Dev1 Galaxy Forum / Network Issue With Devuan

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 00:09:19 +0000

GlennW wrote:

noise

What a bunch of pretending pigs you all are.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (GlennW) — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 00:01:50 +0000

noise

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 23:58:14 +0000

Lazy developers and bug reports are internal distortions?
Maybe I was spending all the spare time I have contributing to other projects, you don't know that.

It's always the same, apologizing when I'm not the one at fault always gets me here, I saw you online for the past 24 hours and knew you were burning, I wanted to say something nice.

I was right about you, I should have left you speechless.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 20:46:20 +0000

@Jakoline . . .

There is a difference between what is said and what is interpreted through our mental filters. All humans suffer from these mental distortions and sadly build entire identities from the fictitious rationalizations and justifications generated from them.

You are only the victim of your own internal distortions and only you can heal them. Not to worry. You have plenty of company.

Devuan is on the track that it is on. Perhaps if you had stayed around and contributed, it would now be something more suited to your needs.

It seems that you have in effect, with your dramatic departure, self-banned. As everything in life, the choice is yours so best to choose wisely.

And finally a reminder . . . less is always more.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 19:41:10 +0000

Your apology should be directed to the Devuan community

Why apologize to people I did nothing to?

those who provided the information needed to correct the issue you experienced

It's a work-around, the solution will be to change the installer's default behavior under the condition of firmware + wifi + no desktop.

afaik (and please correct me if I'm wrong), never attempted to implement

Sorry, I've mentioned before that Devuan is removed, right now I finished installing and configuring Debian 10, going back to Devuan will be difficult, and to make things harder I don't have the luxury of virtual machines (for now).

I wrote this explanation, it's out of context and late but I'm gonna leave it here anyway to clear things up, please read it to the end and bear with me.

To @golinux:
My posts at Debian's forums were not adversarial, not as much as the adversary you carry towards systemd and noobs and Debian's decisions, which was the reason Devuan is created, and the reason that you wrote 2200 posts here at DevuanGalaxy within about 4 years, as oppose to much fewer contributions within more than double that period (11 years) at Debian's forums. I understand that being an administrator has to do with raising the number of your posts here, but not that much. Feeling adversarial towards something is the first step to change it.
When you tried to shame me, when you called me adversarial, what happened is:
A) You labeled my contributions at Debian's forums as adversarial, which is not true.
B) You paved the way for someone like Steve, gave him license & inspiration to write his long initial post and the ones he wrote after, which were all filled with cheap tricks. But what he's doing has now became universal, so I'm used to it.
I did not deserve to be told "LOL you're broken and useless", not that I liked what I've said to you either. I may have expressed my thoughts in a non-friendly way, but my points were all valid, looking back at my problematic post I don't see anything wrong with it, it was all authentic points to be addressed and discussed.
And to be righteous, I must say I'm surprised that bans were not used, that's something to say 'thank you' for.
To me, Devuan now is not on the right track, I know because I was there when this project started.

Farewell my friend.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:16:10 +0000

@Jakoline . . . Your apology should be directed to the Devuan community and those who provided the information needed to correct the issue you experienced but afaik (and please correct me if I'm wrong), never attempted to implement.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 12:53:32 +0000

My apology is meant for golinux NOT YOU.
As for you, quit being a hypocrite.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (steve_v) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 02:42:39 +0000

Right, now we're backing away from "You're mentally sick" with an apology?
Frankly, I expect you've thoroughly burned your bridges here already. You started this. You started swearing and rubbishing the Devuan devs while people were trying to help you. You then resorted to personal attacks.

Others might be more inclined to forgive this little tantrum, but I'm certainly not going to bother talking to you any more. I'm sure as hell not going to engage in the little game of semantic trolling you seem to be trying to start with your last wall of text.

As a wise man once said, plonk.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 01:13:59 +0000

To @golinux:

Emotionally I'm sorry, practically booting into a system with networking blocked is serious.

