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#1 2018-07-15 17:05:39

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

I've just made a simulation today. I backed up the old Debian Jessie sources and replaced them with Devuan Jessie as described here:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev … -to-jessie

deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged jessie main
deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main
deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main
deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main

I did:

# apt-get update
# apt-get install devuan-keyring
# apt-get update

If I type:

$ apt-search iambic

On Debian Jessie, I get:

$ apt-search iambic
cwirc - X-Chat morse plugin

But with Devuan Jessie sources the output is null. However cwirc is available:
https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ase=jessie

I wonder if there is something lost in translation from Debian to Devuan.

Last edited by Ottavio (2018-07-15 17:06:21)

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#2 2018-07-15 18:22:16

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Can anybody running Devuan Jessie run:

apt-cache search iambic

post their output please?

Thanks.

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#3 2018-07-15 18:32:14

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,183  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

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#4 2018-07-15 19:20:40

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

golinux wrote:

Well then why do I get this result on my system?

EDIT: could this be the clue?

oc@e130 ~ $ apt-cache search iambic
cwirc - X-Chat morse plugin
oc@e130 ~ $ apt search iambic

So 'apt-cache search' finds it but not 'apt search'?

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#5 2018-07-15 19:24:47

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,183  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

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#6 2018-07-15 19:27:36

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

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#7 2018-07-15 19:31:27

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,183  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Riiiight . . . pulled in by amprolla and available via a redirect to the devuan repos . . .  smile

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#8 2018-07-15 19:53:06

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

golinux wrote:

Riiiight . . . pulled in by amprolla and available via a redirect to the devuan repos . . .  smile

OK! What does it mean?

The reason for my post is: Is there anything broken in Devuan's package (and cache) management?

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#9 2018-07-15 20:31:44

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,183  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Ottavio wrote:
golinux wrote:

Riiiight . . . pulled in by amprolla and available via a redirect to the devuan repos . . .  smile

OK! What does it mean?

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3   Debian packages pulled in to devuan this way should be identical.   However some data may be truncated to limit bandwidth.  That's way beyond my skillset.

The reason for my post is: Is there anything broken in Devuan's package (and cache) management?

There's always room for improvement.  Just a few weeks ago we discovered that amprolla was wrongfully banning a package for systemd dependencies.  If you think you have found a bug, please report it to bugs.devuan.org.

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#10 2018-07-16 10:51:59

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 796  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

apt-cache search iambic

On my devuan jessie amd64 that has all devuan and debian repos enabled, the command returns with cwirc as the relevant package.

On my devuan jessie i386 that only has devuan jessie repos enabled, the above command returns nothing, but apt-cache search cwirc does show the package.

CAVEAT: Do not use debian repos in your sources.list. The only reason I get away with doing that is because I don't install or upgrade anthing.

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#11 2018-07-16 13:16:35

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

fsmithred wrote:

apt-cache search iambic

On my devuan jessie amd64 that has all devuan and debian repos enabled, the command returns with cwirc as the relevant package.

On my devuan jessie i386 that only has devuan jessie repos enabled, the above command returns nothing, but apt-cache search cwirc does show the package.

CAVEAT: Do not use debian repos in your sources.list. The only reason I get away with doing that is because I don't install or upgrade anthing.

But if the debian and devuan repos are pretty much identical, why does the pure devuan installation not return a valid keyword search? I would have imagined that the cwirc is identical to both repos, therefore it should return positive to the keyword "iambic".

I don't mean to be pedantic here. I just worry that there is something broken in the import process. I haven't tried other keywords, but before migrating to devuan I want to be sure I won't lose functionalities.

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#12 2018-07-16 13:45:04

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Hi all,

some more information. On my LMDE2 (Debian Jessie):

oc@e130 ~ $ apt-cache search keyer
tlf - console based ham radio contest logger
tucnak2 - VHF/UHF/SHF Hamradio contest log version 2
xcwcp - Morse code tutor - graphical user interface
oc@e130 ~ $ apt search keyer
oc@e130 ~ $ aptitude search keyer
oc@e130 ~ $                              

Is it possible that the 'apt-cache' in Devuan is not exactly the same as in Debian Jessie?

I believe 'apt search' and 'aptitude search' only search with the package name but 'apt-cache search' also search in the full description?

I wouldn't think so, but I'd like to understand where the discrepancies come from.

On my system:

oc@e130 ~ $ dpkg -S usr/bin/apt-cache
apt: /usr/bin/apt-cache
oc@e130 ~ $ apt-cache policy apt
apt:
  Installed: 1.0.9.8.4
  Candidate: 1.0.9.8.4
  Version table:
 *** 1.0.9.8.4 0
        500 ftp://mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.debian.org/debian/ jessie/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

Last edited by Ottavio (2018-07-16 13:45:30)

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#13 2018-07-16 16:59:16

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Here you go. Bug found:
https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/issues/75

Package long descriptions missing

Synaptic, 'aptitude show' and 'apt-cache show' will show the long description only for packages that have been modified by devuan. All other packages have the short description.

