If you don't want contrib and non-free enabled during the installation, then choose expert install, and it will ask. If you don't know enough to use expert install, your wireless firmware will be installed automatically, and you will be glad you have it. Especially if you can't do a wired connection.

It is somewhat difficult to access expert install on a libreboot device. So yeah... I wish I knew how to do that.

On Libreboot x200 you do not need any non-free firmware or anything at all.

Well maybe the ec firmware, at least until its unlocked anyways... hehe.

I understand that this is a very tall order, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there, Gnuinos would be perfect for this person to install, but s/he is not local to me and might not give it a chance if the live image is more minimal than s/he prefers.

S/he would probably be more receptive to several options to choose from than just one. I do not have any experience with hacking live CDs to make my own Freed Devuan desktop-live .iso but I understand that it may or may not be beyond my technical expertise, so perhaps I just need to be pointed in the right direction?

TIA and thank you for your time.

Never mind; I found the documentation section of Dev1 Galaxy.

* ath9k is free software and therefore comes baked-in with Devuan's default kernel as well as with the more strict linux-libre kernel.

If i'm not mistaken, it is on later kernels like ascii's 4.9, but not in the stable 3.16 kernel that's currently used in Devuan 1.0, so if you're running jessie you still need the atheros wi-fi firmware package.

While I agee with this reasoning, I must say, there should be a default devuan install with nonfree and contrib disabled by default.   Also, I think linux libre should be included as an option in devuan with obvious warnings of course! but yeah, if you have nonfree and contrib as options, you do get a larger base. 

I just hope someday that isn't required to get a large following. heh.

Yes, please.

linijkarz wrote:

If your hardware is not capable [of running with only free software] - you always have the option of installing requiring firmware but you have to specifically request it's installation.
This is a necessary step to ensure that Debian/Devuan can reach to as many people as possible and It's a very good compromise.

Well said! I'm totally sold on the advantages of free software (my laptop only runs software from the main repository, has libreboot instead of BIOS, and router runs LibreCMC) but I have to concede that Debian/Devuan's compromise makes more sense (for reason above) than completely eliminating the contrib and non-free repositories just to get an endorsement from the FSF.

By the way, a major reason why many people need proprietary firmware is for wifi. However, it is simple to swap a laptop's free software-unfriendly wireless card (e.g., Intel cards requiring firmware-iwlwifi) for one that is freedom-friendly such as the Penguin Wireless N half height mini PCIe card (available here), which uses the ath9k* module. I've done this swap many times and it's very easy--equivalent to a RAM upgrade except that there are more screws to remove and put back. The only thing to do after the swap is to uninstall the non-free wireless firmware you were using before, since you don't need it anymore

* ath9k is free software and therefore comes baked-in with Devuan's default kernel as well as with the more strict linux-libre kernel.

While I agee with this reasoning, I must say, there should be a default devuan install with nonfree and contrib disabled by default.   Also, I think linux libre should be included as an option in devuan with obvious warnings of course! but yeah, if you have nonfree and contrib as options, you do get a larger base. 

I just hope someday that isn't required to get a large following. heh.

If your hardware is not capable [of running with only free software] - you always have the option of installing requiring firmware but you have to specifically request it's installation.
This is a necessary step to ensure that Debian/Devuan can reach to as many people as possible and It's a very good compromise.

Well said! I'm totally sold on the advantages of free software (my laptop only runs software from the main repository, has libreboot instead of BIOS, and router runs LibreCMC) but I have to concede that Debian/Devuan's compromise makes more sense (for reason above) than completely eliminating the contrib and non-free repositories just to get an endorsement from the FSF.

By the way, a major reason why many people need proprietary firmware is for wifi. However, it is simple to swap a laptop's free software-unfriendly wireless card (e.g., Intel cards requiring firmware-iwlwifi) for one that is freedom-friendly such as the Penguin Wireless N half height mini PCIe card (available here), which uses the ath9k* module. I've done this swap many times and it's very easy--equivalent to a RAM upgrade except that there are more screws to remove and put back. The only thing to do after the swap is to uninstall the non-free wireless firmware you were using before, since you don't need it anymore

* ath9k is free software and therefore comes baked-in with Devuan's default kernel as well as with the more strict linux-libre kernel.

FOSSuser wrote:

…The manufacturer uses blobs …

… because they believe proprietary extremism works in their favor.
…
This may help.  Until our hardware is as open as our software can be, we'll always be relying on the integrity of manufacturers.

Yes, EOMA68 is a good standard to support. That guy is the reason I use devuan and not debian now,

and debian as good as it was, is slower because of systemd. That and the concerns of security are why I ditched debian for devuan...

so thanks devuan developers for forking debian.

Until our hardware is as open as our software can be, we'll always be relying on the integrity of manufacturers.

Open hardware is not enough.
You need to produce your own chips to really be on the safe side!

E.g. $THEY could add a tansmitter to your fully open hardware keyboard controller...

…The manufacturer uses blobs …

… because they believe proprietary extremism works in their favor.
…
This may help.  Until our hardware is as open as our software can be, we'll always be relying on the integrity of manufacturers.

The manufacturer uses blobs so that a piece of equipment can be used on a variety of OS. If they didn't, the equipment would cost a lot more.
It's a matter of economics & user choice.

If you want to stick rigidly to the FSF standards, carry on & do so, that is your right of freedom, I want to do useful things with my computers.
As long as the blobs don't interfere with my OS, I'm happy to use them so that I can use my equipment.

Meanwhile, please respect others' freedom to make their own choices, especially when you don't agree; it's their right.
There are many examples of a "Benevolent Dictator" curating a valuable toolset, including mentoring other curators.
Sadly, there are more examples of Freed Open-Source Software made almost completely unsupportable by extremism.

But who is quilty about that, users aren't... so why should users feel any frustation what company legaly do? Yes, legaly as i don't know any state on this Planet Earth where blobs are marked as criminal act.

Here recently, is Debian Policy 4.0.0.0 released:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a … 00005.html

That one is for Debian 10, more and more policies less freedom again Let quote whatever, let say:

No more debian menu system, new requirements to comply to FreeDesktop standards created again by companies... Gnome pushes this ans Wayland as it check app instead of window, blah, blah... again who asked users about anything

Or this Alioth replacement:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a … 00002.html
http://blog.snow-crash.org/blog/upcoming-alioth-sprint/

Ha, he, so reasoning here and there, blah. blah... and again they choosed Pagure as last candidate which is first candidate actually so it is not even choosen and again what Fedora uses funded by Red Hat

This is so boring... and i know about X Window System Trap

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.en.html

Stallman should write there about Wayland Trap Plus and all of its dependants as Trap Plus Plus... again, why people should fight and feel any frustation when companies do these shits in the first place? Even if it is open source it is shit anyway, sort of to some extend it is even worse than using pure blobs

edit: So when it comes to inconvinence - blobs, free software and open source have equal potentional, no one is safe there from the crap. Especially when it is introduced (a like to say pushed) as something called "standard"

It's about freedom as such. Not making anyone happy, who's promoting freedom.

I choose the freedom not to throw away my computers which need bad blobs.