I do not need gimp....I get by with mtpaint if interested.

apt info mtpaint
Package: mtpaint
Version: 3.40-3+b1
Priority: optional
Section: graphics
Source: mtpaint (3.40-3)
Maintainer: Muammar El Khatib <muammar@debian.org>
Installed-Size: 1,782 kB
Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libc6 (>= 2.14), libcairo2
 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), 
libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libgif7 (>= 5.1), libglib2.0-0 
(>= 2.31.8), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0), libjpeg62-turbo (>= 1.3.1),
 libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), 
libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpng16-16 (>= 1.6.2-1), 
libtiff5 (>= 4.0.3), libx11-6, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.0), gtklp
Homepage: http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/
Tag: field::arts, interface::graphical, interface::x11, role::program,
 scope::application, uitoolkit::gtk, use::editing,
 works-with-format::TODO, works-with-format::gif,
 works-with-format::jpg, works-with-format::png,
 works-with-format::tiff, works-with::image, works-with::image:raster,
 x11::application
Download-Size: 521 kB
APT-Manual-Installed: yes
APT-Sources: http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main amd64 Packages
Description: painting program to create pixel art and manipulate digital photos

Removing pulse sometimes breaks Xfce metapackage

Not in my tests.

The xfce4 metapackage lists xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin as a dependency but PA is only in the Recommends list for that package (and even that is only for beowulf, the ASCII version doesn't list it all) and so can be removed without breaking things.

But libpulse0 won't be used if PulseAudio isn't running. It's a bit like the situation with libsystemd0 in Devuan's initial release.

empty@E485:~ $ apt-cache rdepends gimp | grep pulse                                      
1|empty@E485:~ $

I've definitely run GIMP without PA.

I would try re-installing it again afterwards, that should work.

I'm stuck there.. I have removed every part pulse. Except libpulse0 if I am running gimp.
I have installed around dependencies however, libpulse0 is hard wired into gimp as far as I can tell.
I tried

 apt install gimp libpulse0- 

fails to install. It's quite unfortunate Removing pulse sometimes breaks Xfce metapackage. But if you install it in parts it doesn't seem to need it at all for xfce4.

But libsdl1.2debian requires libpulse0 and I can't seem to get around that. Which gimp needs.

empty@E485:~ $ apt-cache rdepends gimp | grep pulse                                      
1|empty@E485:~ $

I've definitely run GIMP without PA.

I would try re-installing it again afterwards, that should work.

As for the other programs, try it and see. I'm sure I've had audacious & vlc working without PA, and QEMU.

Do you know if i can get rid of gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio, libpulse0 and libpulse-mainloop-glib0 without running into issues with software that might depend on them?

Simulate a removal:

apt -s purge gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio libpulse{,-mainloop-glib}0

I think the Xfce desktop metapackage includes libpulse0 as a dependency, check earlier in the thread for details.

Apparently Firefox depends on pulseaudio and i need to have apulse installed to have sound in Firefox? I'm wondering because i don't have it installed and my sound works just fine.

The firefox-esr package in the Devuan repositories does not depend on PulseAudio and is compiled with --enable-alsa so it doesn't need apulse for sound without PA.

Mozilla's FF tarball isn't compiled with that option and so needs apulse for sound if PA is not present.

Also Pulse has a fair amount of dependencies which is a pain to deal with. Installing pulse on a system without pulse is actually annoying because it seems to require a full restart to get it working or maybe some fooling around with running Daemons.

fsmithred wrote:

It also helps to exclude Recommends.

are recommends still on by default? didnt debian change that after foisting systemd? (around 2014-2015?)

Yes, you still get Recommends by default.

It also helps to exclude Recommends.

are recommends still on by default? didnt debian change that after foisting systemd? (around 2014-2015?)

$ aptitude why pulseaudio
i   task-xfce-desktop       Depends    xfce4                  
i A xfce4                   Depends    xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
i A xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends pulseaudio             

One good way to avoid pulling in packages you don't want is to only install the standard system utilitites and then add what you want after rebooting into the system. It also helps to exclude Recommends.

@steelpillow: you prefer a skirt? (or kilt)

That would be awesome I'm using version 45 of GNUIcecat which still uses alsa so an up to date browser like that would be cool.