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		<title><![CDATA[Dev1 Galaxy Forum / new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
		<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3218</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in new encroachments of our least favourite init.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 02:09:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19091#p19091</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>The guy who does venenux used to hang around here.&#160; His most recent post was 2019-11-26.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (golinux)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 02:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19091#p19091</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19090#p19090</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>HevyDevy wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>I wonder what devuan elements they have put into this venenux. Distrowatch has them using systemd only but also saying part devuan part debian. Confusing??</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I went to their download page and saw this explanation:</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>The 0.X series are based on Debian and uses sysvini system, also all are live disc primary, ...</p><p>The 1.X series are based on Devuan and uses sysvinit system, and are install based disc and also package converters.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>And I went to the 1.x area and downloaded the only two isos that don&#039;t have &#039;debian&#039; in the file name:<br /><span class="bbc">venenux-minetest-1.0-i386.hybrid.iso &#160; &#160; 2018-03-20 &#160; &#160; 1.1 GB &#160; &#160; <br />venenux-liveob-i386.hybrid.iso &#160; &#160; 2018-03-15 &#160; &#160; 722.5 MB</span></p><p>The sources are all debian, not devuan.<br />I could find no packages from devuan installed in the live system.<br />They&#039;re using systemd.<br />If they have a devuan-based iso, I couldn&#039;t find it.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (fsmithred)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19090#p19090</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19083#p19083</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>freemedia2018 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>venenux is debian-based, distrowatch says debian-based and also devuan-based, but the latest download looks like systemd is the future of venenux.</p><p>if anybody gets or has more information, that would be nice to know.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I wonder what devuan elements they have put into this venenux. Distrowatch has them using systemd only but also saying part devuan part debian. Confusing??</p><p><a href="https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=venenux" rel="nofollow">https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=venenux</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (HevyDevy)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 14:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19083#p19083</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19082#p19082</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>venenux is debian-based, distrowatch says debian-based and also devuan-based, but the latest download looks like systemd is the future of venenux.</p><p>if anybody gets or has more information, that would be nice to know.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (freemedia2018)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2019 13:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19082#p19082</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19066#p19066</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>thats very impressive indeed. it sounds very much like gentoo is still gentoo, not some wayward drifting, frankenstein redhat thing.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (freemedia2018)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2019 19:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19066#p19066</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19064#p19064</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>The &quot;official&quot; Gentoo reply from Rick Freeman:</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>Gentoo has always been about providing our users (and developers) with<br />choices.&#160; As long as somebody is willing to maintain a service<br />manager, Gentoo will host it in our repository along with any<br />per-package configurations/scripts/etc it may require.</p><p>Gentoo actually supports a number of service managers. Our release<br />media/etc defaults to use OpenRC, though at times alternate release<br />media using other service managers has been maintained.&#160; Gentoo has<br />supported systemd as a service manager for years - long before it was<br />a default on most distros.&#160; Gentoo also supports other service<br />managers which haven&#039;t gotten as much press, and if a contributor<br />wishes to maintain a new service manager in our repository no policy<br />will prevent them from doing so.</p><p>Systemd has absorbed or replaced a number of previously-standalone<br />projects over the years (eg udev).&#160; In most cases Gentoo supports the<br />systemd implementation of these, alongside standalone forks of these<br />where they exist (several of which were created by Gentoo).&#160; To<br />varying degrees users can mix and match these as they wish, where this<br />is supportable.&#160; The default implementations are usually selected by<br />the maintainers of these components in close collaboration, based on<br />practical matters such as maturity/compatibility/etc, with the goal of<br />providing the best overall experience to users regardless of their<br />choice of service manager.</p><p>Gentoo in general tries to stick close to upstream and this is true of<br />our service managers.&#160; We do not generally apply compatibility layers<br />so anyone using a non-systemd service manager will not see any kind of<br />interaction with systemd units/etc.&#160; Likewise systemd users will get<br />an upstream-like systemd experience and will not see any kind of<br />interaction with OpenRC scripts/etc.&#160; As a result it is possible to<br />run a Gentoo system without any trace of systemd, or without any trace<br />of OpenRC/sysvinit.</p><p>As Gentoo has always been about providing choices to our users we<br />generally do not prohibit software from existing in our repositories<br />unless it is simply impossible due to legal/etc concerns.&#160; Gentoo<br />users and contributors are free to use or support the software they<br />wish as a result.&#160; While Gentoo has certainly not escaped some of the<br />divisiveness/etc around systemd implementations, argument is actually<br />fairly rare these days because the various choices individually work<br />well enough that those who prefer or reject systemd don&#039;t really feel<br />much encumbrance from the actions of the other group.&#160; This might be<br />why you were under the impression that Gentoo support for systemd is a<br />recent change - little has changed in the recent past, and there is<br />little reason to expect any kind of disruption to Gentoo users who<br />prefer to not use systemd (which is our default anyway).