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#1 2019-03-11 06:32:24

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Hello everyone; I hope you all are doing well.

Due to my utmost respect to Devuan and the VUAs, fsmithred and Refracta, the Devuan community, and the users who have given MiyoLinux a try, I feel that I must notify you that I have decided to stop the development of MiyoLinux.

This decision didn't come lightly, and I've thought long and hard about it. I will try to explain this as quickly as possible...

Recently, MiyoLinux appeared on the DistroWatch waiting list. yikes

I don't know who submitted it; all that I know is that it wasn't me...I have never had any intention nor desire to submit MiyoLinux to DistroWatch; in fact, I didn't want to be listed on DistroWatch. smile tongue

I rarely visit DistroWatch, and had people not congratulated me on MiyoLinux being added, I wouldn't have found out about it as soon as I did.

After learning of its appearance there, I contacted DistroWatch, explained the situation, and had it removed. Many thanks to Jesse Smith of DistroWatch. He seems to be a really nice guy with a good sense of humor.

If anyone is wondering, during all of this, I found out that anyone can submit a distribution as long as they can provide the requested information required by DistroWatch.

While DistroWatch was very helpful, understanding, and quick to help me rectify the situation, the fact remained that I still had to jump through some hoops just to get MiyoLinux removed from the waiting list...when I wasn't the one who submitted it.

The submission incident wasn't really the issue that led to my decision; however, because of that incident, it made me seriously start considering other possible scenarios. I realize that this is hypothetical, but I fear that if a major situation were to arise over MiyoLinux, I don't have the time nor resources to have to jump through those hoops. While that may be hypothetical, I'm not willing to take the chance...

It has been my honor to make MiyoLinux, and I thank those who have used it...thank you for allowing me to be a part of your life. I realize that this announcement will cause people to "jump ship", but I want to assure you that you don't have to. MiyoLinux only uses the Devuan repositories, so while you may be using MiyoLinux, you're actually using Devuan.

Thank you again for everything. This has been one of the great joys of my life.

Respectfully,
MiyoLinux

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2019-03-11 06:40:03)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#2 2019-03-11 08:04:18

darry1966
Member
Registered: 2017-06-14
Posts: 55  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Hi Miyo,

I am very sorry to hear about your decision to stop Miyo Linux - it was a beautiful distro to use when I used it. 

I want to wish the best for the future and hope you stick around the forums.

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#3 2019-03-11 08:58:05

w3
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 18  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

This is bas News.

After Chrunchbang, Myio was the best distro with openBox that I have ever tested.

I think you need to review your decision. There's a lot of people out there who love their work.

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#4 2019-03-11 13:02:25

catprints
Member
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 133  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Given the fine examples you have provided and the fact that they have been based on Devuan we have benefited from your work
greatly and I expect to see you here "lol"ing as usual. Oftentimes sharing great ideas is as good as being the one to implement them.imho
No need to be producing product to be a friend.

Last edited by catprints (2019-03-11 13:05:21)


"The obstacle is the path."

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#5 2019-03-11 13:13:02

Panopticon
Member
Registered: 2018-01-27
Posts: 306  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Sad to see you stop Miyo. Have to agree with you in regards to user submitted distros to distrowatch, it should only be the creator/maintainer who should be able to submit and whoever did submit yours should of had the common decency to let you know about it.

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#6 2019-03-11 15:37:08

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 199  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

I hope you will reconsider. If it wasn't for Miyo, I probably wouldn't be using Devuan at all.

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#7 2019-03-11 16:24:11

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,675  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

This makes me really sad.  I also hope that you will reconsider your decision.  Devuan without MIYO is just unthinkable!!

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#8 2019-03-11 18:37:07

w3
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 18  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

I'm on the same page myself. If it wasn't for Myio maybe I wouldn't be using Devuan. Myio Modern is just fantastic.

Here in my little one I have converted several users to Linux, thanks to Myio. They look great and perform much better than Windows 10.

