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#2 Re: Installation » bood manager ?? » 2020-02-22 17:10:23

Ich dacht schon fast, die Sachsen kommen.

#3 Re: Off-topic » HyperbolaBSD Roadmap relevance to Devuan » 2020-02-19 19:30:10

1. Hitchhiker 3: wrote:

(41) ''I thought,'' he said, ''that if the world was going to end we were meant to lie down or put a paper bag over our head or something.''
(42) ''If you like, yes,'' said Ford.
(43) ''That's what they told us in the army,'' said  the  man,  and  his eyes began the long trek back down to his whisky.
(44) ''Will that help?'' asked the barman.
(45) ''No,'' said Ford and gave him a friendly smile.  ''Excuse  me,''  he said, ''I've got to go.'' With a wave, he left.

I think it's too early for last orders. Instead we just should continue to use Devuan.

#4 Re: Off-topic » HyperbolaBSD Roadmap relevance to Devuan » 2020-02-06 22:33:50

HevyDevy wrote:

I believe re-basing Devuan on any bsd, whether it be netbsd or openbsd etc would be missing the point of Devuan entirely?


In your words: Debian is missing the point of Debian!

Debian aimed at being the Universal Operating System providing a similar userland on different architectures and even kernels. Debian/Hurd and Debian/kFreeBSD seem to be the last  remembered survivors of this goal now barely living in some intensive care units somewhere in a hidden ivory tower.

So porting a De??an sibling to e.g. the NetBSD kernel, just would revive the old dreams.


#5 Re: Off-topic » systemE: a lightweight systemd replacement written in Emacs lisp » 2020-02-03 06:28:21

ToxicExMachina wrote:

Text editor: not yet (again)

The editor is fine!
Especially LP & RR with Org/Babel is fun. \o/

Ok. If I could get the same functionality based on e.g. Python, I wouldn't insist of doing it with a Lisp under the hood.

And unluckily with the De??an packaged Emacs I can neither use the WebKit features, nor Emacs as WM. But I'll get there... sommmmmmmmeday... currenly lots of more urgent things have a higher priority.

#6 Re: DIY » KISS: a new systemd-free distribution that aims to "keep it simple" » 2020-02-02 11:08:08

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Yes, source-based distributions are certainly an aquired taste but the customisation possibilities are interesting, especially with KISS' language-agnostic packaging system.

Endless possibilities... and only an AMD64 version?
Or am I just overlooking the hidden endless list of architectures and ports?

#8 Re: DIY » Howwww... aaaabout some Dev1 backgrounds, hey? » 2020-01-23 05:23:07

Tobyb1906 wrote:

Has anyone got the wallpaper by ThurahT please. The last one posted 14/10/17, unfortunately the link is dead all it leads to is a small image 450x 280ish. … pqjgmo.tgz

#9 Re: Installation » Mate: Ascii to Beowulf Migration » 2020-01-20 10:20:49

golinux wrote:

My brief encounter with Ubuntu about 15 years ago quickly cured me of the sudo thing.

For me sudo feels like a good idea. I do less as root if I only need to prefix the lines really needing superpowers with sudo. su -c '...' is ugly at best but de facto unusable for a focussed workflow and completely switching to a root shell makes one do everything as root and this increases the risks a lot. I did that long enough in my early Unix admin days and I did not cause disasters, but I really like being able to do less as root thanks to sudo and only can recommend using sudo or her younger sisters.

#10 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-01-12 01:43:03

Maybe the initrd complains about the missing firmware and after switching to the real root the module is found and so loaded when needed?

#11 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2020-01-09 04:16:33

GNUser wrote:

By virtue of not being Linux, OpenBSD (as-is) does not suffer from linuxland woes.

How long?
And what about the other BSDs?
In "The Tragedy of systemd" a FreeBSD member praises what systemd all does right and mentions experiments in FreeBSD to implement systemd like stuff that already have taken place but are fruitless up to now. I expect that to only be a delay instead of an end of such ideas in FreeBSD.

OpenBSD may resist a bit, byte or even longer. Never underestimate an angry Theo!   \o/

GNUser wrote:

By virtue of not being Linux, OpenBSD (as-is) does not suffer from linuxland woes.

How long?
What if the big players in the dimension userland start to insist that the systemd kernel extensions have to be present? Pulling systemd related implants from lots of ridiculously huge applications will converge to impossible because of the lacking woman power.

Optimism is caused by the lack of information.

#12 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2019-12-30 16:57:35

GPL ... HELP!!! Someone could use my code! Lets jail it for it's own security!
BSD ... Someone uses my code! YAYYYYYY! \o/

#13 Re: Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2019-12-30 16:56:02

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

But the BSDs have an evil licence that allows corporations to steal the code and not feed back their improvements.

If MS couldn't have used BSD's TCP stack for their 1st IP support, we'd have 2 only 82.783% compatible internets now.
Did that hurt BSD?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

One of the reasons why Linux has been so successful is because companies are forced to make their development available to all.

I heavily doubt this.

#14 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-28 14:46:50

aut0exec wrote:

Didn't go as badly as thought but not as promising either. :-/

This result's "we support exploring alternatives" suffix will not fruit.
This result will make some overly optimistic and/or inert users stay with Debian instead of looking for an alternative.

More is lost than gained with this wishy-washy result.

Let's just face reality: Debian is "systemd only" now.

Let's use a new thread for brainstorming forward.

#15 Devuan » Debian has fallen. What now? » 2019-12-28 14:44:13

Replies: 28

Topic lines need to be drastic...

Fighting Debian windmills from now to eternity does not look like a bright future.

Should Devuan switch to a different foundation now?

