QT5 has already developed close dependent puppet strings with the init system in debian.

Otter Browser (Opera 12 style) is nicer than "Opera": https://otter-browser.org/

QT5....yuck.

Webkit engine again though (but original webkit rather than blink/chromium).

There is also Vivaldi, which is closed source, but from one of the original Opera software founders.

I hope that Palemoon becomes a serious contender. Ever since the Mozilla
team decided to deprecate ALSA (as a primary backend on linux) and forced
users into the Pulseaudio way (who wrote it ... yup, red hat poettering), I stopped
caring about firefox.

I actually think that it may be better altogether if mozilla disbands - because it is
evident that all hope is lost with them. This is not just pulseaudio by the way;
alienating developers by deprecating their work out of nowhere; claiming to be
a privacy-respecting organization but then using google analytics "because it
is so useful"; being unable to use C++ and so inventing a new language altogether
(rust ... what the ...); making changes that are irrelevant for many old powerusers
and so on and so forth. They are killing firefox, either out of stupidity or deliberately,
so we really need more real alternatives. I actually don't even think that browsers
in general should be COMPLEX. They should be simple, lean, flexible but
also USEFUL and modular.

I don't have pulseaudio and don't want it. Firefox keeps on trying to auto-update
all the time, even when I set that it shall not do so via about:config. If it auto-updates,
I lose all audio in the browser because I don't have pulseaudio. Isn't it weird when a
company auto-updates you and you lose sound in the process? The canceling of
auto-update via about:config also does not work 100%; I still get the main firefox
widget that keeps on nagging "you should upgrade because a new version has
been released". And I found no way to disable that nagging widget either. I tried
with ublock origin to block it away but unfortunately it only blocks external stuff,
not fireox-pester pop-ups.

As a backup browser I use opera. Opera uses google chrome unfortunately so it
is just a copy-cat but ... I simply need to get things done. I can't use linux
without browsers, they are that important. :\

Ever since I got pale moon back I have not played a single utube video that had a problem, so it must be a hw related issue.

Yeah Palemoon works great, plays youtube fine and everything else too. Have not checked Midori with alternate video site or local, will do so, I don't know if flash works or not as i'm not installing that garbage ever again. Adobe can take a long walk off a short pier as far as i'm concerned.

Ever since I got pale moon back I have not played a single utube video that had a problem, so it must be a hw related issue.

Flash is dead, it is done, after all this trouble it caused for more than a decade they pulled the plug.  I hope adobe's stock-holders end up on the street begging for bread.  Not my bread!

Too bad, I like it otherwise, but gonna have to give up on it for now.

It's quite normal for a deb file to be packaged with docs such as AUTHORS, BUGS, NEWS, README, TODO, changelog, copyright.  Doubtless there are countless more examples.  A static library (.so) by comparsion may be tiny compared to it's documentation.

The only way around this is to repackage, or base your system off something other than Debian.  Deleting files externally to the package manager means they come back when packages are upgraded or reinstalled.  Same with any unwanted locales installed in /usr/share/locale/

Contrary to popular belief, Debian (and by inheritence Devuan) just isn't a light system.  It's a general purpose distribution.

Absolutely, and that's part of the fun for me, I could run a real lightweight distro easily enough, but you often have to sacrifice a lot to do so.

I have notes in Vuu-do about the subject of updates changing/adding things, all I can do is start it off small for folks that use it, after that they can choose to continue that policy or not. I do provide extensive documentation about what i've done and how folks can do it too though, it's not too hard, as mentioned above setting Bleachbit to do the work for you in one fell swoop is handy as a shirt pocket.

The only way around this is to repackage, or base your system off something other than Debian.  Deleting files externally to the package manager means they come back when packages are upgraded or reinstalled.  Same with any unwanted locales installed in /usr/share/locale/

Contrary to popular belief, Debian (and by inheritence Devuan) just isn't a light system.  It's a general purpose distribution.

As far as I know it's not going to remove unwanted deb packages for you and resolve dependencies.  Thus I'm not entirely sure how it will make Midori browser, "lighter".

Semantics is all. It doesn't make Midori lighter, it makes the system lighter. Removing translations and other cruft. You will have to make a custom cleaner to deal with the docs in /usr/share/doc.

And it will remove some unwanted .debs, it has an Apt cleaning section and you can set it to delete the auto-removeables.

Cruft. there are thousands of packages in the repo in which the actual executables are a tiny fraction of the package size, some have changelogs that go back to the 90's and are huge.

I was looking at one today, it was listed in Synaptic at 613 kb, but 554 kb of that was all docs and none of them were any kind of manual or help in any form/

As far as I know it's not going to remove unwanted deb packages for you and resolve dependencies.  Thus I'm not entirely sure how it will make Midori browser, "lighter".

To remove unwanted deb packages there is an autoremove option to apt or apt-get, another package manager front end, aptitude, is also good at cleaning up unwanted cruft.  It might help you "slim down" your installations.

greenjeans wrote:

Doesn't seem quite as nice as last time I tried it, but it's certainly lightweight, the depends had some heft but not bad (and some of that will go bye-bye as soon as I run bleachbit).

Getting a bit offtopic here, but bleachbit is a "cleaner" application.  It does not and should not be touching any installed binary packages, and it certainly should not be run as root regardless.  This pretty much only leaves your /home/your_user directory.

Well I don't sweat the off-topic part of it, but it is an opinion, one I don't share after many years of using Bleachbit.

Bleachbit isn't capable of modifying binaries without some extra code. The default settings don't touch system files that are critical, you would have to write a custom cleaner to even do so. Bleachbit in normal use is only a quick shorthand app to do cleaning a user should normally do anyway, linux is not perfect and some files never get truncated or deleted in a timely fashion and you get ginormous logs, xsession-error files etc.

The root account gets clogged up too if you use it a lot, which I do, some folks run as root all the time.

It's completely configurable, and you can turn off anything you don't want touched. I set all the default settings for Beachbit in Vuu-do, and they are the same settings i've used for the last almost 8 years that i've been using it. Literally several tens of thousands of times that I have run Bleachbit, and I have yet to have a problem. I even write distro-specific custom cleaners from time to time and they always work well. Bleachbit has saved me cumulatively many hours over the years of having to do all the stuff by hand before I make an iso run.

Doesn't seem quite as nice as last time I tried it, but it's certainly lightweight, the depends had some heft but not bad (and some of that will go bye-bye as soon as I run bleachbit).

Getting a bit offtopic here, but bleachbit is a "cleaner" application.  It does not and should not be touching any installed binary packages, and it certainly should not be run as root regardless.  This pretty much only leaves your /home/your_user directory.

Doesn't seem quite as nice as last time I tried it, but it's certainly lightweight, the depends had some heft but not bad (and some of that will go bye-bye as soon as I run bleachbit).

On first glance, it takes some configuring, had to work to figure out how to put a Home button in the toolbar. And currently it's missing icons used for the new tab button, and also for the address bar, both places are giving me the little red X. It recommends gnome-icon-theme so i'm guessing maybe it's using a gnome-specific icon name for both...arrgh...have to check the damn source now and find out what it is, as I sure as hell ain't gonna re-install those icons.

ETA: Ahh, neither my main icon set or hicolor had the icons it wanted, found them in Adwaita by specifying a fallback in the ~/.gtkrc, will make some for Oxy2-ZEN.

I will take it for a spin the next week or two, it may work out. Certainly love to hear anyone else's impressions if they try it.