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2022-08-13
22:41:57 <auanta> does anybody know if the ARM64 version of Devuan is different from Maemo Leste?
22:42:09 <auanta> i'm about to find out
23:11:18 <sixwheeledbeast> Leste is Leste it's based upon Devuan.
23:21:14 <auanta> i just mean in terms of packages basically.. the functionality, the UI, the differences between them (if there are any) because there is an ARM64 image for Devuan
23:22:57 <fsmithred> auanta, you might ask in #devuan-arm or maybe joerg knows the answer.
23:23:08 <auanta> oh will do
23:23:26 <fsmithred> arm64 vs leste
23:23:32 <fsmithred> packages, ui, etc.
23:24:12 <joerg> #maemo-leste
23:24:17 <auanta> ok that's ok, thanks for directing me to the other channel!
23:29:46 <joerg> I don't even know which flavor of devuan maemo-leste is based on
23:30:27 <joerg> seems to me the question is like asking "how is ubuntu different from linux?"
23:30:38 <auanta> haha.. it's based on Beowulf
23:31:07 <auanta> I think of it as more like asking the difference between Ubuntu and Debian
23:31:15 <joerg> I think leste may base on any devuan that's needed for the target platform
23:32:19 <fsmithred> do those images have a desktop environment?
23:32:47 <auanta> @fsmithred they do. Nokia pumped millions of $ into it :o
23:32:56 <auanta> before later abandoning it
23:33:40 <auanta> it's pretty snappy
23:37:14 <joerg> AIUI maemo been based on debian and some details like init system and displaymanger etc been modified, and a lot of middleware added.
23:38:04 <golinux> Is parazyd still involved?
23:38:17 <joerg> I hope so
23:38:43 <golinux> I don't follow it at all.
23:39:02 * golinux misses him here
23:41:59 <joerg> golinux: you miss parazyd ? There's a user of that name in [Whois] parazyd is a user on channels: #devuan #devuan-arm #devuan-infra #maemo-leste
23:42:52 <auanta> my brain keeps wanting to read that as paralyzd
23:45:14 <joerg> auanta: you might find this thread useful to understand how stuff started https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
23:50:30 <golinux> joerg: I know he's around but silently not socially much . . .
23:55:35 <auanta> reading the thread.. what the heck is a gnuism and how does it break posix compliance..
23:57:00 <joerg> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9088426
23:59:22 <auanta> oh i seeee
---------- 2022-08-14 ----------
00:00:43 <joerg> but I don't see where you seen the term gnuism in that thread
00:00:53 <auanta> at the very end
00:01:44 <joerg> there's a number of *isms, particularly nasty: messyboxisms ;-)
00:02:20 <joerg> a special bastard child of bashisms
00:03:12 <auanta> lol XD is that when... you install a bunch of stuff and don't clean up after you're done / uninstalled it?
00:03:30 <auanta> or.. when scripts leave a mess?
00:04:13 <joerg> bashisms are special bash features used in scripts so those shellscripts won't work with other shells
00:04:25 <auanta> oh gotcha
00:05:10 <auanta> so messybox is when the non posix compliant shell leaves a system "messy" because of non compatibility?
00:06:34 <joerg> messybox is my nick for busybox, a monolithic supposedly smaller bourne shell / bash replacement, that nevertheless often has nasty little incompatibilities to bash, so when you install a proper bash as your primary shell to replace busybox, you might find yourself confronted with a messed up system that doesn't work or even doesn't boot up anymore
00:07:48 <auanta> it appears that they went with busybox
00:08:05 <auanta> because of GNUisms smh
00:08:13 <joerg> on maemo fremantle busybox was the shell and when you chenged user "user"s default shell to bash, the system didn't boot anymore
00:08:38 <auanta> let me try that
00:08:44 <joerg> it's fixed
00:09:06 <joerg> at least with CSSU, maybe even with PR1.3 genuine fremantle
00:09:49 <joerg> the funy part was that it killed the system when you used bash for USER default shell, for ROOT it worked
00:11:48 <joerg> thing to learn from that: always check your scripts against several shell implementations and avoid any *isms
00:12:59 <joerg> Nokia relied on a messybox bug in one of their mission critical bootscripts
00:13:33 <joerg> iirc eventually community provided a patch for the scipt
00:13:44 <joerg> user pali iirc
00:18:33 * golinux says Pali is a beautiful ancient language . . .
00:19:24 <joerg> [Whois] Pali is ~pali@user/pali (Pali)
00:20:54 * golinux won't go further OT
01:01:56 <auanta> who needs zim when you have emacs
01:02:22 <auanta> * has seen the light
01:08:59 <auanta> (that's Zim with a Z btw.. )
01:09:20 <auanta> it's basically a personal wiki running on GTK
01:09:33 <auanta> not minimalist at all :P
05:21:49 <brocashelm> i recently installed an rx 580 (two fans) gpu, which is in great shape, but always starts at 200 rpm and overheats if i don't use some sort of fan control software like corectrl. is there a way to force this in the kernel?
