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#2 Re: Off-topic » Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan? » 2018-07-13 14:30:04

Panopticon wrote:

Its just interesting or a preference maybe but im not sold on it. Seems like a waste of bandwidth.

I'm not entirely sure who's bandwidth it would be wasting...?

One could say that 90% of Debian use is a "waste of bandwidth" as much of it is from hobbyists running testing or unstable and not really contributing anything.  The same goes for Arch Linux and Gentoo use, to name but two others...

Panopticon wrote:

Can you tell me of any advantages using pkgsrc over apt?

As someone who admitted to not really knowing what pkgsrc is earlier in this thread, you seem very intent on dismissing it out of hand?

The obvious advantage is that you might be able to compile and run software which is not available in the Debian/Devuan repositories.  You will also get control over the build system, be able to set compile flags, to avoid unwanted dependencies such as avahi, pulseaudio, udisks2 upower, dbus, etc - a clear advantage over binary package management.

#3 Re: Off-topic » Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan? » 2018-07-13 11:12:14

The advantage may be the ability to use newer software than is provided in the Debian repositories and also being able to fine tune builds, etc.

I can't speak for Ottavio, but it may be just a preference or an interesting experiment.

While debianising source and building deb packages is ok for the odd package or backport, it's not really a rival to pkgsrc or the various *BSD ports systems.

#4 Re: Off-topic » Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan? » 2018-07-12 07:57:22

Ottavio wrote:

And another question. Is OpenRC similar to NetBSD rc init?

You can install openrc in NetBSD - if that answers your question?  In Linux you'd probably want to install it from the "base" system's package manager.

I recently found out about this from a post on the FreeBSD forums:

Looks like a new and interesting alternative to pkgsrc.  Sadly the latter never really gained traction and one of the few adopters outside of the NetBSD project, DragonFly BSD, abandoned using it as it's official ports system several years ago.  The only OS I can think of outside of NetBSD still using it is MINIX 3.

Panopticon wrote:

I don't think it would be a good idea to use a NetBSD package management system on linux, let alone devuan.

pkgsrc is a multi-platform "ports" framework for many types of *nix.  Packages compiled via pkgsrc don't install to the same locations or in any way impact the "base" operating system, by design.

#5 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox 'proper' » 2018-07-06 13:28:39

Just download the statically compiled binary in tarball form and you can install whatever version you like:

#6 Re: Installation » non-free available upon fresh install? » 2018-06-28 16:01:16

I believe the Devuan iso images include the proprietary firmware (much like the Debian unofficial iso images).

#7 Re: Other Issues » Firestarter » 2018-06-28 09:24:09

Caluser2000 wrote:

I went to force its removal with

apt-get -f autoremove

and that sorted the dependencies strangely enough.

Not strange at all.  By including the "-f" option, you instructed apt-get to fix broken dependencies.  autoremove is used to remove any  packages which are marked as automatically installed and which are no longer needed (i.e. the packages you installed, which pulled these in as dependencies are no longer installed).  The firestarter package was not marked automatically installed, so autoremove would not have removed it.

To remove the "firestarter" package, you only needed to use the remove argument and specify the package name.

It looks like firestarter is dead upstream, hence why it was removed from Debian.  The last upstream release was in 2005, it was maintained and patched in Debian up until 2012.

#8 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 16:07:43

You're right that script blocking could be seen as security related.  However just completely turning off javascript is probably the best approach, though not practical for most people.

I can manage to browse the web by selectively disabling those scripts which just aren't needed (advertising, tracking, etc related), but the average person usually can't manage this or just doesn't know about.  This is all assuming that 100% of the issue is javascript and nothing more...  you've also no reliable or practical way of knowing which scripts are dangerous and which are not.

Hence "secure by default" is the best approach and why sandboxing, privsep, etc are preferred and very important.

It's not so much "duct tape", as just correctness - in that the OS should never assume that any installed programme is "safe", never mind the web content it accesses.  It really boils down to that the OS should stick to the principle of least privilege.

#9 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » How to install nvidia CUDA on ASCII? » 2018-06-27 13:56:41

The cuda packages you installed were intended for an Ubuntu release.  You will probably have to purge all of those first and then install it from the repositories.

#10 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 11:28:07

devuser wrote:

Nothing wrong with chromium (chrome on the other hand...). It's a solid product. I've actually considered switching to it too but i can't get used to the UI and it's lacking when it comes to plugins (the main reason i used to use FF).

chromium, like firefox still comes out of the box with google spyware built in and enabled.  chrome is worse still.  Iridium is a chromium fork which does not.  Iridium doesn't seem to be available in Debian repositories, but they do provide a .deb package.  It's available in OpenBSD ports and for Windows, hence why I use it.

Last time I checked, chrome "phones home" when installed initially.  But I wasn't referring to privacy settings or anonymous browsing, etc.

