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#1 2018-07-11 08:40:20

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 18  

Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Former NetBSD user here. I tried to run pkgsrc on Centos but it only gave me pain. Devuan (systemd aside) seems to be based on some sort of minimalism.

If I installed Devuan from scratch, what would be the most minimal installation I could have, just to give me a shell, gcc, essential libraries and networking?

And another question. Is OpenRC similar to NetBSD rc init?

Last edited by Ottavio (2018-07-11 08:40:38)

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#2 2018-07-11 10:27:58

Panopticon
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Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 99  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

I don't think it would be a good idea to use a NetBSD package management system on linux, let alone devuan. Im pretty sure apt has it all covered for building from source if that is the way you want to do it.

The netinstall would be the way to go to get to a minimal install, just dont select a desktop environment in the installer.

https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devu … aller-iso/

Cant really comment on openrc vs rc init but im pretty sure the devuan openrc would be built for devuan so there would have to be some major differences in the way both work considering bsd's differs from linux in my experience.

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#3 2018-07-11 22:57:55

ivanovnegro
Member
Registered: 2018-05-15
Posts: 35  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

I agree with Panopticon.

Ottavio wrote:

Devuan (systemd aside) seems to be based on some sort of minimalism.

I see nothing special here. It is just like Debian sans systemd as you already know. How 'minimal' you want to go is your own choice.

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#4 2018-07-12 01:20:03

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,098  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

How minimal also depends on your choice of iso.   The minimal-live would be very basic.

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#5 2018-07-12 06:54:02

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 18  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

ivanovnegro wrote:

I agree with Panopticon.

Ottavio wrote:

Devuan (systemd aside) seems to be based on some sort of minimalism.

I see nothing special here. It is just like Debian sans systemd as you already know. How 'minimal' you want to go is your own choice.

golinux wrote:

How minimal also depends on your choice of iso.   The minimal-live would be very basic.

It's been some time since I used pkgsrc but based on the guides:

http://cdn.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/curren … ADME.Linux

and:

https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_u … /#index2h1

all I need is:


    gcc (and libstdc++)
    libncurses-devel
    zlib and zlib-devel
    openssl-devel (optional but required for some packages)
    libudev-dev (optional but required for some packages)

+ a bare minimum of a network running.

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#6 2018-07-12 07:57:22

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 168  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Ottavio wrote:

And another question. Is OpenRC similar to NetBSD rc init?

You can install openrc in NetBSD - if that answers your question?  In Linux you'd probably want to install it from the "base" system's package manager.

I recently found out about this from a post on the FreeBSD forums: http://www.ravenports.com/

Looks like a new and interesting alternative to pkgsrc.  Sadly the latter never really gained traction and one of the few adopters outside of the NetBSD project, DragonFly BSD, abandoned using it as it's official ports system several years ago.  The only OS I can think of outside of NetBSD still using it is MINIX 3.

Panopticon wrote:

I don't think it would be a good idea to use a NetBSD package management system on linux, let alone devuan.

pkgsrc is a multi-platform "ports" framework for many types of *nix.  Packages compiled via pkgsrc don't install to the same locations or in any way impact the "base" operating system, by design.

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#7 2018-07-12 08:22:00

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 99  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Thanks for clearing that up cynwulf. Im not on devuan at present but is netbsd pkgsrc available via devuan repos or something that would need to be installed ad hoc?

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#8 2018-07-13 08:19:38

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 18  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Panopticon wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up cynwulf. Im not on devuan at present but is netbsd pkgsrc available via devuan repos or something that would need to be installed ad hoc?

No, you download the framework via cvs or git, then you build the essential tools from source (bootstrap), then start building the applications you need. It's completely transparent to the host package management. You can run it as non root or root.

More info here:
http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/curren … kgsrc.html
https://wiki.netbsd.org/pkgsrc/how_to_u … _on_linux/
http://cdn.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/curren … ADME.Linux

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#9 2018-07-13 10:50:57

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 99  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

So what would be the advantage of pkgsrc over devuan/debian package management? Wouldn't it be more prudent to use apt capability when building from source and keep it in house?