I see how much Devuan means to you, and that calls for an apology.

Feel free to delete my topic if you want to. but DO CONSIDER my bug report.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:27:49 +0000

@golinux I replied to you at the developers mailing list

The behavior of the Debian net-installer is not to install rfkill by default indeed, but is networking soft-killed in Debian by default? Because this is the reason rfkill is needed in the first place.
Read my report carefully, the expected behavior in my report IS NOT TO soft-kill (block) networking at all regardless of package rfkill, and to investigate what makes the installer behave this way ONLY WHEN wifi is used during the installation process.
Please do not ruin the bug report, leave it be.

I'm done here. If the developers wanna investigate let 'em investigate, if they wanna dismiss it let 'em dismiss it.
You sending them the link to this thread/topic is intentionally not helpful.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:07:26 +0000

Please stop stuffing this forum with nonsense or we will do it for you.

edit: Filing a Debian bug with Devuan will not get the "bug" you perceive fixed. File it directly with Debian.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:03:42 +0000

Anyways I've sent a bug report to 'submit at bugs.devuan.org' and a duplication to 'devuan-dev at lists.dyne.org'. I sent this bug report before seeing steve_v first post. Here is the full text of my 2nd (duplicated) msg:

I sent this bug report to the dedicated email but didn't receive the automated response, so I'm sending a duplication here.
Package: rfkill
Version: 2.33.1
Severity: critical
Problem:
Devuan 3.1 beowulf installer uses rfkill to BLOCK wifi networking by default on a fresh minimal installation, by minimal I mean that only 'standard system utilities' and 'print server' is chosen in tasksel, this happens in the absence of package rfkill itself which is needed to UNBLOCK networking. No internet plus no way to enable internet makes the system of no use or non-beneficial for most users.
Steps to reproduce:
1- Download and burn devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_netinstall.iso
2- boot you cd/usb and start the installer with firmware enabled
3- When asked about networking use wifi and proceed
4- When tasksel dialogue appears untick every thing and only leave 'standard system utilities' and 'print server' checked, we want a minimal installation without any desktops
5- After installation is finished remove the cd/usb and boot into your newly installed system
6- Login as root
7- Try to put your wifi interface up. You'll receive error 'SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not possible due to RF-kill'
8- Try using rfkill to unlock networking via command 'rfkill unblock wifi; rfkill unblock all'. Bash will tell you 'rfkill: command not found'
Expected behavior:
1- Networking should not be blocked by default, not by using rfkill nor any other method.
2- The wireless interface should be brought up by default on first boot because it was used during the installation, and my chosen wifi hotspot should also be running by default, most distros do that, they preserve the wifi configuration that was used during the installation (SSID & password), I think Debian too does it. Please investigate if it can be done in Devuan as well, for user convenience.
Note:
Strangely enough, as seen in steps to reproduce (step number 8), the tool that was used to soft-kill networking (rfkill) is actually absent from the system, meaning that it was only present during the installation and was used by the installer before shutdown and after all the work was done.
Note #2:
When using an Ethernet cable instead of wifi during installation this problem DID NOT occur.
Please see what you can do about this severe issue, maybe it's inherited from Debian, I don't know as I've never used wifi to install Debian before, I always go with the iso option that does not include non-free firmware, hence always using ethernet to install Debian, either way, please Investigate.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (Jakoline) — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 21:58:45 +0000

To user steve_v:

forums.debian.net is logically abbreviated to FDN, always has been, always will be.

The only result I'm getting for FDN is "First Trust Dow Jones Internet Index Fund" and other finance related results

Is taking the first letter of each word is enough to create an abbreviation?

TDP = The Devuan Project
DBTS = Devuan Bug Tracking System

Abbreviations has to be common otherwise nobody will understand it.

A) No, you weren't

Do you even know which post I'm talking about?

B) If you want respect, earn it. Like everyone else does.