Many friends who used to use Windows, now use Linux thanks to their work done in front of Myio.

I have a suggestion that goes to the opposite of your desire. I propose that all users who like Miyo come together to make it bigger along with its creator.

This is a tough time, this is when big things come up.

We can use collective funding to raise funds. I'm sure many of them will collaborate.

As for the person who submitted Miyo to Distrowatch, I think they didn't mean any harm, they just wanted to publicize the great work you've been doing and how much Miyo is a great customization of Devuan.

I think it's time for Miyo to go further. Don't end your trajectory. Long live Miyo.

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#9 2019-03-11 21:57:23

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

First let me say thank you to all of you...I wasn't expecting all of that.

Second, the fact that someone added MiyoLinux to DistroWatch isn't my issue. I was actually honored that someone thought enough of Miyo to put it there...even though I didn't want it there. tongue smile

Next, the problem isn't with funds that are needed or anything like that...the only cost that I incur is the periodic purchase of a USB. big_smile

My issue is this...when I saw how easy it was for someone else to add MiyoLinux to DistroWatch without consulting me (and again, I really don't have a problem with that), it made me realize how easily other things could possibly happen. Despite MiyoLinux having a license, people can still seek possible legal ramifications whether it's right for them to do so or not. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't understand all of the legal intricacies of things like this. I remember when Chromixium had to change their name because Google had a hissy-fit that it was too close of a name to their Chrome operating system. Good grief...get a stinkin' backbone Chrome! LOLOLOLOL!!!

I don't have the time if someone came after me (I work basically 7 days a week...I'm "off" on Sundays, but I'm not really off, because I still have to work a while on Sundays). I don't have the finances to hire a lawyer if someone came after me. I don't know how much I'm truly protected by any license, and if I am protected, that doesn't mean someone can't still push it...and cause me to lose time at work and money for legalities.

I know how that sounds, and I know that chances are that something like that will probably never happen...but then again...I never thought MiyoLinux would be on DistroWatch. tongue

Thank you, and I truly mean that.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#10 2019-03-12 01:52:02

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 199  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

It doesn't sound like we changed your mind. sad  But I understand your reasons. It's a shame. Well, it'll give me the incentive when ascii is end of life to try Exe/GNU Linux.

Thanks for all you do, and did, MiyoLinux!

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#11 2019-03-12 09:37:35

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Ron wrote:

It doesn't sound like we changed your mind. sad  But I understand your reasons. It's a shame. Well, it'll give me the incentive when ascii is end of life to try Exe/GNU Linux.

Thanks for all you do, and did, MiyoLinux!

Thank you for using MiyoLinux Ron. I think I can honestly say that to my knowledge...you (above all others) truly did "make it your own". smile

I guess that I should say that I have been working on one last release for the last few weeks...

A user wanted to have an Openbox/Compiz system. I've never used Compiz before...ever. It sounded interesting and like a good challenge since Compiz doesn't actually work on Openbox, so I told him that I'd see what I could do. It has definitely been a challenge. tongue 

I think I'm getting close. If I do succeed in this, I probably won't upload it to Sourceforge. I may upload it to OSDN, or I might upload it to another site.

Wherever I put it, I'll go ahead and post it here on the forum just in case anyone is interested.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#12 2019-03-12 09:43:48

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

w3 wrote:

I'm on the same page myself. If it wasn't for Myio maybe I wouldn't be using Devuan. Myio Modern is just fantastic.

Here in my little one I have converted several users to Linux, thanks to Myio. They look great and perform much better than Windows 10.

Many friends who used to use Windows, now use Linux thanks to their work done in front of Myio.

I have a suggestion that goes to the opposite of your desire. I propose that all users who like Miyo come together to make it bigger along with its creator.

This is a tough time, this is when big things come up.

We can use collective funding to raise funds. I'm sure many of them will collaborate.