</p></div></blockquote></div><p>As a response to my request for permission to quote him he quantified his earlier reply as follows:</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>Keep in mind that this is just a general explanation of<br />how Gentoo treats systemd (and really just about any package) in<br />general, and isn&#039;t any kind of particular reaction to any issue/etc.<br />Any policy can be subject to change, but this state of affairs has<br />been stable for some time so I don&#039;t expect that is likely.&#160; And of<br />course eventually new service managers will likely replace both OpenRC<br />and systemd - it is just the nature of FOSS to improve, just as OpenRC<br />and systemd both replaced service managers that came before them.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>HTH!</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Dutch_Master)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19064#p19064</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19063#p19063</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>freemedia2018 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>thanks if someone let the post through, its posted.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I didn&#039;t touch it.&#160; By the time I read your post, it was already there.&#160; Perhaps you are too impatient . . .</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (golinux)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19063#p19063</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19055#p19055</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>thanks if someone let the post through, its posted.</p><p>dutch, thank you as well.</p><p>steve has replied, im also interested in yours if you get permission: <a href="https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20191218.112758.e7b13615.en.html" rel="nofollow">https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/2 … 15.en.html</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (freemedia2018)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19055#p19055</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19054#p19054</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I have received a reply from Rich Freeman from the Gentoo project but am awaiting permission to post it in this thread. Stay tuned (I hope!)</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Dutch_Master)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2019 07:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19054#p19054</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19053#p19053</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>well i asked, but i included a url and im guessing that too has to be moderated, it hasnt hit the page yet: </p><p><a href="https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/dng@20380101.000000.00000000.en.html" rel="nofollow">https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/dn … 00.en.html</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (freemedia2018)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19053#p19053</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19039#p19039</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Dutch_Master wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div class="quotebox"><cite>freemedia2018 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>i would be very interested in hearing more. if and when you do, naturally.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I shall, of course. Otherwise I wouldn&#039;t have mentioned it <img src="https://dev1galaxy.org/img/smilies/wink.png" width="15" height="15" alt="wink" /></p></div></blockquote></div><p>at this point im so curious what he meant, i intend to ask him anyway.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (freemedia2018)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19039#p19039</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19038#p19038</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>freemedia2018 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>i would be very interested in hearing more. if and when you do, naturally.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I shall, of course. Otherwise I wouldn&#039;t have mentioned it <img src="https://dev1galaxy.org/img/smilies/wink.png" width="15" height="15" alt="wink" /></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Dutch_Master)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19038#p19038</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19037#p19037</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am with Gentoo on my server and lurking in gentoo forums. Some of their users do not like what happens with the OpenRC project, me neither. I keep the old version 0.17 on my server, just for example. Since I am not good with politics talk and such, I just give some links you may follow/read:</p><p>Google search on f.g.o.: <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforums.gentoo.org+openrc+william&amp;oq=site%3Aforums.gentoo.org+openrc+william" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A … rc+william</a></p><p>Most interesting threads found (on a quick glance):</p><p>systemd discussion: agree to disagree: <a href="https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1084948-start-175.html" rel="nofollow">https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1 … t-175.html</a></p><p>williamh pushing usr merge: <a href="https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1042384-start-100.html" rel="nofollow">https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1 … t-100.html</a></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (geki)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19037#p19037</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19036#p19036</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Dutch_Master wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>Which is why I fired an email towards the Gentoo PR people so we can get an &quot;official response&quot; from Gentoo directly. The email has yet to be answered, but given that it&#039;s only 2 days and weekend to boot (s&#039;cuse the (bad) pun <img src="https://dev1galaxy.org/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" /> ) I&#039;m not too bothered about that, for now.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>i would be very interested in hearing more. if and when you do, naturally.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (freemedia2018)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19036#p19036</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: new encroachments of our least favourite init]]></title>
			<link>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19035#p19035</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>freemedia2018 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div class="quotebox"><cite>HevyDevy wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><p>what are you not impressed with?</p></div></blockquote></div><p>the repos and the reliability of upgrades.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>fair enough, though in my experience voidlinux has gotten a lot better in this regard.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (HevyDevy)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2019 10:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19035#p19035</guid>
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