Are you saying I can insult anyone because they have not reached my criteria level of respect yet? Earn it how? When do I know that I've earned enough respect according to you? Do I have to check with you each month? Should we put it to vote and see if I can pass 75% of positive votes?

Like everyone else does how? Can you show me examples? What if respectful people to you are dishonorable to me?

If you don't like this distro then I suggest you use it

I can act like you and point at your typo which would benefit me especially in this situation, but I won't

LOL was in use on BBS systems in the late '80s. You're clearly too young to remember

Does being young/old has to do with being wrong/right?
It's an insult in the world of modern social-media and that's all I care about, that's why he used it, and he called other names.

With the place so full of people who both expect some kind of special treatment (i.e. didn't read the "no warranty" clause in the installer and expect the equivalent of paid support for free), and can't be bothered with even elementary netiquette (e.g. not posting huge images of text)

Images of text is needed to ask about boot-time errors for example, no warranty to the extent permitted by law is a legal phrase, do you see me asking for a compensation?

What makes you think Devuan wants respect from the likes of you anyhow?

Watch your mouth.

you're expected to pay attention to what software you install

I did not soft-kill my wifi, the installer did.

Devuan ships a well-tested default desktop configuration with sane choices

ten terminal games is not sane, an ASCII webcam application that I don't remember it's name is also not sane
most of the launchers in the applications menu does nothing, then it's not well-tested.

yet you give nothing back

The hours I've spent translating free software into my language & advocating free software in my local community exceeds the time you spent in front of a computer screen your whole life. I stay positive when beginners ask their questions, something you can't handle.

Your poor choices and lack of prior research cost you time and data. Devuan is free

Are you saying that Devuan is a poor choice? See? I can play your game.
Lack of research? I'm the first one to post this bug report.

I looked the other way when you made similar accusations

No, you replied to me, back then you didn't have the desire to use anything against me so you replied normal.
I was polite enough that I said "at least the ones that spoke to me" because I wanted to be accurate and not curse people who did nothing.

some people installing Devuan aren't intending to use it on a laptop, or as a desktop

If they were not intending to use it as a desktop then it must be a server, in which case networking is a must.

if you're more interested in obnoxious ranting than in solving your own problems, I suggest you go back to one of the "easy-mode" desktop-oriented distros, like Ubuntu

My problem can't be solved because I'm in a technologically strapped situation and I don't have the luxury of reinstalling Devuan again, and I don't have the luxury of virtual machines as well.

I haven't installed Ubuntu on my machine or any machine or seen Ubuntu since ages.

Bottom line is, everything you've said is meaningless, you arguments don't add-up, you flipped all the facts just because you hate to see me talking to any developer in a bad way, you are using words and terms taken from me that I've wrote in Debian forums, with the exception that I wasn't trying to gaslight anything when I said them, the opposite, I was trying to be accurate, I was trying to document information to help anyone who comes by my posts in the future.

I can reply in detail to everything you've said, but I doubt anybody will read such a long msg.

Understand that by spending two days testing with Devuan I wasted bandwidth quota and time, I procrastinated some things and had to spend time without a functional system which caused harm to me and my work in many ways, I expected the transition from Debian to another Debian-based distro to be much smoother, I also spent some money on this experiment.

Thanks to people who provided solutions AFTER OR BEFORE this incident, and thanks to the one person who asked me to relax and avoid non-friendly tone.

https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=149820
(Proves which one of us has history of being disrespectful)

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:51:15 +0000

@Jakoline . . .To get back on-topic . . .

As per Head_on_a_Stick's post above, the behavior you described is present in the Debian installer so please file a bug with Debian if you would like that behavior changed.

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

dummy@example.com (golinux) — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 20:39:00 +0000

steve_v wrote:

golinux wrote:
Many have landed here . . .
True, though many more have seemingly just vanished.

Many have left the debian-based ecosystem entirely. I'm hoping it can hang together in a usable state till the end of my years on this imploding rock hurtling through space and time . . .