Dev1 Galaxy Forum / A programmer should be a touch typist ?

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Wed, 30 Jul 2025 12:08:38 +0000

It would be interesting to learn the touch-typing skill of programmers and hackers that are wellknown. For example Dennis Ritchie ,Ken Thompson , Torvald , Stallman etc.. Also i think in the pdp era you would call that skill possibly @(4.25)touch-flipping since you had to constantly flip switches to enter a program to the memory.

Speaking of Stallman is documented the impact that hacking had in his hands and his general health. On the other hand Torvald seems he avoided serious health issues (although i remember a video of his room showing him coding standing). Maybe he was more aware of the negative consequences of such skills?

In the batch processing punchedcard era knowing that in case of error you would have to create (type) your program from start wouldnt make you very cautious and thus touchtyping would be considered maybe not so helpfull ?

The RSI argument should also be taken in consideration . There are many angles. From a personal angle i want to be able to type (assuming other input tech are not inhand) until late age. An objective like that surely would lower the ceiling of what would be acceptable touch-typing performance (from my view) .Assuming that keeping a highly touch-typing performance stresses my neuron more . On the other hand if i want to type only in my job until 60s then i could increase that performance thinking that damaged hand neurons is not a top priority..

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (SteveM) — Tue, 29 Jul 2025 15:57:36 +0000

Code contains relatively large numbers of non-alphabet characters, which are not as easy to type.

Yes, and code tends to not contain complete sentences. How useful is 120 wpm when typing out this random excerpt from the Linux kernel?

u64 dma_direct_get_required_mask(struct device *dev)
{
	phys_addr_t phys = (phys_addr_t)(max_pfn - 1) << PAGE_SHIFT;
	u64 max_dma = phys_to_dma_direct(dev, phys);

	return (1ULL << (fls64(max_dma) - 1)) * 2 - 1;
}

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Tue, 29 Jul 2025 08:58:49 +0000

Some comments from the J.Atwood post that offer contrary insights:

typing speed is only relevant if it obstructs your flow of thinking.

With modern IDE typing code is more like playing game, than like typing full words. You are constantly using shortcuts, choosing things from menus, and copying stuff. Also tabulation is completely different (and more important) in code, than in English (or any other language).

i’ve found that I’m more productive, when I type slower, and stops often to think about what I want to type next

So I don’t think fast typing is required for programmer. It’s rather the other way around - when somebody can’t write fast he is less probably a good programmer, because that means he probably hasn’t been programming a lot.

A good programmer won’t need to type fast since their code will be succinct and compact. it doesn’t matter if you type half as fast if your program is 4 times smaller than the fast typist’s…

In College, a professor said don’t learn to type. His reasoning was that you need you hands for your whole career and typing fast will bring on rsi, secondly by typing fast you will avoid coming up short cuts for doing repetitive tasks and being more creative.

I think you are wrong. What you are basically saying is: An artist, how can’t paint a wall very fast, will never produce nice paintings. How can this be right? Of course if the artist is exceptionally slow, he will never finish his painting - but ultimately mechanical speed is of less matter…

Code contains relatively large numbers of non-alphabet characters, which are not as easy to type.

Teaching someone to type is a lot easier than teaching someone to program effectively. What you are trying to do is to equate the entire profession to the easiest part of it. It degrades and lessens the profession to say that we are just typists.

In favor of touch-typing :

Non-typists won’t get this: typists write, while non-typists type and write. Typists don’t know they’re typing.
Would you ride with a driver who had to look at his hands every few seconds to find the wheel?

The root of it is that typing is an abstraction layer for what we’re really doing. The less barrier we have between our real task, and our conscious mind, the better.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn) — Tue, 29 Jul 2025 01:44:28 +0000

enjoyed Jeff Atwood's post enough to repeat the link visually accurately:

https://blog.codinghorror.com/we-are-typists-first-programmers-second/

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Mon, 28 Jul 2025 15:28:36 +0000

Strange i keep finding relevant info :
@ Bad Keyboard Advice from Programers by xahlee.info
@ To touch or not to touch-type , pros and cons by Xeh Lee.

Do not listen to programers for typing advice
If you are a programer, you probably have seen programers talk about keyboard, or how to press the control key.
It's all WRONG!
If you want good advice for healthy and efficient typing, ask professional data-entry clerks, not programers.