As for the person who submitted Miyo to Distrowatch, I think they didn't mean any harm, they just wanted to publicize the great work you've been doing and how much Miyo is a great customization of Devuan.

I think it's time for Miyo to go further. Don't end your trajectory. Long live Miyo.

Thank you w3...that's incredibly humbling to know. Thank you for sharing that. I never imagined anything like that.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#13 2019-03-13 05:46:37

darry1966
Member
Registered: 2017-06-14
Posts: 55  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Running your lovely Awesome version absolutlely lovely.

Last edited by darry1966 (2019-03-13 05:48:06)

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#14 2019-03-13 09:18:29

stroudmw
Member
From: Johannesburg
Registered: 2018-05-25
Posts: 43  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

I'm really sad to hear that! Thanks for the help you have given me over the months.

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#15 2019-03-13 11:38:21

KatolaZ
Member
Registered: 2017-03-11
Posts: 79  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

MiyoLinux wrote:

First let me say thank you to all of you...I wasn't expecting all of that.

Second, the fact that someone added MiyoLinux to DistroWatch isn't my issue. I was actually honored that someone thought enough of Miyo to put it there...even though I didn't want it there. tongue smile

Next, the problem isn't with funds that are needed or anything like that...the only cost that I incur is the periodic purchase of a USB. big_smile

My issue is this...when I saw how easy it was for someone else to add MiyoLinux to DistroWatch without consulting me (and again, I really don't have a problem with that), it made me realize how easily other things could possibly happen. Despite MiyoLinux having a license, people can still seek possible legal ramifications whether it's right for them to do so or not. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't understand all of the legal intricacies of things like this. I remember when Chromixium had to change their name because Google had a hissy-fit that it was too close of a name to their Chrome operating system. Good grief...get a stinkin' backbone Chrome! LOLOLOLOL!!!

I don't have the time if someone came after me (I work basically 7 days a week...I'm "off" on Sundays, but I'm not really off, because I still have to work a while on Sundays). I don't have the finances to hire a lawyer if someone came after me. I don't know how much I'm truly protected by any license, and if I am protected, that doesn't mean someone can't still push it...and cause me to lose time at work and money for legalities.

I know how that sounds, and I know that chances are that something like that will probably never happen...but then again...I never thought MiyoLinux would be on DistroWatch. tongue

Thank you, and I truly mean that.

Hi MiyoLinux,

I simply think you should just take it easy and sleep on it :-)

It is your decision to do whatever you want with MIYO, but please keep in mind just one thing: once you have released something in the open, it does not belong to you any more, really. This is not just valid for MIYO, but for any distro and any software distributed with a FLOSS License. And, believe me, this is a very good thing. The fact that somebody submitted MIYO to Distrowatch just means that they thought it belonged in the list of currently used distros. Fullstop. There is no legal ramification, or obligation, or long-term commitment needed on your side, or hard work to face. It's just part of the game: anything released to the community, belongs to the community, and the community will shape it like it wants, will bring it where it likes, sometimes in surprisingly unexpected and creative ways. When something belongs to the community, everything benefits from it but noone exclusively owns it any more. When something belongs to the community, the community is responsible for its life.

Think of what Ian Murdock did with those few dozens of GNU packages: he took them, and tranformed them into Debian. Debian is Ian's creation, but it never belonged to him. This is exactly what the VUAs did with Debian: they took it and tranformed it into Devuan, and still Devuan is not VUAs' own thing. This is exactly what you did with Devuan: you took it, and you tranformed it into MIYO, and still MIYO is not just about MiyoLinux. This continuous process of creation, distribution, appropriation, modification, improvement, redistribution, re-appropropriation, etc is the true essence of the FLOSS community. Losing ownership of your own creature is actually the sign that you have contributed something useful, and the only way to guarantee its existence.

So just please sleep over it, and take it easy. This is all just a game, after all. If you eventually decide to drop MIYO, at least consider the possibility of releasing the development tools you have been using. Someone out there might be willing to take over where you left, and you would be probably surprised in seeing how far they are willing to go ;-)

HND

KatolaZ

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#16 2019-03-13 18:05:50

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Thank you KatolaZ.

