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#1 Re: Off-topic » Music » 2018-06-20 22:18:05


Ok, here's another one:

Smashing Pumpkins – Doomsday Clock

Definitely one of my all-time favorites of their songs. I especially like this live performance. It's a lot more powerful than the album recording.

#2 Re: Devuan » Devuan ASCII reviewed on DistroWatch Weekly » 2018-06-19 16:39:04


A few comments on this:

On the desktop are icons for opening the file manager, reading the distribution's release notes, launching the installer and changing the desktop font sizes. [...] Unfortunately, the text labels under the desktop icons do not handle being resized well. When we first start using Devuan, the text under the icons reads "Small", "Large" and "_Release Notes". Increasing the size one notch makes the text read "SM", "LA" and "_RE".

Can this be confirmed by anyone?

Devuan has its own system installer.

That's not exactly right. Devuan installation images use a modified version of the Debian Installer. But this will probably change in the future as there are plans to create a new installer for Devuan.

Installing from a Devuan live system, you will, however, be using Refracta Installer[1]. So, all the installer-related issues mentioned in that review apply to Refracta Installer only, not to Devuan's version of the Debian installer.

Devuan supports working with just the ext2/3/4 file systems.

Untrue. The installer used by the installation images also offers Btrfs, JFS and XFS. You can even format drives and partitions with FAT16 and FAT32. Refracta Installer might, however, have some limitations here.

We are asked which language locales should be set up, with options being pulled from a cryptic list with entries like "en_US.UTF-8". We then select our keyboard layout from a similar set of lists.

Again, this is not true if you don't install from within a live system. Just like the original, Devuan's version of the Debian Installer will let you choose your language and locale in a straightforward and totally non-cryptic manner.

Devuan ships with an unusual combination of popular open source applications and some less common programs. Popular items include Firefox, LibreOffice, the GNU Image Manipulation Program and the VLC media player. But then we are also given the lesser known Quod Libet music player, the Ex Falso media tag editor and the mutt terminal e-mail client. The Orage Calendar application, a PDF document viewer and printer manager are present too. The Thunar file manager is included along with a tool to rename groups of files and there is a process monitor. Devuan ships with the Wicd network manager to help us get on-line.

Devuan ships whatever Debian ships, except that packages dependent on systemd are either rebuilt to work without it or simply banned.

Devuan ships Firefox, but then its counterpart is the mutt console e-mail program which feels entirely out of place with the rest of the desktop software.

Well, that's apparently because task-xfce-desktop will not install an e-mail client and mutt being in the default install. Not a big deal, IMO.

Having a fairly large repository of software available along with Flatpak support provided a solid collection of applications on a conservative operating system foundation.

I think it's kind of wrong to name Devuan a "conservative" distribution. It's not about just keeping everything as it is. If it was, why would it offer OpenRC as an alternative to SysVinit, for example?

Richard wrote:

The choice is to decide whether to create a base system for distro developers, a sys admins system or a system that might please everyone. Or something in between whatever that might be.

I'd say there is no decision to be made here, since, just like Debian, Devuan aims to provide a "universal operating system".

1 … README.txt

#3 Devuan » Devuan ASCII reviewed on DistroWatch Weekly » 2018-06-18 22:37:49

Replies: 14

Issue 768 of DW Weekly brings a review of Devuan 2.0 ASCII, but one that's kind of odd: … 618#devuan

#4 Re: Installation » [Solved] Ascii upgrade (also) messed up this Devuan Jessie » 2018-06-18 13:03:54

Altoid wrote:
msi wrote:

How about reading those ASCII release notes?

I have read them.
But have not been able to identify anything specific that would help me solve this.
At least not with my level of exposure to Linux.

Perhaps you could point out anything I may have (surely) missed?

Well, you wrote that using startx, you get "the full desktop but still no Kb or mouse". This could simply be because the Xserver freezes on start-up and may have nothing to do with your keyboard and mouse at all. You need to read the section "Starting X from a console (TTY)".

#5 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Refracta no-dbus experiment » 2018-06-17 19:35:58

fsmithred wrote:

The subject of running without dbus comes up from time to time in various places.

One of those places being the Friends of Devuan Wiki: … e_software

#6 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » MATE 1.20 on devuan ascii » 2018-06-17 19:22:08

colby wrote:
msi wrote:

So, mate-power-manager here is a third-party package that has apparently been rebuilt so it won't depend on systemd and network-manager is a genuine Devuan package that has been forked from Debian in order to eliminate the systemd dependency.

I have not looked at the source code or queried the maintainers for these packages, therefore I can not give you an authoratative answer to your question.

Just to clarify: I wasn't asking a question there. I just wrote „apparently“ because I didn't have time to check the changelog for AntoFox's mate-power-manager package and therefore be absolutely sure about my statement. But then, it's pretty obvious that it's providing a modified version of mate-power-manager that doesn't depend on systemd. I've also looked at the changelog now to verify that.

