22:24:35 <Katje> Woo! it is a good day. I deployed 3 servers running devuan into production
22:24:58 <Katje> and aside from having to spend 5 mins debugging why eth2 didn't work (spoiler, I plugged the cable into eth3)
22:25:04 <Katje> perfectly, first time
22:46:37 <daimon> hey all I just installed pidgin-otr ... the binary name however does not seem to be 'pidgin' is there anyway I can derive the binary it installed from the package
22:46:42 <daimon> apt binary_name pidgin-otr
22:46:43 <daimon> or something
22:46:58 <daimon> ah because -otr is the plugin..
22:47:12 <GyrosGeier> dpkg -L package | grep usr/bin
22:47:19 <GyrosGeier> that should work in most cases :)
22:47:25 <daimon> cheers :)
22:47:46 <sgage> Synaptic will tell you all the files installed by a package - it is useful sometimes.
22:49:53 <schillingklaus> synaptics is for gui and mouse fetishists, so I have never used it
23:08:35 <mason> Katje: Nice, good to hear.
23:09:42 <sgage> You do not have to be a gui/mouse 'fetishist' to sometimes find a tool useful.
23:10:13 <sgage> But now we know you're speshul. :-) Seriously, I agree that it is good to use
23:10:40 <sgage> the command line tools whenever possible.
23:28:14 <UsL> I've experienced synaptic to sometimes install stuff better than apt or apt-get. I can't remember what it was, but I remember trying with apt first. The package failed. So, remove --purge and then just by a fluke I tried it with Synaptic and then the package worked. Ever since that I'm always a bit weary of apt not doing it's job. But it is so much easier to do stuff in the terminal than click around in the gui.
23:28:51 <UsL> s/sometimes/one time
23:30:15 <rm> try aptitude for that
23:30:40 <rm> doesn't have to be a GUI tool, aptitude has much better dependency resolution than apt or apt-get, too
23:31:09 <UsL> right. I felt it was something like that. A missing dep
23:31:34 <brocashelm> isn't apt an ubuntu thing that brought over to debian?
23:32:28 <fsmithred> no, apt is debian's invention
23:32:58 <fsmithred> update-notifier is from ubuntu, I think
23:33:36 <brocashelm> i thought it was shortened from aptitude to apt for "convenience"
23:33:55 <fsmithred> nope. apt = Advanced Package Manager
23:34:04 <fsmithred> and it was way ahead of the other distros at the time
23:34:14 <brocashelm> i see
23:34:35 <fsmithred> maybe I'm not so good with the alphabet
23:34:53 <brocashelm> advanced package tool, lol
23:35:07 <fsmithred> thanks, I was drawing a blank
23:35:17 <UsL> I was like, Tuner..
23:35:34 <fsmithred> Terminal (because I was just reading about terminal fonts)
23:35:35 <brocashelm> so, it was apt-get first, right?
23:35:43 <fsmithred> yeah
23:35:55 <fsmithred> then aptitude, which includes the curses interface
23:36:06 <brocashelm> got it
23:36:13 <fsmithred> which I think is the next gen from dselect
23:36:24 <fsmithred> god that was a horror
23:37:00 <fsmithred> probably because I tried to install debian like I installed suse or redhat.
23:37:28 <fsmithred> it's easier to just let the installer do its thing and add what I want later
23:37:30 <schillingklaus> does aptitude work well on devuan? On antix is is almost useless as it does not handle antix's own creations
23:37:51 <fsmithred> yes, aptitude works on devuan like it does on debian
23:38:04 <brocashelm> devuan basically is debian
23:38:06 <fsmithred> if you get stuck with apt or apt-get, try aptitude for alternate solutions
23:38:06 <brocashelm> minus the systemd
23:39:35 <brocashelm> you can't get more debian than devuan for any of debian's downstream distros. antix, mx, ubuntu, mint, etc. have all become too "diverse"
23:40:31 <UsL> antix and mx should base of of devuan isntead.
23:40:49 <UsL> and help with upstream stuff
23:41:15 <brocashelm> there are distros based on devuan, though :)
23:42:11 <schillingklaus> such as refracta, star, miyo,...
23:42:31 <brocashelm> like refracta (which i use), miyo, michaels devuan edition, virage, etc.
23:42:34 <brocashelm> https://www.devuan.org/os/devuan-distros
23:42:51 <brocashelm> so you don't have to strictly use vanilla devuan if you want something based on devuan
23:43:30 <schillingklaus> refracta is the work of the great fsmithred
23:43:53 <brocashelm> it's the best one IMO
23:43:56 <UsL> yeah, seems to know what he's about..
23:44:16 <UsL> I might try it on a laptop I was handed.
23:44:28 <brocashelm> i kept distrohopping back and forth with devuan ascii
23:44:30 <UsL> it needs a ssd though. Spinning rust is so slooow.