There are some distributions with a less bureaucratic packaging system which could be easier managed by a smaller group of developers. Some of them are currently only available as rolling releases but plugging in there for chiselling a stable branch with only changing stuff between the releases if security issues demand it could be a way to go.

Are there other ideas how Devuan could/should react?

Brainstorm on!

#16 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] Apt-get show one package per line? » 2019-12-17 06:09:02

Output formatting would need to shorten filenames to useless fragments or would need ridiculously long lines terminals which will hurt reading a lot if line lengths raise noticeably above 100 characters:

$ apt-cache pkgnames | awk '{ print length,$0 }' | sort -n | tail
53 ruby-rails-assets-markdown-it--markdown-it-for-inline
54 libmono-system-windows-forms-datavisualization4.0a-cil
55 libmoosex-traitfor-meta-class-betteranonclassnames-perl
55 libperl-critic-policy-variables-prohibitlooponhash-perl
56 libcatalyst-authentication-credential-authen-simple-perl
56 libcatalyst-plugin-authentication-credential-openid-perl
58 node-babel-plugin-transform-es3-member-expression-literals
59 libmono-system-runtime-serialization-formatters-soap4.0-cil
60 librust-wasm-bindgen+xxx-debug-only-print-generated-code-dev
60 node-babel-helper-builder-binary-assignment-operator-visitor

If the filenames may be on one line like in apt-cache policynode-babel-helper-builder-binary-assignment-operator-visitor , it may be somewhat readable:

$ apt-cache policy node-babel-helper-builder-binary-assignment-operator-visitor
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 6.26.0+dfsg-3
  Version table:
     6.26.0+dfsg-3 500
        500 beowulf/main armhf Packages

Simple post processing of apt-get upgrade's output from ^The following packages will be upgraded:$ to the end of the indented block following it would be no big deal. Maybe just throwing it as one line at apt-get policy $THAT_LINE would give a lot of version information, but sometimes more than one "candidate" for a package will show up and how do we know which one apt-get will choose?

Post processing a dry run of the upgrade process may be a way?

I currently have no deb-ish system with updates waiting to be installed, so no easy way to look at a dry run's output. :-(

#17 Re: Off-topic » This should be fun... » 2019-12-13 04:29:37

Have a look at how FreedomBox handles this:

Maybe publishing a list with open problems that itself is a bit less verbose already would be good enough for Devuan?

#18 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-12 08:41:13

If I can save some old hardware from being trash by using some blobs that upset the FSF, I will happily do it. I prefer environmental decisions over RMS's happiness there. So extreme anti-blob distributions cannot be my way.

#20 Re: ARM Builds » Is any work planned for devuan on the raspberry pi 4? » 2019-12-09 05:16:32

freemedia2018 wrote:

i would also be very surprised if debian didnt support raspberry pi 4 but devuan did. so, im assuming that debian either does, or will soon.

Debian will... if I remember a not sooo old talk by GWolf correctly...

#21 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 05:12:20

ToxicExMachina wrote:

It's not a good time for switching to non-linux OS. The greatest libre software environment need concentrated support of every user - not escape to weak freedom. It's better to prepare to fork Linux. I sure a lot of significant developers will support the fork.

There is no "one size fits all"!
And diversity is a good thing!
And the BSDs sure are an alternative and the BSD license is even more freedom than the dimension GPL gives.

Please tell what you do and why but don't tell others what to do or not to do.


#22 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-09 01:12:21

If Debian as base of Devuan falls off...

Let's hope Devuan has/finds a way but having some [plan b]s helps to stay calm in the rough sea.

I prefer an OS, I can use on the majority of my systems, so standard PCs and lots of ARM board flavours need to be supported. I can avoid to buy too exotic ARMish ones in the future, but Pi1..3 and some Allwinner based boards are here now and I definitely want the same flavour of OS on them (and in the future on RiscV) as on the PCs.

The release strategy...

For playing around, an additional De??an cut would be nice and I'd use it on the just for fun systems, but with stable+security(+backports), I just add what I additionally need to "/opt" and am happy. This mostly is stuff directly from the Git repos of some projects, so packaging it every few days would be plainly silly.

I just don't want an only rolling release based system. For some long running projects daily changing tools and libs are catastrophic but if security dictates, some updates must be tolerated. Fore me De??ian just fits this stable+security(+backports) scheme.

ChuangTzu wrote:

Well, before completely jumping the Linux ship....there is Slackware (or SalixOS)which has remained true to *nix standards while everyone else forked off.

Good old Slackware. I haven't looked at it for years... maybe even dramatic more than a dozen... I should play a bit with it again in VMs.

Voidlinux looks nice. Unluckily only a rolling release. If enough migrants from De??an gather around it, making a spinoff in a stable+security flavor could be a plan-b too.

But still my plan-a is using Devuan! Let the other ideas be emergency exits for a case we hope never to occur.

#23 Re: Devuan » Debian considering going systemd init only » 2019-12-07 19:21:36

My last frequently used Debian will be at least frozen when systemd-home wants to touch my disks and then it shall be migrated without hurry. I wanted to do this already for a longer time but laziness is soooo energy efficient... *sigh*

Systemd-home will be the last drop needed to get in motion with this one.
Systemd-home as motivation booster?  \o/
Who would have thought of that?  o:-Þ

#24 Re: DIY » No dbus and compiling FF » 2019-11-27 12:15:50

anticapitalista wrote:

2 people refusing to use capital letters in one thread...

Was that a capital "2" in your sentence?

Ok, and back to serious ... dear mods ... please chop this case discussion off and beam it into the offtopic section.


#25 Re: News & Announcements » ASCII 2.1 point release » 2019-11-25 20:47:46

(yeti@devuan2-amd64:3)~$ lsb_release -sir

...just regularily updated ... no reinstall since 2.0 days...

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