So encouraging touch-typing and bigger speeds without taking into account ergonomics could be a mistake. Meaning health considerations should atleast put a maximum time frame in which a programmer should exercise his/her touch-typing skills.
But interstingly Xeh Lee thinks that for a programmer of a blogger contrary to jobs as dataclerks it happens this :

Your whole day's keystrokes probably can be done in less than 30 minutes if you just type continuously

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Mon, 28 Jul 2025 12:43:41 +0000

Another argument again the importance of touch typing is that assuming the programming is a form of communication surely there is programming analogous to the blather (as to 'talk rapidly without making much sense').I've heard the argument that human (especially women) when socializing talk too much for various topics but that non-sensical talk acts as a socia-glue and it's very important (but in the social context not communicating with machinces!)

But again.. i've read stories of RMS being in nirvana codding state hacking teco and other programs in his mit ailab eden back in the 1970s where he seemingly was programming like talking to the machine.

And i think (sorry if i repeated that argument) that the idea-image of a programmer touch-typing-programming it has manager-wetdreams vibes. As a manager i would like to see my payed workforce sweat and be productive. And maybe that is the easies but perhaps the most erroneous way to judge programming productivity by expecting your programmers to touch-typing constantly like crazies.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 22:02:31 +0000

Links to related blogposts:

@ Coding: It’s Just Writing by Jeff Atwood (2008)
@ We Are Typists First, Programmers Second by Jeff Atwood(2008)
@ Programming's Dirtiest Little Secret by Steve Yegge (2008)
@ Bad Keyboard Advice from Programers by Xah Lee (2011)
@ To touch or not to touch-type , pros and cons by Xeh Lee.(2022)

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 21:22:29 +0000

golinux thanks for correcting my misplaced forum post .

As for your latest response. if you refer to the spiritual side i think you are right for the need of a spiritual awakening.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 21:11:29 +0000

chomwitt said: "I think i've made a mistake . I should have posted this post in Offtopic. Can be transferred there?. Sorry."

DONE!

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 15:33:39 +0000

Many species are tool makers. Sadly, the tools/solutions that humans create often prove to be more destructive than beneficial. We just keep bumbling along without much of a clue, following our whims (and profits) and more or less making it up as we go along. The fashions change. Tools change. Challenges change. But we never seem to learn that the solution is not OUT THERE or with the latest gizmo. The solution is internal for each and every one of us to discover.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 14:10:24 +0000

golinux . Arent we humans tool-makers and thus by extension machine-makers? Isnt that the part of our nature that elevated us above dinosaurs and thus making us capable of protecting earth from meteorites and other life-extiction events? Your logic gives me Dr. Stephen Falken vibes from the film WarGames.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 14:01:12 +0000

Or . . . you could turn off the machine and wander through a forest and understand that the machine is about to create an unlivable environment for our species.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (chomwitt) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 13:53:52 +0000

stargate thanks for the links. I found some interesting.

I think i've made a mistake .I should have posted this post in Offtopic. Can be transferred there?. Sorry.

Anyway i think the elevation of the touchtyping skill to a necessity (especially the way it was presented by it's original author) misses entirely the ergonomics and health issues side. The hands needs protection. And i forgot to mention that touch-typing could become obselete not by LLM-AI but by LLM-powered-speech assistant

I think programmers should support and try that tech . I imagine my self dictating code by voice to my computer even when my hands's nerves would become too fragile.

I propose a separate subforum for ergonomics and health issues of Devuan admins - users- programmers. The subforum would cover also accessability aspects of devuan. (elderly,disabilities etc).

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 13:48:21 +0000

@stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn . . . I found https://www.vhemt.org/ many years ago . . . possibly even before Devuan existed! I know I posted a link to that site somewhere on this forum but alas, atm my search fu sucks. The VHEMT message was not new to me. I had figured that out in the 70s and did not contribute the exploding population. We are definitely the most destructive species on the planet.

Re: A programmer should be a touch typist ?

dummy@example.com (stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn) — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 08:53:36 +0000

imagine what the planet would be like today if ALL the humans on the ENTIRE planet lived like the americans(mostly referring to the _earth_destroying_level_of_consumerism_ with a side-dish of several hundred years of global murder and mayhem)

_who_would_jesus_nuke_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

_slavery_is_alive_and_well_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristian_Williams

also see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

the whales can't wait til we're gone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_whaling

or:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY

and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration