I ask step by step instructions on how to install lxqt on Devuan.

LXQT is available as a desktop choice in the new Ascii .isos.

/etc/systemd, /lib/systemd and /var/lib/systemd are directories.

Anything in /usr/share/man/ is irrelevant as are the lintian files

/lib/systemd/system/* seems like files (services?) relating systemd/udev?

None of the above are binary as far as I know.

The only binary is libsystemd0, which is essentially useless cruft without systemd installed.

I suppose it's the same with any package, you get cruft which relates to software you don 't use and don't install.

udev is, of course, part of the systemd source.

Well, this is why I am warning Miyo about LXQT, it may be harder to deal with than the good old trusty lxde.

Thanks fungus. So far, LXQt has done great! It's light, fast, stable, and a workhorse!

Check this out. First will be from the LXQt build; in which, I've installed all of the things that I want and need to use.

root@miyo-lxqt:/home/dan# uname -a
Linux miyo-lxqt 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.51-1 (2017-09-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux
root@miyo-lxqt:/home/dan# find / -name systemd*
/etc/systemd
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.pm
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.desc
/usr/share/lintian/data/systemd
/usr/lib/systemd
/var/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd
root@miyo-lxqt:/home/dan# dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libsystemd0:amd64                    232-25+deb9u1  

Now, here's my very basic Miyo-XTRA. This is on a separate partition, and I use it to solely do all of my online banking and/or shopping. The only package that I've added onto the basic installation of this Miyo is Firefox-ESR...

root@miyolinux:/home/dan# uname -a
Linux miyolinux 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.43-2+deb8u5 (2017-09-19) i686 GNU/Linux
root@miyolinux:/home/dan# find / -name systemd*
/etc/systemd
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-control.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.service.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man8/systemd-udevd.8.gz
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.desc
/usr/share/lintian/checks/systemd.pm
/var/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udevd.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-udev-trigger.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-control.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd-kernel.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-settle.service
/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
root@miyolinux:/home/dan# dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libsystemd0:i386                  215-17+deb8u7                      i386         systemd utility library

That pesky udev...

In the case of 'qupzilla', at a glance, it seems to pull in the whole Qt kitchen sink.  libsystemd0 is also part of that dependency chain.  I didn't go in depth, but there may be other systemd dependencies for the package, as packaged for Debian unstable.

Firefox on the other hand isn't (or wasn't) toolkit dependent and is more monolithic.

I also undertand your explanation of debian's chain dependency, it just seems that it is suspiciously extreme to get a game pkg to play sudoku and it requires a specific init system and device management.  It is an extreme example that may not be true but I think you get my drift.

I think I was wrong with my assumptions of the independence of QT.

That's often the case with assumptions.  Qt, as with many so called "open Source" projects, has corporate entanglement and allows commercial licensing.  However...

It's important to understand how dependency resolving package managers work.  Debian's in particular is a complex mass of dependency chains, with fragmented packages (usually one source package builds many smaller packages, rather than one big binary package), meta packages, dummy packages, etc.  It's designed to pull in and resolve all dependencies for all use cases, it's not designed to make ideological decisions, for example it's not going to cater to people who don't like gnome or don't like software from a certain developer - and as you're mixing repositories it's not surprising that things don't work as intended.  And as Debian is to all intents and purposes a systemd (+gnome) distribution, it's no surprise at all that it pull in systemd.

It's the second one - a Debian (or distribution specific) issue.  The dependency chain will "link back" to, mostly freedesktop.org, userland components which will link to systemd userland components, which in turn pull in systemd itself.  This is because packages were built with systemd flags enabled and so in order to produce a working system for everyone, those systemd depencencies have to be listed in the package's control file.

The Debian approach to leaving out systemd is to run it with systemd-shim as far as I know?  This means it's acceptable to install systemd in all cases, but not run it as the init daemon ("PID 1") if the user has installed a different init system (this is probably what equates to 'init choice' for some).  This is why your mixture of Devuan and Debian unstable, while it works for now, will ultimately fail.  You will - at some point - hit a nasty broken dependency, where the only solution is some in depth 'package management foo'.

Rather than installing stuff from Debian's unstable branch, I suggest that you might be better off porting the newer upstream releases of your top favourite software over to Devuan (building from source and packaging them).  This allows better control over dependencies - especially with respect to systemd - installing binary packages from another distribution gives you no control at all.

Of course.

So I tried the installation of qupzilla from the sid repository to see what it depends on (I knew of some libwebkit5 stuff) and WOW!!!
It wanted to get rid of eudev, sysvinit, and a whole bunch of core devuan stuff and install among 30 other things systemd!
This is a browser based on Qt that is supposed to be not just system independent but even desktop independent.
So all these tied up chain is based on QT stuff that are linked to systemd. 

So, I think qt needs a close up look and maybe it is not as innocent.  Or is it that debian links all this together as a chain?
The same exact package on Devuan now is intallable and it only brings in a couple of other files, webkit5 and some libwebkit...

I am stunned!  This means that most of Qt stuff will be further delayed before it makes its way from Debian to Devuan.

WHY would a browser require direct access to system devices and how would firefox not need this much but a 3rd class project like qupzilla would be so hw intensive?  Back to palemoon?  I feel I've been running in circles.

https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/139

I think it is time to quit your day job.
People are dumping ubuntu for miyo!
Let me know when you'll start hiring

L...O...L!!! Unfortunately, I'm just a guy who has figured out a few things.

