  • create a folder # mkdir /home/sharedfolder

  • create a group (family)

  • change shared's folder group owner

  • add your users in that group

  • do some testing to see if the default permissions suits you.

Our plan  /  create the shared folder
Ok. Lets create the shared folder. If we choose /home as our parent dir then only root can create it. Also only root can call addgroup.
And only the root must change the folder's group.

Our plan  /  create the family group

$ man addgroup
   Add a group
       If  adduser is called with the --group option and without the --system option, or addgroup is called respectively, a
       user group will be added.
# addgroup family
bash: addgroup: command not found

At that point i think our naive user will stop. (no internet)

A debian quirk makes even for root addgroup not accessible.

# sudo apt-file search addgroup
adduser: /usr/sbin/addgroup   

So try again:

# /usr/sbin/addgroup family

Our plan / validate new group creation 
Now it'd be handy to validate that our group was created. But how ? The command we have found so far wont help us. So lets believe that if linux wont say anything is a good sing .(see unix philosophy @.) ( hint: again look at # apropos  -s 1,5,7,8 group  and have faith .. )

Our plan / change group owner of our sharedirecory
Now how do we change the group owner of our /home/sharedfolder ?

# apropos permissions
...
access (2)           - check user's permissions for a file
chmod (2)            - change permissions of a file
...

Here again the previous apropos command bites us. We need chown .  So again we'r stuck. man pages are indifferent to our intentions or for what purpose we want to use a commands.

In worst case we must backtrack and look at # apropos  -s 1,5,7,8 group    having more faith at the short descriptions.
So we backtrack. (no internet ).

# man chown   // good description guides us here well.
# ls -al
...
drwxrwxr-x  2 root root  4096 Jun 24 10:33 sharedFolder
...
# chown root:family sharedFolder
# ls -al
...
drwxrwxr-x  2 root family  4096 Jun 24 10:33 sharedFolder
...

Our plan / add our user to the new family group
Dont loose faith. We are near the end!!...  We must add our users to the family group we have created and sharing magic will start.
If at each user we do: $ groups we'll see the groups our users belong in. We want to add the 'family' group to that list.
Apropos to help..  look at  # apropos  -s 1,5,7,8 user
Check # man usermod

# /usr/sbin/usermod -a -G family alex
# /usr/sbin/usermod -a -G family olga

Alternatively :
/usr/sbin/groupmod -a -U alex,olga family

Our plan / do some testing
login as alex:

$ cd /home/sharedFolder/
alex@familypc:/home/sharedFolder$ ls
alex@familypc:/home/sharedFolder$ touch test
alex@familypc:/home/sharedFolder$ ls -al
σύνολο 8
drwxrwxr-x 2 root family 4096 Ιουν 24 21:48 .
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root   4096 Ιουν 24 10:33 ..
-rw-rw-r-- 1 alex alex      0 Ιουν 24 21:48 test

I think we're ok.

#12 Re: Off-topic » HexChat's GTK3 Successor: ZoiteChat » 2026-06-24 08:20:23

Why Hexchat is abandoned? Also since Hexchat is in Devuan repos isnt that still a plus ?

#13 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Authorization required in Gajim » 2026-06-18 07:57:48

$ sudo apt-get purge gnome-keyring
$ dpkg -l  | grep keyring
ii  debian-archive-keyring                              2025.1                               all          OpenPGP archive certificates of the Debian archive
ii  devuan-keyring                                      2025.08.09                           all          OpenPGP certificates used by the Devuan repository
ii  gnome-keyring-pkcs11:amd64                          48.0-1                               amd64        GNOME keyring module for the PKCS#11 module loading library
ii  libpam-gnome-keyring:amd64                          48.0-1                               amd64        PAM module to unlock the GNOME keyring upon login
ii  python3-keyring                                     25.6.0-2                             all          store and access your passwords safely

I'm not sure it's related to my issue. For example google-chrome presents the same message and gajim (if purged (and its .config dir)) and then if i started again after i try to enter my account for a server the same message will appear. If i hit cancel the dialogue dissapear but my xmpp acoount wont still login.
If i choose yes i get a dialogue window:

Title : KDE wallet service :
/usr/bin/gajim requested the creation of a kdewallet ....

If i manage to login (without enabling kde waller -- yes that happened!) the next time i start gajim i get near my xfce notifacation area the message 'password not found authentication failed' and although i can see my contacts i am offline and trying to get online i get the same notification message.

Also shouldnt  $sudo apt-get purge gajim    delete the config files too. I purged it. I reninstalled it and my contacts were there.
Indeed:

~/.config/gajim$ ls
pluginsconfig  settings.sqlite  theme

ps: it not my writing that is messed up..  :-)

#14 Re: Off-topic » curated pico-distributions (aka curated workflows) » 2026-06-16 10:13:19

I wonder if a PPA is one implemanation of my general idea.