#7 Re: Installation » [Solved] Ascii upgrade (also) messed up this Devuan Jessie » 2018-06-17 19:01:54

Altoid wrote:
Altoid wrote:

I was able to start X, got the full desktop but still no Kb or mouse (it's plugged into the USB Kb).
So the problem persists.  =^/


How about reading those ASCII release notes?

#8 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » MATE 1.20 on devuan ascii » 2018-06-14 15:25:57

colby wrote:

Both power manager and network manger run on devuan Mate-1.20. I installed them from devuan repositories and hezeh, as listed in my source.list file which follows.


These are the packages I have installed and running on my system:

gnome-power-manager                       3.22.2-2
mate-power-manager                          1.20.0-1+hezeh1
mate-power-manager-common           1.20.0-1+hezeh1

network-manager                                1.6.2-3+devuan1.1
network-manager-gnome                    1.4.4-1

So, mate-power-manager here is a third-party package that has apparently been rebuilt so it won't depend on systemd and network-manager is a genuine Devuan package that has been forked from Debian in order to eliminate the systemd dependency.

#9 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » MATE 1.20 on devuan ascii » 2018-06-13 16:30:54

colby wrote:

I've read that both mate-power-manager and mate-network-manager are dependent upon systemd.

Neither of those packages exist in Devuan. The latter doesn't even exist in Debian. AntoFox should be able to explain how network configuration and power management for MATE are being handled in Devuan.

colby wrote:

Systemd is not running on my system. There is an /etc/systemd directory with a few entries none of which concern mate-power-manager. There is some networking window dressing, but how these files are used without systemd is unclear to me. Systemd became a Gnome project dependency in 2011. All I know about systemd is I don't want to run on a system that is dependent on it.

I think you should read

#10 Re: Installation » [Solved] Ascii upgrade (also) messed up this Devuan Jessie » 2018-06-13 00:03:15

Altoid wrote:

Thanks a lot.  8^)

Normally, you would have an entry for booting into runlevel 1 in your GRUB boot menu as well. But from your description it seemed like it's not there on your system.

Altoid wrote:

In contrast to what I was used to with MS OSs, I've never had to do go to recovery mode with my Linux installations.
It's actually the first time.

It's actually called "single-user mode". Ubuntu calls it "recovery mode"... (mea culpa)

devuser wrote:

Beyond that it might be an idea to try narrowing the problem down. I'd try disabling slim (i guess this should work: update-rc.d slim disable) and see if your keyboard works after a normal boot. If it does try startx. If it still works clearly slim is the culprit.

I would have suggested the same. However, you might want to do yourself the favor of reading the section on "Starting X from a console (TTY)" in the ASCII release notes before you use startx to start X.

#11 Re: Installation » [Solved] Ascii upgrade (also) messed up this Devuan Jessie » 2018-06-12 20:30:59

Altoid wrote:

Can't see how to get into recovery mode, the keyboard is not responsive.

When the GRUB menu shows up, select Devuan, but don't hit Return. Type e instead. Now you should see a bunch of text containing a line somewhere reading somehting like:

linux   /vmlinuz-4.9.0-6-686-pae root=UUID=810cd705-55b6-4ce2-a414-76e16ce125f4 ro  quiet

It may be wrapped if it's too long to fit the screen. Anyway, navigate to the end of that line, then insert 1. Then hit F10 to boot. The boot process should pause at a certain point and you should be asked to enter your root password for manitenance (or type Ctrl+D to continue). Enter your root password and hit Return. There you are in runlevel 1 or "recovery mode". You won't have to change that GRUB configuration back because it's not permanent.

Altoid wrote:

I'm not complaining but as it is a default Jesse (SLiM and XFCE) installation upgrade I expected no major hickups save maybe the Nvidia drivers acting up.

What do you mean by "upgrade"?

#12 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Problems with NTP and network config after upgrade » 2018-06-12 17:39:38

msi wrote:

I temporarily replaced the current verison of the file with that from Jessie to see if it would make any difference and it didn't. So, the root of the problem must be somewhere else.

Well, maybe not. I've found that throwing out /etc/dhcp/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/ntp will make both of the error messages mentioned above go away. So, the one on boot is obviously also triggered by it. There will, of course, be no automatic handling of ntp restarts on DHCP events if the file is missing.

I've been trying to understand what this script really does and I kind of do. But the ntp_servers_setup function is still a mystery to me. Where does it get the value for $reason? It's simply not defined within the script. And neither are $new_ntp_servers and $old_ntp_servers, which are used in the ntp_servers_setup_add function.