Perhaps I'm not saying things correctly?

I have no issue with MiyoLinux being released and used for whatever purpose a user decides. I have a github page and a small website that offers the items that I use in MiyoLinux. I have each one licensed...not as GPL2 or GPL3...they all are licensed as Public Domain. So, I hope that shows that my issue isn't with freedom. smile

I have no issue with MiyoLinux being submitted to DistroWatch...however...that incident made me start considering other scenarios. It's not that I want to protect MiyoLinux from being used freely by others. My concern is how am I personally protected by any of the FOSS licenses if a user decides they want to seek legal action against me for whatever reason.

If I put a disclaimer saying that MiyoLinux comes with no warranty and I'm not responsible for any issues if they install it...will that be enough to actually protect me legally?

I know that makes me look a little bit nutty, but I've never thought about these things before.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#17 2019-03-13 19:36:29

darry1966
Member
Registered: 2017-06-14
Posts: 55  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Well I can only give you the example of Puppy Linux where Barry Kauler has copy righted the name of Puppy Linux example but you are free of course to use Puppy to remaster as you please,  If you do a remaster and it is a pupplet (not an official release) you can't go calling it Puppy Linux instead calling something pup instead or another name.

My point is this protect the name Miyo and as for harm caused by using it you have covered yourself by saying "MiyoLinux comes with no warranty and I'm not responsible for any issues caused by using this software"

I would also put damage in there as well.

So protect the name so no-one can steal it and no one can go you for using the name Miyo Linux when you have used it first,

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#18 2019-03-13 19:42:57

siva
Member
Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 204  
Website

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Miyo,

You've contributed way more than I think you'll admit.  Your project was a huge inspiration for my own.  (Not to mention it was way more aesthetically pleasing and user-friendly).  Thank you.

The thing I loved most about the Miyo project is literally the acronym itself: "make it your own."  And I love that phrase, because it's not an operating system derivative.  It's an approach.  There's a philosophy somewhere in it.

Pinky-swear you'll stick around the forums.


the thomos project
thomos support thread
cynwulf wrote: "You should get some more sleep and spend less time on forums."

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#19 2019-03-13 21:24:49

ChuangTzu
Member
Registered: 2018-06-13
Posts: 136  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Miyo, referense Debian's "Warranty"....https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch01.en.html

The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
permitted by applicable law.

then just add something to protect the name Miyo Linux as someone else mentioned.  Similar to how you can't use Debian, *buntu etc... without express written permission, license etc....

PS: openSUSE has a much longer license full of legaleze, since they have a corporate backer....https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:License

PSS: or my personal favorite: http://www.wtfpl.net/

Last edited by ChuangTzu (2019-03-13 21:28:01)

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#20 2019-03-13 22:36:49

KatolaZ
Member
Registered: 2017-03-11
Posts: 79  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

MiyoLinux wrote:

Thank you KatolaZ.

Perhaps I'm not saying things correctly?

I have no issue with MiyoLinux being released and used for whatever purpose a user decides. I have a github page and a small website that offers the items that I use in MiyoLinux. I have each one licensed...not as GPL2 or GPL3...they all are licensed as Public Domain. So, I hope that shows that my issue isn't with freedom. smile

I never intended to judge you. Rather the opposite. Sorry of my message could be interpreted in that way: it was definitely unintentional on my side.


MiyoLinux wrote:

I have no issue with MiyoLinux being submitted to DistroWatch...however...that incident made me start considering other scenarios. It's not that I want to protect MiyoLinux from being used freely by others. My concern is how am I personally protected by any of the FOSS licenses if a user decides they want to seek legal action against me for whatever reason.

If I put a disclaimer saying that MiyoLinux comes with no warranty and I'm not responsible for any issues if they install it...will that be enough to actually protect me legally?