I remember when I first started using Linux. It wasn't because I wanted to; it was because I had to. Our circa-Windows Vista computer became unusable. It was either do something (install Linux) or have no computer.

I didn't know what I was doing, but I somehow got Ubuntu installed on it. It was so slow, but it was better than nothing. At that time, I knew nothing about RAM, CPU, firmware, hardware, etc... (the computer had less than 1 GB of RAM...no wonder Ubuntu didn't perform too well). I eventually installed Zorin Lite, and it did much better.

I remember asking a few questions on some Linux forums and being told that I needed to...

cd into this

chroot into that

I didn't have a stinkin' clue what they were talking about, and I was treated like I was an idiot because I didn't miraculously know...bunch'a stinkin' jerks they were! LOL!

So, what I've learned has been through a lot of internet searches, a whole lot of trial and error, and the occasional person who would actually help.

I remember what it's like not having a clue what someone means when they say, "You need to cd into  __________, then blah blah blah."

Soooooo...I try to remember that when (and if) I'm able to help someone. Many times, the person may not need the extra information, but I remember what it was like when I just wanted someone to tell me what I needed to do. I don't give a rip for these people who won't answer a question UNLESS the person asking has already searched google or their forums (cough cough Arch for example). Stinkin' google isn't always right, and keywords don't always turn up what you need.

Anyway...I'm still learning myself! LOLOLOLOL!!!

...and if I didn't say stinkin' enough times...here it is again...

stinkin'

...and if I've offended anyone with this post...get a stinkin' backbone.

Hi MiyoLinux

Thank you for your msg concerning Far East languages! I will test it tomorrow as it is to late today! MiyoLinux! As I did not know what it is, I did look at your profile and find this thread.

My last installation (before Devuan) was an ubuntu installation like you describe!

Hi oui! To save space, I didn't give your full quote, but I wanted you to know that I saw your post. Isn't it amazing what can be done with Linux?!?!? Thank you for your input!

To all others, I edited the OP to add another package needed...

upower

...if you want the battery icon to show in your panel.

Thank you for your msg concerning Far East languages! I will test it tomorrow as it is to late today! MiyoLinux! As I did not know what it is, I did look at your profile and find this thread.

My last installation (before Devuan) was an ubuntu installation like you describe!

I did install it directly in Korean language although I don't know that language but only will learn it a bit. I did made an netinstall of Ubuntu as the Ubuntu community supplies a very small netinstall iso based on only two files vmlinux and initrd.img, so that, different from Debian, it yet possible to install after a frugal start from harddisk with those 2 files (not directly from the iso: from the iso, it is also possible, but, depending on the bios settings on your PC, it is possible that BIOS refuses to give you the writing right at installation time, so that you can start the installation but not install and discover this mistake at the end of the installation: nothing did happen! From vmlinuz + initrd.xyz, no problem! But the use of my installation, analog to yours above, did not satisfy me, because, as it was on Korean, I did select cryptage... and making it, the PC is terribly slow (perhaps because I use a main own directory outside of /home/~ ? The PC has to transfer, crypt and decrypt, a lot of long files?).

It was very difficult to find a friendly session manager. Slim goes as well as lightdm. I would have prefer ssdm (was installed in the precedent installation and I was happy as it is very easy to change divers little things). And I did install lxqt. In mixtur with lxde, it was not good.

different of the most users probably, I did install lxqt on jwm! it is perfect as jwm ist alone yet a very complete environment (starts background picture itself, xlm management of tray, easy to add etc direct in a text without a front end that not permit some things; jwm can manage icons if used by it itself, chars and have a clear areal StartupCommand to add directly some commands like setxkbmap ;-) ...

the use of jwm instead of OB is perfectly supported. I did let the bar from LXQT at the bottom and set an minimal tray hidden at the head of the screen, very usefull as menu from Debian does not recognize all installed software (it is analogue in Devuan!) and you can install in seconds an icone for them in the tray of JWM (I did not find the way for all in LXQT; add an item in /usr/share/application and draw it in the bar from LXQT did not work for all! I have yet the problem today in Devuan Jessie: I actually use Seamonkey, Midori, Luakit and Xombrero. Only luakit appear in the Debian menu made in /etc/jwm/debian.menu ! But it is so easy to add items in JWM, as well in the /etc/jwm/system.jwmrc as in the tray...).

as I prefer in all cases rox-filer, i think about the eventuality to use it directly as session manager, or, as puppy-linux makes, in combination with jwm, as it is possible to get the prepared debian menu in /etc/jwm but there is no adequate correspondent thing for rox as rox and Debian systems are not really loving reciprocally (perhaps it would be possible to use ratpoison: combined with menu + 9menu, ratpoison can manage both menu and transmit to other session managers! but as far I know, it can not offer a background picture without some help like feh etc. ... it great force is don't to need some mouse at all, of course. and also to be very small).

for restart:

CMD+ALT+F1
after that CMD+ALT+DEL ;-)

shutdown -h now, of course in terminal.

editor: nano! nano does not need some defined row lenght, different from the most CLI editors! and pressing the wheel, you can port marked text from nano to other application else if they are graphic mode applications (but the mouse emulator for cdo line as to be installed of course!

different from sc, nano writes in commando line complexe fonts like hangul, and can interact with them also in graphic mode!

I hate to say this, but I've found my new daily driver, and it has replaced my own MiyoLinux. big_smile  yikes  smile

I 'deserted' a while back to Vuu-Do, Mr GreenJeans & I seem to like the same simple system.

(But you started the ball rolling with Openbox. )

Maybe I should have started a Confessional thread? LOLOLOL!!!