UI wise, I dislike chromium/chrome/iridium, but have gotten used to it.  I preferred the old Netscape/Mozilla/Seamonkey UI, but common sense in UI design seems to be a thing of the past (just look at the gnome project).

devuser wrote:

Regarding security i don't see how process separation (i guess that's what you are hinting at?) is all that important though. While i'll have to agree that it's (at least used to be - i don't follow this all that closely) easier to turn an exploit into a compromise with FF we are talking about last line defenses when there is already major hole in the bucket.

I'm not familiar with "process separation".  I am referring to privilege separation (privsep).  It's important for browsers, due to the attack surface offered by modern browsers.  chromium was designed from day one with sanboxing and privsep in mind, where Mozilla have been retrofitting it to legacy Netscape code.

devuser wrote:

(is there anything even close to Random Agent Spoofer for chromium?).

Spoofing user agents is really a privacy thing, rather than a security concern.  For example, you can browse with tor, script blocking and random UAs, but a vulnerability in e.g. the browser, kernel, SSL (or in the CPU!) is still a security hole and could still compromise your system, irrespective of any extra privacy measures you've taken.

There are several user agent switchers for chrome, some offer random switching, but I'm not aware if they have the same functionality as the one you refer to, as I've not used them.

Regarding extensions, I have umatrix (better than what noscript has become by a square mile) and HTTPS everywhere installed.  The extensions situation seems ok, though again extensions always have to be researched an vetted rather than installed blindly.  The Seamonkey extensions situation is far worse...

#11 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 09:20:02

While we're into suggesting alternatives in preference to solving the OP's, problem, I suggest iridium or chromium.  Yes an evil google product, but actually better put together, does privilege separation better and as a result is more secure.

#12 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » How to install nvidia CUDA on ASCII? » 2018-06-27 08:07:06

stierlitz wrote:

I was able to install nvidia proprietary driver (using deb provided by nvidia) but I am stuck on installing cuda. I get dependencies error like this:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
cuda : Depends: cuda-9-2 (>= 9.2.88) but it is not going to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

The Debian package from the vendor breaks the dependency chain.  I hadn't realised that Nvidia provided a Debian package of the blob.  When I last used it, it was a still a shellscript.  Removing it and installing the blob from the repositories should be the first step to resolving this.

Looking at the  cuda version in Debian unstable, it's currently at version 9.1.85, so still older than the vendor version.  The version in the stable release is 8.0.44 - thus you cannot satisfy the 9.2.88 dependency via the repositories.

#13 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-27 07:47:51

Sanssystemd wrote:

I've tried both, on root i got a display (1024x768)
As a regular user i got nothing.

You have log files and the ~/.xsession-errors file to refer to.

Also once you run X as root you can break Xauth.  It's often necessary to clear up any of these dotfiles, before attempting to startx again as a normal user.

#14 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Firefox Oddities » 2018-06-27 07:41:34

Run firefox from a terminal emulator and see what output appears?

#15 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-26 15:46:20

I'm not entirely sure as to why you're issuing startx as root?  This is wrong irrespective of whether you're trying to run a rootless or setuid  You need to stop doing that immediately if you want to troubleshoot this effectively.

The whole point of non setuid is that it does not run the xserver as root (setuid xorg does), it's rootless.

Try issuing startx as a normal user.  Remove stale ~/.Xauthority files if needed.

If you still get the same error, then it's possibly due to some legacy video driver and you might have to settle for running the older with setuid root.

#16 Re: Installation » Black Screen on Devuan Ascii - acpi=off solves it (undesirable) » 2018-06-26 13:45:44

i965 is part of mesa/dri, it's not the kernel module, so that is in fact correct.

What exactly happens when you install elogind and libpam-elogind as it suggests and try to startx normally, rather than running the older xserver as setuid root??

#17 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Problem with package mate-power-manager » 2018-06-26 09:54:53

This may be worth a bug report, as mate-power-manager was originally systemd dependent.  So possibly some functionality is broken.  You will need to state which release you're using.  You could also start mate-power-manager from the console and see if it spits anything useful on lid close.

#18 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [Solved] Screen output at boot time » 2018-06-22 15:43:34

Altoid wrote:

But I don't have this problem when I boot PCLinuxOS.
That's what I have. (I assume it is what you are referring to)
I boot PCLinuxOS from it's own installation drive and use that same grub2 screen to choose to boot Devuan if I want to.

You have two drives, each has the grub bootloader installed, each can boot independently and boot either OS?  I'd expect you to have set up each to chainload to the other - but that's not a given.

As I've said, there are two ways of doing this - directly booting the kernel (this only needs one grub for the whole lot) or chainloading to the other drive and that OS' own grub and then booting from that.

No one can really guess as to how you have this set up, as thus far you have not posted the grub configuration files from both OS.