Here's the entire file:


ntp_server_restart() {
	invoke-rc.d ntp try-restart

ntp_servers_setup_remove() {
	if [ ! -e $NTP_DHCP_CONF ]; then

ntp_servers_setup_add() {
	if [ -e $NTP_DHCP_CONF ] && [ "$new_ntp_servers" = "$old_ntp_servers" ]; then

	if [ -z "$new_ntp_servers" ]; then

	tmp=$(mktemp "$NTP_DHCP_CONF.XXXXXX") || return
	chmod --reference=$NTP_CONF $tmp
	chown --reference=$NTP_CONF $tmp

	  echo "# This file was copied from $NTP_CONF with the server options changed"
	  echo "# to reflect the information sent by the DHCP server.  Any changes made"
	  echo "# here will be lost at the next DHCP event.  Edit $NTP_CONF instead."
	  echo "# NTP server entries received from DHCP server"
	  for server in $new_ntp_servers; do
		echo "server $server iburst"
	  sed '/^[[:space:]]*\(server\|peer\|pool\)[[:space:]]/d' $NTP_CONF
	) >>$tmp
	mv $tmp $NTP_DHCP_CONF


ntp_servers_setup() {
	case $reason in


#13 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-12 15:46:03


As far as starting X from a TTY goes, there's some important info in the ASCII release notes:

### Starting X from a console (TTY)

In Devuan 2.0 ASCII, the X server no longer requires to be run with
root privileges. As a consequence, there are some additional
requirements to be met when launching X directly from a TTY (i.e.,
through 'xinit' or 'startx'), especially on systems upgraded from
Devuan Jessie.

In Devuan 2.0 ASCII it is sufficient to install 'elogind' and
'libpam-elogind', and then use either 'startx' or 'xinit' as usual
from a regular user account. In this case, the Xorg log file will be
available under '~/.local/share/xorg/'.

The system still needs to support Kernel Mode Setting (KMS).
Therefore, this solution may not work in some virtualization
environments (e.g.  virtualbox) or if the kernel has no driver that
supports your graphic card.

Alternatively, it is still possible to run X with setuid root. In this
case, you need to install `xserver-xorg-legacy` and ensure that the
file '/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config' contains the (uncommented) line:


If you have neither of the above configurations, X will freeze immediately after you start it.

#14 Re: Installation » [Solved] Ascii upgrade (also) messed up this Devuan Jessie » 2018-06-12 15:19:53


Does the keyboard respond when you boot the system in recovery mode?

What login manager are you trying to use?

#15 Re: Installation » Installation failure for specific locale (gr) [SOLVED]. » 2018-06-12 15:10:52



a few questions about this:

1. At which point exactly did the installation fail?

2. Was there an error message?

3. Can you reproduce the problem?

#16 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Problems with NTP and network config after upgrade » 2018-06-06 08:42:12


That script seems to be there to make sure NTP is being restarted automatically when bringing up and down network interfaces that get their IP address through DHCP.

I've dug a little deeper and found that it has been part of the ntp package at least since Debian Wheezy. Also, it's identical in the Wheezy and Jessie packages, but has seen minor changes in Stretch.

These are:

1. Line 2 was changed from




2. Line 43 was changed from

sed -r -e '/^ *(server|peer).*$/d' $NTP_CONF


sed '/^[[:space:]]*\(server\|peer\|pool\)[[:space:]]/d' $NTP_CON

I temporarily replaced the current verison of the file with that from Jessie to see if it would make any difference and it didn't. So, the root of the problem must be somewhere else.

#18 Hardware & System Configuration » Problems with NTP and network config after upgrade » 2018-06-04 20:08:08

Replies: 3

Since I have upgraded from Jessie to ASCII, I'm getting the following warning about NTP on shutdown, which is apparently somehow connected to network device configuration:

DHCPRELEASE on wlan0 to port 67
invoke-rc.d: -----------------------------------------------------
invoke-rc.d: WARNING: 'invoke-rc.d ntp try-restart' called
invoke-rc.d: during shutdown sequence.
invoke-rc.d: enabling safe mode: initscript policy layer disabled
invoke-rc.d: -----------------------------------------------------

I hadn't heard of invoke-rc.d before, so I looked it up. The manual page says it's "a generic interface to execute System V style init script /etc/init.d/name actions" and that "all access to the init scripts by Debian packages' maintainer scripts should be done through invoke-rc.d".

I had initially tried to solve the problem by editing /etc/init.d/ntp. But that doesn't seem right, so I restored the original file from backup.

How can I find out now what is calling invoke-rc.d ntp try-restart during shutdown and why?

As for this issue being connected to the network device settings, I've found the following: When I use auto wlan0 instead of allow-hotplug wlan0 in /etc/network/interfaces (where I do all my network configuration), I'll get this during boot:

DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to port 67 interval 5
DHCPREQUEST of on wlan0 to port 67
DHCPACK of from
invoke-rc.d: could not determine current runlevel
bound to -- renewal in 400249 seconds.

