Not to mention, even XFCE4 and MATE, LXQT, etc... all are bright and shiny enough as it is. Most DEs have too many linux framework dependencies that aren't reasonable. Even Lumina looks semi flashy, but I could see myself using it at least...

CDE is a bit too dull for me, but I probably will mostly stick to the following:

JWM

Btw, I recently am now using startx to start some of my operating systems with. I have done so in Hyperbola, wondering if the same method works in devuan though.

Does this work for devuan:

        #!/bin/sh
        #
        # ~/.xinitrc
        #
        # Executed by startx (run your window manager from here)
        #
        # exec enlightenment_start
        # exec i3
        # exec awesome
        # exec bspwm
        # exec startfluxbox
        # exec openbox-session
        # exec pekwm
        # exec dwm
        # exec icewm-session
           exec jwm
        # exec notion
        # exec evilwm

And then when I press startx in a logged in user in terminal, it would start?

or adding startx to the bottom of  a .bash_profile  like this:

  GNU nano 5.2                      .bash_profile                      Modified 
#
# ~/.bash_profile
#

[[ -f ~/.bashrc ]] && . ~/.bashrc
startx && exit

Sorry if off topic, just curious.

distrowatch has information, its incomplete, but its not useless.

That is the best thing I can say about distrowatch.

It does have some useful info. The statistics however are meaningless

I normally don't tell this type of a joke, but:

Yo mama's so blue she could pass as a smurf!

If a desktop environment requires some bloated linux framework, systemd, dbus, pulseaudio, pipewire, avahi or smilar, as a dependency that is by definition proof that the maintainers are falling into the trash line-up. The more trash required, the more trash it is.

But that goes without saying.

Come on man, don't be a killjoy.

Its an awesome thread.

What is the favourite book of any serial killer?

A Graphic novel!

I know golinux, that was edited lol.

I was just making a pun for the fun of it.

Backwards? Nah... you would be hearing angels in that case.

Keep in mind, windows is an evil idea to begin with.

;P

Ain't that the truth...

To be fair, I don't think this just of systemd, but also dbus, pulseaudio, pipewire, networkmanager and avahi as well. As for wayland, I will wait to see how OpenBSD responds to it.

If something is needed as a dependency for something because otherwise it won't work, then it should be a dependency.

If this isn't the case, it should always be optional.

I don't know about most xorg as a whole, but xenocara might run rootless. I have no idea... I would have to look it up.

Problem is, xenocara's best features don't work as well on linux.

Pledge and Unveil for example do miles of good for openbsd, but I don't think anyone knows how to make those work in linux without monstrous changes.

Great... more people trying to rustify things that don't need it. (which is 100% of all of it)

The best way to think of rust, is its training wheels for programmers.

If you are a patient and someone says they are a butcher, would you want them to be your doctor?

If programmers use training wheels programming languages, like java, rust, javascript, the web gets screwed up more and more.

Javascript supposedly doesn't require much talent to learn... and then some people wonder why the web is so bloated and insecure...

The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife... 

I would love it if all these imbeciles would stop presuming that rust is a free programming language. It is not, it has trademark restrictions all throughout if you even so much as modify it without their permission.

I dislike people who presume in situations like this alot.

If people don't know how to program in C, effectively, then they shouldn't be coding anywhere where security is a concern. Unless you can use non-idiotproof programming languages.  Java, javsascript and rust are heavily bloated as are a few others. I only recently learned that php is another programming language with similar problems to rust and java.  Apparently php devs dropped the gpl license option and left the bad license intact as the only option.

Rant = Complete

That both makes sense and sounds awful.