To clarify somewhat, you've stated that "PCLinuxOS" does not have the same problem.  So presumably this boots with the correct console resolution - perhaps native resolution and the nvidia blob is installed there too?

nokmsboot is a parameter you might need for both OS with the blob installed.  If you are going to continue with the blob going forward, then just keep that as standard.

#19 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [Solved] Screen output at boot time » 2018-06-22 08:34:57

Altoid wrote:

Yes. I am using the Nvidia non-free drivers.

That's most likely why you have a text mode console (e.g. 80x50 characters).

I can't really advise on your grub setup, but if you're booting directly rather than chainloading, this could be the problem.  The best approach is to either just install one bootloader on one OS and use that to directly boot the other, or set up that bootloader to chainload to the other's bootloader.  It's actually pointless to try and replicate the same setup on both.

#20 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [Solved] Screen output at boot time » 2018-06-21 09:34:28

The fact that you don't have a native resolution console, usually means that you don't have the console framebuffer loaded.

On most hardware made in around the last 15 or so years, once Linux KMS kicks in, your screen resolution will change to the LCD panel's native resolution.  If it isn't it may be due to some very old or obscure hardware or some changes you have made locally.

The other possibility is the proprietary AMD or Nvidia video drivers are installed?  As I recall these blacklist the Linux KMS/DRM stuff and load their own modules in their place.  But it's years since I've used any of those, so that could have changed.

I can't help much with grub as I don't use it, but it is only passing the console resolution you set to the kernel (bootloaders support passing all kinds of options to the kernel).  The best you will get out of it is probably going to be something like 1024x768 (but it has to be a supported VESA mode and not what you think your graphics adaptor or monitor can handle).

#21 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Enable Backports - Newbie Question » 2018-06-21 09:21:17

To my knowledge backports is not harmful and does/did not, by default, allow automatic upgrades anyway.  This is not, for example, like running testing with the unstable repository enabled and no pinning/default release set.

#22 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » ethtool --identify fails for ixgbe X553 NICs » 2018-06-21 09:18:36

Disclaimer: I have no foreknowledge of ethtool.

However, from a quick glance at ethtool(8), there appear to be a number of options to query the driver to see what functionality is supported.  So perhaps not a matter of unsupported hardware, but an unsupported feature?

#23 Re: Devuan » Devuan ASCII reviewed on DistroWatch Weekly » 2018-06-19 09:00:02

He installs on x86 virtualisation.  As a rule all of their reviews should be be based on an installation on bare metal.  He managed to install OpenBSD 6.0 both on a VM and bare metal (a laptop as I recall) and gave it a "fair", but undetailed review, so don't see why he didn't give this the same treatment...

From his review of NetBSD 7.0

When we boot into our fresh copy of NetBSD we are brought to a simple graphical login screen. Or at least I was, given that I had installed all the available packages. I found that I could sign into my user account and, upon doing so, I was presented with a blank screen. Shortly after logging in a mini terminal window would appear in the bottom-right corner and display login/logout and system messages. I was able to click in this terminal window and scroll through the messages, but otherwise the graphical environment was unresponsive to input. I was unable to type or click on anything, other than the message window, and I was unable to logout. In short, graphical software is present, but we do not have any desktop environment in which to work.

I'm just surprised that someone who has been around for so long and reviewed so many Linux distributions does not recognise, twm, xdm and a fairly typical xconsole setup when they see it.  The first thing on my mind would have been "mouse and/or keyboard not working".

My point here is, that I think his reviews get far more airtime than they deserve.

#24 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » I can not run software-properties-kde » 2018-06-19 08:18:10

That's not a good method of running a graphical programme.

Can you try the same again but run it with kdesu(1) and see if the same error occurs.

#25 Re: News & Announcements » The (almost) No Code of Conduct » 2018-06-19 08:09:53

While the troll behavioural analysis might be fun, it's merely an open invitation for "more of the same please".  The more of a big deal you make of this, the more of a big deal it will become.  I'm still not entirely sure how a low traffic forum with ~ 600 member, most of which are likely not active can have such a major troll problem, major enough to warrant the installation of countermeasures?  I can only assume I missed it, that's possible as I haven't been here in a while.

So far most members who have responded to this have requested that the countermeasures be either watered down or for the "threshold" to be raised.  This may indicate that the members who are not causing trouble may not be completely in favour of this, or may have some reservations.

Panopticon made a good point earlier:

Panopticon wrote:

The internet is a tool, not a social experiment in my opinion and those that want to use it for social purposes will reap the rewards good and bad. Im still analog when it comes to being social.

I would say that could be extended to "social experiments" where forum staff try to discipline trolls and "modify behaviour".

Sadly the WWW is what it is, some people won't fall into line and you really only have two options.

If someone enters your establishment and trashes the place, you don't allow them to remain on condition they wear a sign over their head.  You boot them out and be done with it.  That's really the only two options you have - allow them to remain or boot them out.

Perhaps if people post about "technical stuff" and just populate the forum with useful threads, this problem might solve itself.

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