I know that makes me look a little bit nutty, but I've never thought about these things before.

If you have put the "no-warranty" disclaimer everywhere, you will be fine (not fined! tongue). I cannot remember a single distribution whose creators have been sued by a big corp for whatever reason. You are not doing anything illegal, and the "no-warranty" disclaimer saves your ass anyway, and in 98% of the countries around the world ;-)

I will stop here though, since the decision is yours. It has been great to have you on board. Thanks.

HND

KatolaZ

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#21 2019-03-14 08:50:50

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

KatolaZ wrote:

I never intended to judge you. Rather the opposite. Sorry of my message could be interpreted in that way: it was definitely unintentional on my side.

If you have put the "no-warranty" disclaimer everywhere, you will be fine (not fined! tongue). I cannot remember a single distribution whose creators have been sued by a big corp for whatever reason. You are not doing anything illegal, and the "no-warranty" disclaimer saves your ass anyway, and in 98% of the countries around the world ;-)

I will stop here though, since the decision is yours. It has been great to have you on board. Thanks.

HND

KatolaZ

Thank you KatolaZ. I didn't think you were judging me. smile

For the time being, I have placed the following on both my Sourceforge and OSDN pages while I think all of this over. Thank you.

The software is provided "as is", without warranty of any kind, express or implied, including but not limited to the warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and noninfringement. In no event shall the authors or copyright holders be liable for any claim, damages or other liability, whether in an action of contract, tort or otherwise, arising from, out of or in connection with the software or the use or other dealings in the software.


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#22 2019-03-14 09:52:47

darry1966
Member
Registered: 2017-06-14
Posts: 55  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Very good Miyo - very well worded.

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#23 2019-03-15 11:59:54

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

darry1966 wrote:

Very good Miyo - very well worded.

Thanks darry1966; however, I can't take credit for it...that paragraph is included as part of the license that I use for MiyoLinux. It's in all capital letters on the license. I didn't want people to think I was a jerk and yelling at them, so I wrote it normally for the places where I'm posting it. LOLOLOL! tongue. I hadn't even looked at my license since first choosing it a few years ago...So it turns out that I've been protected all this time and didn't realize it. tongue. Lesson learned...the hard way. Still, I feel better having that section posted in plain sight.

Thanks for the compliment about Miyo-Awesome. I truly appreciate that. That thing was a bugger to produce! yikes   smile


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#24 2019-03-15 14:41:43

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 105  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

MiyoLinux wrote:

I don't have the time if someone came after me (I work basically 7 days a week...I'm "off" on Sundays, but I'm not really off, because I still have to work a while on Sundays). I don't have the finances to hire a lawyer if someone came after me..

I understand you live in the US. If so, I am sorry for you. How can you live and fear it all the time? Is it such as the freedom of America all heard? You have not done anything illegal, but you are still afraid? What a strange thing, your American society ... some kind of a conclager, not freedom ...Living in eternal fear is probably unbearable ...

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#25 2019-03-15 16:09:30

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 910  

Re: Announcement Regarding MiyoLinux

Ogis1975 wrote:

I understand you live in the US. If so, I am sorry for you. How can you live and fear it all the time? Is it such as the freedom of America all heard? You have not done anything illegal, but you are still afraid? What a strange thing, your American society ... some kind of a conclager, not freedom ...Living in eternal fear is probably unbearable ...

Hi Ogis. I believe you misunderstood my use of the word "fear".

For example, if I were to say this...

Hi Ogis. I fear that you misunderstood my use of the word "fear".

...that doesn't mean that I'm living in a constant state of distress and anxiety. It simply means that I recognized a problem, so I took steps to fix the problem.

I realized there was a problem with how I was perceived by you. So, I've taken steps to fix that problem by trying to explain what I meant.

I may be wrong, but I don't think that's an American thing...I think that's part of human nature. When one recognizes that a problem exists, you do what you can to fix the problem.

I hope that makes sense. smile


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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