So : 

  • a simple curated list of Devuan package names

  • a PPA

  • arch package groups @

  • debian blends

  • installer current workflow suggestion. Desktop/WM

  • virtual packages

  • msys2 @ resembles a pico-distro inside ms windows transfusing not only workflows but a unix style of programming inside windows!! Also msys2 contains arch groups @

I think my proposal is close to an extension of the virtual package idea. It seems more easily to implement. And it wont break a Devuan installation.

But i dont think of my pico-wf-distros as mere collection like arch groups of similar package funtionaliy.

Theoretically you could have a cool webpage where you can create - share - edit - use a pico-distro (curated wf) and the site would validate it and add the necessery dependencies.  Then download it and run in from apt. You could even bind it to current popular functionality extending it to accomodate popular pico-distros.

#15 Desktop and Multimedia » Authorization required in Gajim » 2026-06-16 08:32:23

chomwitt
Replies: 5

Release : Excalibur
DS+WM : Xorg , XFCE

When i start Gajim i see:

Authorization required is Gajim. The login keyring did not get unlocked when you logged into your computer.
Password:

The same message i see starting google-chrome

#16 Re: Installation » Trying excalibur desktop-live.iso in qemu i get a blank screen » 2026-06-10 20:51:10

qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 2048   -cdrom install-images/devuan_excalibur_6.1.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso

works again only on failsafe option.

#17 Installation » Trying excalibur desktop-live.iso in qemu i get a blank screen » 2026-06-10 09:20:57

chomwitt
Replies: 3

Host: Devuan Excalibur

$ qemu-img create -f qcow2 devuan-excal-live-storage.qcow2 10G

$ qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 2048 -nic user,model=virtio -drive file=devuan-excal-live-storage.qcow2,media=disk,if=virtio  -cdrom install-images/devuan_excalibur_6.1.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso

I see the boot menu and i let it boot with its default.

If i choose fail safe it proceeds ok and i login with username : devuan.

#18 Re: Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » 2026-06-10 09:16:54

Lets see what offline help devuan excalibur live cd offers:

It has on the desktop in prominent place :

* Release notes
* README_desktop-live.txt
* REAME.txt

Except from basic info they basically link to online help.

Devuan and Artix livecd that i tested they resort to plain text file as an entry help system. Interesting.

#19 Re: Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » 2026-06-10 06:21:16

$ man devuan
No manual entry for devuan

But:

$ man debian-distro-info
$ man distro-info

But no usefull info. Just the generic info use of the distro-info.

From a small search: neither freebsd,artix have a man page for themselfes.
So it seems debian and devuan has think of it but not done it.
And thus in case of offline new installation a user may miss access to so well thought and distilled reference help.

#20 Re: Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » 2026-06-08 21:34:21

I forgot also info .

My post is about general help system. Not only for sysadms or programmers.
I see usefullness and find inspiration to all help systems.

#21 Re: Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » 2026-06-08 14:08:14

I think man pages are tied to specific packages. eg: Are there man pages for Devuan installation ,wifi setup ? I think man page is the documentation that each upstream provides for his/her package included in a distro. So i think a distro dont have man pages. In case i am not wrong it'd be good idea a Devuan to has each own man pages and wiki to has options to export to man pages.

man pages is (was) one man(women)'s work . It's missing a use-case context awereness. (most dead artifacts have that i guess). That's why there are all the other help systems.

I added at the help system's list documentation and man pages. Even if generally it was mentioned below :

---- help systems / not time critical (dead responses) ----
dead help / docs
By dead response i mean documentation. (its dead..and could be written from dead people also)).

#22 Documentation » Exploring Help systems semantics » 2026-06-08 10:33:51

chomwitt
Replies: 7

An effort to explore help system semantics.

I try differentiate what a helping's system main functionality is and how a user or a project's member uses it.  So an irc channel has memoserv but i dont think is a goodidea in irc to tell user to memoserv their issues. Also a wiki can create docs but a user wont use a wiki's main functionality(co-editing). Also using a forum to have a chit chat while being both 'online'  again is not a forum's main functionality.

----online help systems list----

  • documentation (info , man pages, manual, tutorial etc)

  • email lists (async,threaded discussion,delete?,bot protection?)

  • instant messaging

  • irc    (sync,discussions,delete?,linear,short message granularity)

  • blogs  (async,personal)

  • forum  (async,discussions,delete,manyusers,archive)

  • wiki  (async,manyusers,delete,sharing,text co-editing)

  • phone (sync,coice,video)

  • offline (sync,multidimensional)/conferences etc

traits: spam protection, llm-bot crawlers protection , human-comp time-resources requirements (lightweight - heavy axis) , robustness (easy to repair,reproduce) , points of control (centralized - decentralized ), organization options , data formats supported, user-time ,constraints, markup language used (should email,forum,wiki support the same markup? i think yes), acl (access control lists).