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#10 2018-07-13 11:12:14

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 168  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

The advantage may be the ability to use newer software than is provided in the Debian repositories and also being able to fine tune builds, etc.

I can't speak for Ottavio, but it may be just a preference or an interesting experiment.

While debianising source and building deb packages is ok for the odd package or backport, it's not really a rival to pkgsrc or the various *BSD ports systems.

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#11 2018-07-13 13:01:45

M0E-lnx
Member
Registered: 2018-06-27
Posts: 7  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

I have tinkered with pkgsrc in the past, but not on devuan (yet)

I dont see why it wouldn't work just like any other system.

Something i'd reeeaaaallly be interested in is building a linux base using pkgsrc... that'd be an interesting project.

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#12 2018-07-13 13:19:01

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 18  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Panopticon wrote:

So what would be the advantage of pkgsrc over devuan/debian package management? Wouldn't it be more prudent to use apt capability when building from source and keep it in house?

There's no advantage. It's just:

cynwulf wrote:

but it may be just a preference or an interesting experiment.

And:

M0E-lnx wrote:

I have tinkered with pkgsrc in the past, but not on devuan (yet)

I dont see why it wouldn't work just like any other system.

Something i'd reeeaaaallly be interested in is building a linux base using pkgsrc... that'd be an interesting project.

If you're really motivated, we could join forces. I have little time and I'm not really skilled, but I've been wanting to try something like that.

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#13 2018-07-13 13:49:48

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 99  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Its just interesting or a preference maybe but im not sold on it. Seems like a waste of bandwidth.

Can you tell me of any advantages using pkgsrc over apt?

Last edited by Panopticon (2018-07-13 13:51:49)

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#14 2018-07-13 14:30:04

cynwulf
Member
Registered: 2017-10-09
Posts: 168  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Panopticon wrote:

Its just interesting or a preference maybe but im not sold on it. Seems like a waste of bandwidth.

I'm not entirely sure who's bandwidth it would be wasting...?

One could say that 90% of Debian use is a "waste of bandwidth" as much of it is from hobbyists running testing or unstable and not really contributing anything.  The same goes for Arch Linux and Gentoo use, to name but two others...

Panopticon wrote:

Can you tell me of any advantages using pkgsrc over apt?

As someone who admitted to not really knowing what pkgsrc is earlier in this thread, you seem very intent on dismissing it out of hand?

The obvious advantage is that you might be able to compile and run software which is not available in the Debian/Devuan repositories.  You will also get control over the build system, be able to set compile flags, to avoid unwanted dependencies such as avahi, pulseaudio, udisks2 upower, dbus, etc - a clear advantage over binary package management.

Last edited by cynwulf (2018-07-13 14:31:36)

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#15 2018-07-13 15:43:30

Ottavio
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 18  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Pkgsrc actually uses less bandwidth in a sense, because the tarballs are fetched directly from upstream sources rather than one specific distribution.

What is true instead is that it definitely uses more CPU power as all packages are compiled from source, including dependencies.

To be fair the pkgsrc core group doesn't seem to be interested in making all packages working on other platforms than NetBSD and this is understandable. Pre built binaries are available for Centos.

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#16 Yesterday 00:24:33

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 99  

Re: Does anybody run (or has thought of running) NetBSD pkgsrc on Devuan?

Im not trying to dismiss it cynwulf, just trying to get a better understanding of it. I will have to give it a try and see if i can use it on devuan. I would be more inclined to use Netbsd which has it pre packaged but i suppose using devuan linux stable might be better as it has more up to date kernels and packages perhaps? My posts are more curiosity than anything else, apologies if they came over negative or dismissive. What i said about bandwidth was just that the way i see it is what can pkgsrc do that apt cant which has been answered so thanks for that. I was always of the thought that one could use apt src to be build packages from upstream as well though but only debianized packages, so this pkgsrc can build non debianized from upstream, so that would be one of its advantages over apt-src.

Last edited by Panopticon (Yesterday 00:33:45)

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