First, these messages are not shown when using the allow-hotplug configuration. In that case, all that is shown of the network device configuration during boot is:

Configuring network interfaces...ifup: waiting for lock on /run/network/ifstate.wlan0
ifup: interface wlan0 already configured

Second, there's an error message in there. And even though I understand what it says, I have no clue what to do about that.

The warning message displayed on shutdown is the same in both cases.

Any ideas?

#19 Re: Installation » Ascii upgrade messed up the devuan jessie » 2018-06-04 18:51:53

golinux wrote:
msi wrote:

Btw, it's a good idea to use code tags when posting config files. That makes it more readable.

Done (for the second time).

Looks like something to mention in a forum code of conduct to be. wink

#20 Re: Installation » Ascii upgrade messed up the devuan jessie » 2018-06-04 18:43:30


Ok, I see. First, I'd try setting sources.list back to Jessie and then run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade. If that goes well, I'd reboot and see how that goes.

Btw, it's a good idea to use code tags when posting config files. That makes it more readable.

#21 Re: Installation » Ascii upgrade messed up the devuan jessie » 2018-06-04 18:21:39

erdos wrote:

i've run into this error when i tried to upgrade from devuan jessice to ascii a couple months ago (March 24th):

root@debian:/home/erdos# apt-get dist-upgrade Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. 
The following packages have unmet dependencies: 
initscripts : Depends: sysv-rc or file-rc but it is not installable libncurses5 
: Depends: libtinfo5 (= 5.9+20140913-1+b1) but 6.0+20161126-1+deb9u1 is installed sysvinit-core 
: Depends: sysv-rc or file-rc but it is not installable sysvinit-utils 
: Depends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.25~) but 1.24+devuan1.0 is installed E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.

after reboot the system, i can only log into command line, but my home directory is not mounted, wifi is not working.

With that kind of error messages occuring, apt-get should refuse to perform any dist-upgrade, which it seemingly did in your case. So, unless you did not "try using -f" or anything else in that direction and also changed back your sources.list to Jessie and ran apt-get update after that, your system should actually be fine. So, did you try any other commands to make the upgrade happen or forget to revert your apt sources to Jessie?

What does /etc/apt/sources.list look like on that system?

#22 Off-topic » Microsoft acquiring GitHub » 2018-06-04 15:12:39

Replies: 6

In case you haven't noticed, Microsoft is going to buy GitHub.

Here are the official statements:

#23 Re: Devuan Derivatives » [Miyo] Question about Miyo's window managers' folder view setting » 2018-06-04 14:35:58

Ron wrote:

I am wondering if any of the window managers that Miyo comes with (Openbox, i3, and now Awesome) allow individual folders to be set to different views.

Window managers don't have anything to do with this, file managers do.

Ron wrote:

Here's what I mean: I prefer most of my folders to be set at compact view, except all of my folders that contain videos and pictures. I prefer these folders to be set at icon view. Mate allows this, and this is one of the reasons I started using Mate shortly after I moved away from Windows to Linux. I had tried Xfce before Mate, but it didn't allow individual folders to have different views; the folder view setting was system-wide (unless I just couldn't figure it out).

This can indeed be done in PCManFM. I just tested it. When you are inside a folder, you can change the view and then tell PCManFM to remember the view configuration you've set for that folder. SpaceFM apprently doesn't have that feature. You could, however, put a feature request on the issue tracker at (I hereby encourage you to do that.)

On a side note, if the folder view configuration you set up in your file manager is applied system-wide, something's wrong. These customizations are intentionally user-specific as you will surely come to see when you create another user account, log in, open the file manager and find that none of them apply.

#24 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED]Floppy disk drive issues. » 2018-06-02 20:58:56

Caluser2000 wrote:

After further digging found the solution at … c=106099.0

Copied "/dev/fd0 /media/floppy auto umask=0,users,iocharset=utf8,noauto,flush,exec 0 0" to the fstab and it works as it should. An floppy icon even shows up on my desktop when mounted.

I'd be careful with simply copying such a configuration onto my system. If you haven't done it already, you best have a look at the manual pages of fstab and mount to really understand what that line does. For example, you probably want to put user instead of users, because, as the manual page of mount explains:

Only the user that mounted a filesystem can unmount it again.  If any user
should be able to unmount it, then use 'users' instead of 'user' in the fstab line.
The 'owner' option is similar to the 'user' option, with the restriction that the
user must be the owner of the special file.  This may be useful e.g. for
/dev/fd if a login script makes the console user owner of this device.  The
'group' option is similar, with the restriction that the user must be member of
the group of the special file.

#25 Re: Devuan » Desktop Screenshot Contest! » 2018-06-02 16:54:28

MiyoLinux wrote:

Thanks for that!

Btw, it's simply MSI, just like you'd pronounce BSD.

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