We must recongize types of telecomm functionality and later see how comm-system match them.

---- help systems / time-critical (minute response)----
'''A user wants help now''' --> phone,irc,im .

The system must establish sync comm channels between parties. Semantics are like in a  conversation. If a party dont hear a reply then it may leave. Which is exactly what you would do on the phone!. I think telling a user in irc,im to wait breaks the semantics and moves them toward other types. What's the difference telling her/him to leave a message (memoserv) and thus send an email .)

Also the user time-critical requirement create schedulling requirement in an organization. '''Having an irc channel doesnt mean that a project offers near-instant help.''' That's the easiest part. A project must find 1) members willing to stay alert for certain hours 2) members highly experienced and fast ! Highly experience because you dont have time to ask more help from others . So maybe you need many members specialized. 3) A subtle way to balance giving time-critical help to llm-bot spoiled users, avoid losing them for ever, and not overburden resources.

---- help systems / not time critical (daily-weekly response)----
'''A user wants not time critical help''' -->  email lists , forums, docs .

A user has more time to prepare her/his issue preparation and the helper more time to answer.I think a forum offers better organization-management options and accessibiliy of the posted issues but at the cost of being more centralized.

An email-list i think is most robust (to malfunctions), more decentralized (since each user has copies in his email )more easy to maintain , claims less comp-resources on a project's infrastructure and probably more resistant to aggressive crawlers. Since it's less sexy it could be usefull for more aged and experienced users and as a backup help async system. That traits should not be overlooked for libre software projects.

---- help systems / not time critical (dead responses) ----
dead help / docs
By dead response i mean documentation. (its dead..and could be written from dead people also)).

Documentation is a catalogue-archive of past common help cases. Documentation could be seen as a long term memory of a project. Artifact that can be delivered in hard copies (the ultimate safe).

dead help  / wikis
I argue that a wiki is the main tool what will build the Documentation. A good documentation should be co-edited. A wiki is not for helping user. The documentation produced would help user. BUT!! there are wikis that offer help all over the internet. But a user using eg: the debian wiki wont coedit it!! But a wiki's main functionality is co-editing! So when we say go to visit debian's wiki i think we mean go see the docs produces by a wiki.

Wiki's food is archived discussions from forum,emaillist,irc logs. But a good wiki is not a search engine on archived talks.  A wiki's dead artifacts should excel at pinpointing common cases and offer good descriptions for issues already solved in a level undestandble by various type of users .  Good docs could draw attention from other help systems. That requirement means frequent testing and crossvalidation .

refs:

  • DW devuanwiki/Chomwitt.HelpSystemSemantics

  • @ nYAW has an interesting of email-forum-chat-wiki relations.

#23 Re: Off-topic » curated pico-distributions (aka curated workflows) » 2026-05-31 16:12:46

Lately i tried Debian's 13 installer . And it offered me a choice of one of six @blends.

I dont say that to imitate. But it seems to me a logical step in what a distribution can offer. As i argued before in a certain way it does that already.

ps:
See in wiki.devuan.org  / chomwitt  my  Explorations @ category.
Lately i created a wikispace (as it called in PmWiki) . A collections of wikipages under my name.
Also i put many wikipages of mine under some categories. (these may be global .. meaning if i am correct that another user could place
a wikipage of her/his wikispace under the same category.

#24 Re: Off-topic » Off Topic but relevant. » 2026-05-29 19:54:31

xmm.. redhater veteran calls containers bullshit. Maybe now it's not affordable to run containers because ram is getting hoarded by the big guys and it seems better idea to deploy software that uses a distribution's libraries and shared resources ?

Because yes if a programming project do that you could ship the same program in a portion of memory needs.  Now maybe not a floppy but still much better than now.

So no it's not bullshit for every application to ship with each own operating system!! as long as you have the luxury to have cheap unlimited memory . I would personaly have no problem my guest to bring their own refrigarator and bed if i had big house..

Anyway as  i have argued in another post one merit of a good distribution can be lowering the pressure on ram, or allowing more apps than running apps in container like formats.  But that would put pressure on upstream programmers to lower their push for eternal shiny updates to grab eyeballs.

#25 Re: Off-topic » An exploration on Devuan-Release semantics » 2026-05-27 00:46:20

I've changed the wiki page (last link in my initial post) . Now the correct is @ DevuanWiki / Devuan Distribution and Releases.

Strangely i cannot edit my initial post. I dont know why it's locked. I dont plan to delete it. I mean i have a fear of aggresive crawlers but i dont plan to delete it.

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