After a fresh install, this behavior does not begin until the first update of the package cache. Before that, long descriptions are available for all packages.

EDIT: I've submitted a bug report to     submit@bugs.devuan.org

Last edited by Ottavio (2018-07-16 17:24:26)

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#14 2018-07-16 17:44:08

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,183  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

That bug was supposedly fixed in amprolla 3 some time ago.  From earlier today:

<golinux> parazyd: KatolaZ: A report of inconsistency between debian and devuan presentation of apt-cache and apt-search here: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2231
<KatolaZ> golinux: this is known
<golinux> I thought we fixed that.
<KatolaZ> I thought we did, indeed

Maybe hash this out on #devuan at freenode where those more familiar with amprolla hang out.

Ah, I see you just posted a bug.  Excellent.

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#15 2018-07-17 08:23:39

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

I see here:
https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=228


this is known, and is due to the fact that package descriptions are
now mwintained in separate Translation files. This should be fixed in
the future, by adding support fot Translations in amprolla3.

This should be marked as critical. I cannot believe that a release is marked as 'stable', yet has no support for translation files. The functionality of the distro is severely handicapped. I really want to like this project but at this stage I can only regard it as an unfinished experiment. Releasing a distro as 'stable' means it is ready for production. It is not.

Last edited by Ottavio (2018-07-17 08:25:35)

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#16 2018-07-18 11:15:46

Chanku
Moderator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 28  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Ottavio wrote:

I see here:
https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=228


this is known, and is due to the fact that package descriptions are
now mwintained in separate Translation files. This should be fixed in
the future, by adding support fot Translations in amprolla3.

This should be marked as critical. I cannot believe that a release is marked as 'stable', yet has no support for translation files. The functionality of the distro is severely handicapped. I really want to like this project but at this stage I can only regard it as an unfinished experiment. Releasing a distro as 'stable' means it is ready for production. It is not.

The issue isn't an issue that would prevent something from going 'stable', it's an infrastructure issue on the back-end. I would argue Devuan Stable (and Old Stable) (ASCII and Jessie respectively) is, in fact, ready for production. This issue will, hopefully, be fixed soon enough though. Additionally if you want I am pretty sure amprolla3 is FOSS software, so you could modify it and submit a fix yourself if you are willing to do so.

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#17 2018-07-18 12:54:06

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 24  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

Chanku wrote:

The issue isn't an issue that would prevent something from going 'stable', it's an infrastructure issue on the back-end. I would argue Devuan Stable (and Old Stable) (ASCII and Jessie respectively) is, in fact, ready for production. This issue will, hopefully, be fixed soon enough though.

We'll have to agree to disagree. What you mean is that Devuan is usable but ready for production in my book means having all the expected functionalities. Not having full description for packages severely limits the functionality of the OS.

Chanku wrote:

Additionally if you want I am pretty sure amprolla3 is FOSS software, so you could modify it and submit a fix yourself if you are willing to do so.

But... is it the right thing to do? Wouldn't it be just easier to:

- launch a net installer fetching packages straight from Debian
- import a blacklist of packages
- tell the installer not to fetch and install the blacklisted packages
- provide workarounds with scripts

EDIT: I'm not saying this is easy, but it is logically simpler.

Is this what Amprolla is supposed to do?

Last edited by Ottavio (2018-07-18 12:55:13)

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#18 2018-07-18 14:59:56

KatolaZ
Member
Registered: 2017-03-11
Posts: 36  

Re: apt-cache search: returns null while populated using Debian sources

The main issue with Translations (and the reason why they have not been already included in the repos, as I have explained in my reply on git.devuan.org) is that there is very scarce and incomplete documentation on Debian's side about how those files and the corresponding indices are created and maintained. We have been studying the problem a bit, but there have been far more important issues to handle than providing a search of packages based on full descriptions, and we have prioritised the actions that have the largest impact (like for instance making sure that people can migrate their potentially mission-critical servers to Devuan without major distruptions...).

I perfectly understand that something can seem "logically simpler" from the very personal perspective of each single user, but maintaining a stable and dependable distribution, that meets the needs of dozens different use cases, is not just about circulating a bunch of hacks for people to test at their own risk.

If you believe that Devuan does not meet your standards, you are not forced to use it. If you are willing to help Devuan meet your standards, you are more than welcome to do so. If you have a concrete proposal about including Translations in the repos, please send patches to amprolla3 at https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3

I can just say that we will try to solve the problem, but this is not the top priority at the moment.

HND

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