05:22:42 <brocashelm> with corectrl set to "automatic", fan speeds stay in 2120-2160 range, idle or otherwise
05:23:13 <brocashelm> https://dpaste.org/nTWrg
05:27:56 <gnarface> are you avoiding the non-free firmware, or is this with the non-free firmware that this is happening?
05:30:26 <brocashelm> i do have non-free packages installed
05:30:48 <brocashelm> firmware-amd-graphics
05:31:16 <gnarface> which release? last i checked, even the one in ceres was quite old
05:31:35 <brocashelm> my rx 550/560 cards were doing fine on their own without any tweaking (all of them are MSI models for the record)
05:31:49 <brocashelm> 20210818-1
05:32:37 <gnarface> sounds like a problem
05:33:03 <gnarface> do they overheat at idle too or just under load?
05:33:29 <gnarface> does it, i mean
05:33:42 <brocashelm> if i don't use corectrl or radeon-profile for the fan control, the gpu starts its fans at 200 rpm and takes a few minutes to go from 30 C to 40-50 C
05:33:48 <brocashelm> and it remains at 200 rpm
05:34:33 <brocashelm> i was almost about to return the gpu because i thought it was used for mining or worn out somehow, but then the software side applied a temporary fix to that, as long as i leave it running
05:36:55 <gnarface> wait so it doesn't freeze up or reboot or anything? it just looks like it's running hot? those might be normal numbers
05:38:25 <brocashelm> none of those. just very low rpm which leads to overheating if i don't intervene
05:38:47 <brocashelm> my rx 550/560 cards run fine on their own at 1400 rpm and 30 C idle
05:38:59 <brocashelm> no software needed to adjust the fans/power
05:39:08 <gnarface> i think you might be right that it's a bios difference
05:39:22 <brocashelm> i am using an lga 1151
05:39:27 <gnarface> i wonder if they'd admit to a bug
05:39:38 <gnarface> it might be worth trying a newer firmware-amd-graphics from upstream
05:39:51 <gnarface> if there even is one
05:39:55 <brocashelm> i updated the bios (dell) to the latest version from 2018
05:39:57 <gnarface> i think there is
05:40:13 <gnarface> i mean gpu bios
05:40:18 <gnarface> btw, not motherboard bios
05:40:20 <brocashelm> i went to the source repository and downloaded the files. would i just have to copy and paste the bin files from amdgpu?
05:40:31 <gnarface> sorry about the confusion
05:41:17 <gnarface> you might just have to copy the bin files, but i'd think if they're not 1:1 you'd have to make sure to delete any old ones that weren't replaced too
05:41:17 <brocashelm> so, i downloaded the latest from the git; paste the bin files (amdgpu) into /lib/firmware/amdgpu dir?
05:42:38 <brocashelm> renamed the old amdgpu folder and created a new one to place the new ones in
05:43:25 <brocashelm> 478 files (new) vs. 427 files (old)
05:44:56 <brocashelm> i wonder if there's a way i could configure it in the kernel modules or something to automatically set the starting rpm
05:45:15 <gnarface> good question... mine starts at 0
05:45:28 <gnarface> it spins up under load though, just not to where i'd want it
05:45:40 <gnarface> i'd spin them faster and leave them on at idle
05:46:24 <brocashelm> from that dpaste link i gave you, would you say that is a good rpm/watt/voltage/temp to idle on?
05:46:37 <gnarface> (same driver but a rx 5500)
05:46:51 <brocashelm> even when i'm playing supertuxkart on full settings, rpm remains stable, but temp goes from 26-31 C to 40-45 C
05:47:19 <gnarface> sorry didn't look at the paste, but i will if you use paste.debian.net even though i don't really have an answer anyway
05:47:30 <gnarface> mine runs hotter than that and someone told me it was normal
05:47:44 <brocashelm> yeah, i have an rx 6500 xt, but i didn't realize it's pcie 4, so i'll have to do a new build with it (it definitely works, but stops sometime when it says "missing usb device" or something in the message before the tty screen)
05:48:08 <gnarface> i suspect it's hardcoded in the vga bios and it's planned obsolescence
05:48:14 <brocashelm> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/17ca8f6e/
05:48:57 <brocashelm> on this machine, it's meant more as an emulation/retro gaming/indie gaming machine, so i keep temps as low as possible (31-39 C per core on idle with my i7-3770)
05:49:52 <brocashelm> yeah, a lot of new computer parts tend to be that way. that's part of why i don't overclock or do anything seriously demanding. i just want a stable gpu that lets me play my games smoothly without bottlenecking issues
05:54:41 <brocashelm> nope, that didn't work
05:54:56 <brocashelm> rebooted and it put me back on 200 rpm
05:56:32 <brocashelm> i'll have to keep corectrl running to keep my fan speeds stable
05:59:29 <brocashelm> just experimenting with lowering the rpm from 2100 to 1500 to see if the temps remain less than 40 C on idle (trying to get that sweet spot between cutting electricity costs and still getting a cool, robust performance)
06:00:22 <brocashelm> setting "automatic" (even on radeon-profile) would keep me locked in at 2150 rpm
06:03:51 <brocashelm> running at 1561 rpm, 27 C, 4.15 W, 725.00 mV now (according to sensors)
2022-08-14
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