23:44:38 <brocashelm> but refracta 10 ended that
23:44:57 <UsL> that hardlt counts as distro hopping, but I know what you mean : )
23:45:30 <brocashelm> beowulf was good and that settled it for me when it became stable
23:46:05 <brocashelm> well, i had some other isos laying around, but i'd been meaning to leave mintbuntu for good because i didn't want systemd.exe
23:47:09 <UsL> yeah, that reminds me, wonder what micro$oft is announcing the 24th of June.
23:47:25 <UsL> I think a linux kernel with a windows gui on it..
23:47:44 <UsL> systemd == svchost
23:47:49 <brocashelm> heh
23:48:24 <UsL> they said the biggest announcement this decade.
23:49:31 <UsL> what ever it will be, it will probably also be horrible.
23:50:00 <schillingklaus> maybe systemd coming to windows12?
23:50:07 <brocashelm> we can talk in #devuan-offtopic
23:51:28 <yeti> 24th of June? ode day before the ufo report o.O
23:52:43 <schillingklaus> some devuan derivatives just add a few default desktop confs and a few themes. Others go quite deep, such as fsmithred's efforts
23:53:23 <UsL> I'll check it out. Later™
23:53:40 <UsL> but sooner though. I'm intrigued.
23:54:21 <brocashelm> refracta by default doesn't even have pulseaudio installed :D
23:54:41 <fsmithred> Recommends are excluded.
23:54:51 <fsmithred> a few are included deliberately
23:56:29 <schillingklaus> recommends to systemd, pulseaudio, etc? or all recommends in the sense of debian/apt/dpkg?
23:57:02 <fsmithred> pakcage Recommends
23:57:18 <fsmithred> keeps the cruft down
23:57:43 <brocashelm> and i also like that abiword is pre-installed instead of libreoffice
23:57:45 <fsmithred> and it used to fit on a CD, but no longer.
23:58:03 <brocashelm> geany is a very good gui-based text editor
23:58:07 <fsmithred> abiword is so neglected.
23:58:18 <UsL> libre office is a beast. But it can do it all I guess.
23:58:39 <schillingklaus> what about gnumeric vs libreoffice-calc?
23:58:39 <UsL> I like geany a lot.
23:58:56 <brocashelm> i find abiword + gnumeric + dia to be good enough
23:59:22 <brocashelm> libreoffice can be "convenient", but at the price of drive space and performance (depending on cpu)
---------- 2021-06-08 ----------
00:00:01 <schillingklaus> I avoid all gui editors
00:12:14 <golinux> schillingklaus: We were already informed of your proclivities.
00:27:17 <findow> so many people around here
00:27:39 <findow> looks like its worth to install devuan and not be left alone
00:29:00 <findow> also anyone alive?
00:29:31 <schillingklaus> we are on sleep()
00:29:39 <findow> sleep or wait()
00:30:08 <findow> cool. coming back after install devuan
00:30:14 <findow> sysvinit or openrc?
00:30:25 <findow> i guess runit doesnt make sense if there are no runit based init files
00:30:56 <findow> i saw there are some on github /runit .. but only freaks go there to replace runit files against the basic files
00:31:08 <findow> so question is basically sysvinit or openrc.. i guess sysvinit is fine
00:33:13 <sgage> sysvinit is quite fine.
00:35:19 <findow> i think its most simple too
00:41:05 <golinux> findow: openrc uses sysvinit init files by default.
00:41:40 <golinux> iiuc, you can find some in various places
00:41:51 <gnarface> openrc is probably simpler to maintain in its purest form but sysvinit has a lot more support and the debian openrc we inherit is far from openrc in its simplest form
00:42:52 <gnarface> people run s3 and runit but they typically take even more work to set up the first time just again due to the lack of the amount of legacy support that sysvinit has
00:43:22 <gnarface> if you plan on changing it a lot anyway, pick whatever you want to learn the most about
00:43:31 <gnarface> but sysvinit is the one that has been tested with the most things already
00:43:44 <gnarface> so it's the one least likely to give you problems out of the box
00:44:50 <findow> i did a few tests yesterday but i couldnt see the benefit of runit or openrc
00:45:08 <findow> runit was a few seconds faster
00:45:21 <findow> all of them take the same files rc*
00:45:27 <gnarface> yea, the benefits of them are really just more about differing workflows for customization
00:45:32 <findow> so .. i will go with sysvinit
00:45:43 <findow> yes this i saw.. to make different or customized runlevels
00:45:45 <findow> and things like that
00:46:04 <findow> in my opinion.. "keep it simple"
00:46:24 <findow> i really appreciate this project.. its great
00:46:29 <findow> i also checked MX and antiX
00:46:43 <findow> but MX is too bloated and antiX too political :-D
00:49:56 <gnarface> well, if you have questions someone here usually can answer them if you're patient enough
00:50:01 <gnarface> response times can slow down a lot
00:50:13 <gnarface> we don't have a lot of problems to talk about around here
00:50:25 <gnarface> not problems with the distro, anyway
00:50:35 <gnarface> the rest of the problems get discussed in #devuan-offtopic
00:51:56 <findow> Ok thank you