Slight OT: But, what kind of ridiculous reasons are they claiming in Debian mailing lists to enforce systemd? Is there someone putting a revolver on their back to enforce systemd? Yeah, most of us know.

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC. Perhaps this is a wakeup call to get more involved . . . .  Devuan is not going anywhere.  Someone from Debian did reach out to us and Devuan devs are now cooperating and contributing to ensure sysvinit functionality in Debian.  Devuan devs are also working actively on runit and openrc.

Glad to hear this. I had been worried reading this thread, until I saw the above quoted post.

golinux wrote:

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC.

I prefer the more modern replacement for these: the forumz

Not trying to dis this wonderful forum but . . . that's a bit like getting details about a project from a youtube channel rather than reading the official FOIA documents.

Indeed! 

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC.

I prefer the more modern replacement for these: teh forumz

Into serious-mode though, Devuan is a great project and I hope it remains alive.  "Devuan: Everything great about Debian without the caustic, antagonistic init system (and with a friendly community)"

I guess none of you are on the Devuan mail lists or IRC.

Santa still hasn't delivered the 100hrs day. :-(
It is on my wishlist for decades.

Good to read.

If Devuan does fade into history and there is only Linux w/systemd (yuck)...

...then maybe there already is a BSD with APT instead of PkgSrc/Ports or someone has proven the Hurd to be useable or the Plan9 developers finally have realised that with a different GUI replacing RIO Plan9 really could be the next major "Unix++".
;-)

We're not there yet.

Stay ommmMMMmmmPtimistic!

Slackware has been around for a very long time and will continue to do so, Devuan seems to be heading in the same trajectory.

I know next to nothing about systemd but... guess we may have to individually take our own steps to avoid "systemdAM-IT"...
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … stallation
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p … stallation
https://appuals.com/remove-systemd-ubuntu-permanently/

Worried,
James
Indiana/USA

systemd is very much akin to ms registry, never really thought of it that way.

I seriously doubt that it's something the Debian crowd wants, just the opposite.
And as long as that Pottering fellow is at the helm, it will stay that way.

Indeed it does.

As I have made clear in other posts, I'm not a developer.
I just have 20+ years of IT work, both at home and in my profession, with a hands on approach to software and hardware save programming anything but simple batch routines.

Systemd in Linux brings back memories of my transition from W3.11 to W95, with the end of *.ini files I understood to the undocumented workings of *the registry*, which took me years to get a minimal hold of as it was constantly changing and going deeper and deeper into the OS with every iteration and as a result, the end of any chance of knowing/controlling what was going on.

The registry in Windows OSs is a virus and I see systemd as nothing more than a registry class virus infecting Linux_land.

There are people both inside and outside IT that actually want this and are quite willing to pay shitloads of money for it to happen.

Call me paranoid but I don't see this MS cozying up to Linux in various ways lately as a coincidence: these things do not happen just because or on a senior manager's whim.
What I do see (YMMV) is systemd being a sort of convergence of Linux with Windows, which will not be good for Linux and may well be its undoing.

But I also think that the options virtue of the Linux world (which has been spread far too thinly, IMO) will one day be its undoing.

Like I wrote once, elsewhere:

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers,

A.

I am very much an opponent of systemd.  I actively seek out and use non-systemd distros.  I've been using PCLinuxOS for quite a few weeks now with much success, but Devuan has a special place in my heart (and on its own hard-disk).

I believe each non-systemd distro is becoming weakened and ends up idle or dying because there seems to be a lack of unity among the remaining non-systemd distros.  If work and plans to 'circle the wagons' hasn't yet started, it should soon, otherwise in the future we'll be forced to use distros with systemd and our freedom to choose will be pretty much gone.

I wish I was a more skilled developer then I'd be on-board.  I just make small utility apps and don't do 'big guy' stuff.  Unfortunately most of the skilled developers out there have been heavily influenced by the pro-systemd crowd and probably don't see much benefit from non-systemd distros.  Many of the things I've read out there show folks' apathy toward the systemd situation.  "What's the big deal?  It works, I don't care" they might say about systemd.  But if you've used as many Linux distros with systemd as I have, you see the mess systemd makes. :'(

I hope, and want, Devuan to succeed.

What would it take to for Devuan to be a stand-alone distro that doesn't require anything from Debian at all?

Hundreds of highly active developers.

I hope there will be more cooperation between Debian and Devuan.
Otherwise too many things are solved by independent teams simultaneously.
That's a waste of energy.

I could use Slackware, but it's just so much easier to configure and update a Debian-based system. Devuan is pretty bare bones when it comes to configuration, yet the only thing I had to manually change when I installed it recently was the order of my sound devices. That's it, for the whole system! Slackware 14.2 on the other hand... I just gave up trying to get X.Org to run properly...

Sorry, my point here is that Debian used to be something special, something ... not Slackware... and now Devuan is what Debian used to be. It's annoying and it's stupid that such a thing had to occur, but it is what it is and think that's the way Devuan should be looked at going forward. If that means having to maintain packages from the software developer's source, well I guess that's what will have to be done, right? That's what Slackware and PCLinuxOS do.

I've never maintained any packages, but I am quite certain that I am capable of doing so. However, I'm sure I don't truly appreciate the scope of such a project and I'm not familiar with the associated commitments of one's time and resources. With that in mind, I'm willing to maintain some part of the system.

So I ask,

What would it take to for Devuan to be a stand-alone distro that doesn't require anything from Debian at all?

Would the end result be basically the same "Debian" we had in Wheezy and prior releases?

Is it worth the effort?

With that last question, I was imagining putting the time into making a Debian-like system using Slackware packages or just joining PCLinuxOS and perhaps making a "stable" release (using the Debian installer) based off their rolling release. I mean, time is after all the ultimate currency; Where's it best spent?

@thezeit . . . I sent you an email.  You might have it blocked

Replied and my email here is now updated.

I got caught in the forum's Tor filter on the first go & switched to an email address I never use.